Pardon Me, But Your Slip Is Showing… aka Mike Rowe v. The Press

originally posted by: seasonal
Keep in mind an engineer already made a faulty furnace.

An engineer didn't make a faulty furnace. A manufacturing company made a faulty part, or more likely a part simply just broke... those types of things happen with machines.

As a society we need a balance of white and blue collar workers.

I distinctly also said that I don't think college should just be job training despite the fact that that's what many use it for. Even if everyone had a doctorate many blue collar jobs and even no skill jobs would still need to be done. I see more value in education than simply being taught how to do a certain job. Whether you're being taught how to mop floors or build rockets it's still just teaching you how to do something over and over as a drone. I take more of the classical approach to education.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: ketsuko

Formal education level is just one way statisticians differentiate demographics. Might as well be offended that they put you in groups of gender, age, race, religion, marital status, and income. Saying someone is "uneducated" IN THIS CONTEXT, simply means they didn't go to college. It doesn't mean or imply that they're stupid, not educable, or anything else... I like Mike Rowe just fine, but I think he's seeing offense where none is intended. Obviously, college isn't the only way to become educated! But the other ways aren't measurable for the purpose of studying demographics.

I think he's being a little *sensitive*...

Sorry Benevolent Heretic that's just bull #;

"uneducated" and "didn't go to college" are in no way are synonymous.

If statisticians where interested in the people who did or did not go to college they would use "non college educated" as that is the term that discribes the group of people they are referring to.


"uneducated" is to "didn't go to college" as "inferior sex" is to "women"

We wouldnt except such a reference toward women nor should we accept it for those who did not attend college.

As a disclaimer I hold several advanced degrees.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: seasonal
Keep in mind an engineer already made a faulty furnace.

An engineer didn't make a faulty furnace. A manufacturing company made a faulty part, or more likely a part simply just broke... those types of things happen with machines.

As a society we need a balance of white and blue collar workers.

I distinctly also said that I don't think college should just be job training despite the fact that that's what many use it for. Even if everyone had a doctorate many blue collar jobs and even no skill jobs would still need to be done. I see more value in education than simply being taught how to do a certain job. Whether you're being taught how to mop floors or build rockets it's still just teaching you how to do something over and over as a drone. I take more of the classical approach to education.

So I guess you are one of them educated peoples that have to defend other educated peoples, because, educated.

I see.

Mike Rowe is talking to "skilled" workers.

Skills demand education in the skill and includes a multitude of other knowledge bases.

Skills don't exist in a vacuum, either, like academics.

I do wish I went into heating and refrigeration tho. lol!

As Frank Zappa once said, "you could make more money as a butcher, so don't you waste your time on me" (Cozmic Debris)

i have over 8 years collage and a electrician that worked to foreman level, EMT, chemical plant operations technician. manual Machinist, underground miner to mine superintendent level. and skilled and worked every job in my last gold mine from nipper to superintendent.
(its really hard to BS the boss if he can and has done your job and fills in for missing employees that are out sick.)

And No i do not have a collage degree but have more time in collage then many with a degree. (its has to do with how Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) works)

And yes i am voting for Trump.

a reply to: Aazadan

You are right, most people do go to college to better their chances of getting a decent job. I went school to become a craftsman, not one class more than needed. I didn't like it, it's unimaginably expensive, and parking was a pain.

If you don't mind what is your chosen career path.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

I have just under 400 college semester credits. That doesn't mean I'm educated though, there's still way more in life that I don't know than I do.

You may think poorly because I'm defending getting an actual education, but that's better than the opposite approach which is defending ignorance.

Again, I don't consider education and learning to do a job to be in the same category at all. Job training is how you make a living, learning how the world works (both in theory and practice) is education.

originally posted by: seasonal
If you don't mind what is your chosen career path.

I don't really have one. I skipped doing a summer internship this past year to work really indepth on a personal project.

In the past I've worked as a developer on an MMO, I've done web development, and I've taught programming classes.

Education wise I've got degrees in Computer Science, Web Programming, Interactive Digital Technology, and Computer Graphics, and I'm working on another Simulation/Game Engineering... and outside of school I have 20 years experience doing a mix of hobbyist/professional programming (started at 14, am 34 now), and 8 in 3d modeling.

When I'm done with this one, I'm done... I literally cannot stand dragging myself into a classroom anymore. Employment wise when I'm done, I really don't know but I still have some time to figure it out.

I have a lot of interests that fall within my skillset: VR/AR development, AI research, robotics, game dev, defense contracting (lots of simulations there), or maybe even give back to the country a bit and do some government work ranging from NASA to places like NSA/CIA/FBI that need data analysts (something I'm pretty good at). As a backup field, my Computer Graphics degree is an art degree and I do a lot of 3d modeling so anything from CGI and Animation, to video editing, to rapid prototyping is up my alley as well.

So I guess you could sum up a possible career path as sitting at a computer clicking buttons.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Why do you say that? How do you know what they think of you?

Sound like some serious assuming is going on...

Out of curiosity, do you think you might do this in regards to black/white race issues?

a reply to: Aazadan

I was born without the ability to remember my times tables NOR can I perform math,I fall asleep if I try.
I have been tested by ...MANY sources since the 60s when it first was found.
I was still able to acquire those 2 degrees and was well on the way to a BA minus 1 year, the problem?
I can't remember the functions of a computer program very well EITHER.
But despite that as of....5 years before, I was tested by a psychologist at 115 and a genius at shapes ,which doesn't compute to me..job wise.
Some people who have been studying SO hard for SO long, they have effectively lost their perspective, based on their curriculum and teachers.
It's UGLY and obvious that many ivy league institutions are infested with radicals who are applauding the "Cloward and Piven" methods used from Obama,they can be easily identified by deflective conversations or hostility when they get pinned down and ignoring realities of planet earth.
Some are almost EXACT retreads of hippies from the 60s ,so intelligence won't get alot of traction,here.
I am more intelligent than most news teams or they are lying for liberals.
JUST as they have for others.
CASE it point: Report a UFO on the news,you're a joke.

a reply to: ketsuko

i like to pick theme songs for threads. i like this one, i think mister Rowe would to.

a reply to: Aazadan

I envisioned physiology for some reason, your post are very measured but point driven.

You are sitting in a very desirable position. If you can get hired into a governmental position, they still may offer a pension. Huge deal.

So Democrats have more post grads but less income?

Congratulations

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Aazadan

I was born without the ability to remember my times tables NOR can I perform math,I fall asleep if I try.
I have been tested by ...MANY sources since the 60s when it first was found.
I was still able to acquire those 2 degrees and was well on the way to a BA minus 1 year, the problem?
I can't remember the functions of a computer program very well EITHER.
But despite that as of....5 years before, I was tested by a psychologist at 115 and a genius at shapes ,which doesn't compute to me..job wise.
Some people who have been studying SO hard for SO long, they have effectively lost their perspective, based on their curriculum and teachers.
It's UGLY and obvious that many ivy league institutions are infested with radicals who are applauding the "Cloward and Piven" methods used from Obama,they can be easily identified by deflective conversations or hostility when they get pinned down and ignoring realities of planet earth.
Some are almost EXACT retreads of hippies from the 60s ,so intelligence won't get alot of traction,here.
I am more intelligent than most news teams or they are lying for liberals.
JUST as they have for others.
CASE it point: Report a UFO on the news,you're a joke.

I envy you being able to trigger sleep. I suffer from a mix of insomnia and sleeping too much. Can't get to sleep, but then I can't get up unless I get a good 10-12 hours. It plays hell with scheduling. Anyways, I was IQ tested by a psychologist a couple years back at 172. Growing up my entire life I never scored less than 99th percentile on a standardized test.

In fact, you could sum up my early schooling two ways. My English teachers thought I was a dunce and my Math teachers thought I was the greatest prodigy they had ever seen. If you ever read some of my longer posts here, you would probably never guess that through all of grade school and even into college that writing was my worst subject, I literally could not fill a paragraph. Now I consider it to be one of my best (though it doesn't always come across well here on ATS where I'm much more informal due to the forum structure). I've written and self published a book, and I usually explain my points.

Math is where it gets more interesting though. I ended up with a really bad habit that I've carried with me to this day. Once I learned my math teacher thought I was a genius, I applied myself in every college class I've had, spoken to the instructors, and gotten them to also call me or my work genius. It's a very bad habit I have, but it's fun. For example, I had a philosophy class last year where my instructor called me a genius, one of the smartest students he ever came across, and wanted to publish my writings from his class. At my "new" school I've been at for 3 years now, I've managed to get that reaction from 100% of my professors... it's the game I play to keep myself motivated enough to finish.

Anyways the long and the short of this is, by most metrics I am highly intelligent. I grasp all information instantly, and I've ever had to study for a single test in my life, I get the knowledge on the initial presentation.

Am I smart though? Well... I'm a great problem solver, and very well regarded by my classmates, but my personal life could do a lot better, and there are millions of things I can't do. I could probably change a tire, but I cannot fix a furnace, I cannot fix a faulty electrical switch, I cannot do Matte Painting, I cannot manage a football team.... and so on, even down to something simple: we have a foreign exchange student in from Spain this semester, and I cannot speak to her in Spanish.

I have what I would consider a wide array of skills for this area (or perhaps average for a tech city), but that doesn't necessarily make me smart, it just means that I was lucky enough to take advantage of an opportunity to learn.

a reply to: Aazadan

OH it's NOT REM monty ,no ,no .I have to take 1200mgs of Gabapentin to STOP THINKING!
It takes 3 hours to take effect.
e all have our calling in life ,only a few are lucky enough to find it,it may not pay ,it may be bad for some,but it is what you have inside.
I was THAT pissed so I became an army scout.
THEY were often bothered by HOW I would succeed but I did.
I read books about the subject of UFOs at 8, I have read much of history and military subjects,but I have NEVER seen any paranormal activity or MY OWN UFO...I feel Gyipped
I am smart and witty.
Intelligent ?
No. I 'm no Jeopardy champ here.
But what is obvious to many is the news is false,they told us so as well.

Education can be had easily, as long as you seek it out. Read, travel, explore, talk to people from all walks of life, cultures, etc. People want to pass along their knowledge, it's their legacy.

The greatest learning is from experience. College is experience, but so is life, so is a job. It is all education. Some guy getting an A in psychology means something to him, but could he get an A in a Business? Or an Engineering class?

Institutional education is subjective, it only means something to those who it matters. A Masters in Anthropology will not get you a job as a Accountant. So, is a degree a mark of someone more intelligent than another? No.

a reply to: Aazadan

You come across as a very educated individual.

However, your comment about how those people who do not continue their higher education by going to college are the same as high school drop outs, is exactly the point some of us have made:

Many people with college education or degrees tend to look down their nose at those who have neither. Your above statement is a very good example of that.

Throughout history there have been many, many great minds that have enlightened humankind, propelled us forward in leaps and bounds with knowledge, scientific advancement, inventions and discoveries........who had never spent one day in a college or university.

There are many ways to learn and gain knowledge, to become "educated" as you defined it, without once stepping into a formal setting of a classroom with a teacher.

It only requires two things, and two things only:

1) A person must have the desire to learn about something and increase their knowledge.

2) That person must have access to information and resources.

Information and resources are vast in today's world with the internet on hand. Not like the Middle Ages where few could read, and books were even rarer. A person can access just about any kind of information they desire.
Resources can be harder to come by. But that is also dependent upon what it is they are trying to learn. I'll freely admit it will be harder for someone wanting to learn about chemical analysis without a mass spectrometer, and much easier for someone to obtain modeling clay with a spin table to do hands on making pottery. But the idea is the same: if you can access the resources, you can still learn.

I've not spent one day in college. I did finish high school though.

However, I can competently teach you anything you want to know about being an electrician or working with electronics, repairing things down to the component level, including micro electronic components, or, if you'd like, how to wire up a house, completely with a break box to code.

I can teach you music theory and composition. If you'd like to learn how to play the trombone, trumpet, baritone, or clarinet, I can.

Like astronomy? Quite a bit I can teach you about that as I'm a amateur astronomer, or astrophotography if you'd like to take images of the sky.

How about some culture that is outside of the US? I lived in South Korea for 3 years, I can teach you quite about Korean culture, food, way of life, and even some simple phrases to speak.

Or I can do the same for the Thai culture of Thailand.

How about the Italians? Lived in Italy for 3 years too. Quite a bit I can teach you about them and the many false ideas that people get.

Would you like to learn anything about fire fighting? Guess what I had to learn while I was in the US Navy? You can not call the fire department while floating in the middle of the ocean. I can certainly teach you how to put out class A, B, C and D fires.....and all the fire safety you could ever want while fighting fires.

If I'm ever with you and you suffer some sort of severe physical trauma, worry not! I also was trained quite well many times over in this area too while in the Navy. Some of which I keep up, like CPR. I still remember how to take care of severe things like a sucking chest wound, and I'll do my best to keep you alive.

So......not too bad for someone that you consider a "high school drop out". A broad spectrum of blue collar trade work, to pure academic, to cultural awareness. With out one day of college under my belt.

Oh....and I can also tell you whether or not your UN Human Rights are being violated. That was extra from the US Navy. Mix up with my orders and I ended up in a training session reserved for commanding officers only. Still, I found the information interesting enough to pay attention. Sure glad I was able to keep up with all those college degreed officers!

Oh wait, that's right. I got the highest score in the class.........

So, explain to me again how I'm a "high school drop out" ??

Usually I like to play the uneducated part. People think they know you, but don't really have a clue.

Blue collar journeyman sheetmetal worker making decent money.

I used to be a mailroom manager at the local newspaper making $10.75 an hour. I had so many people putting in applications for work that had degrees it was crazy.

People are being sold false dreams for a fortune, end up working for nickels to pay for the fortune spent. For every ten people that make it, there are 50 college grads that can't even get work.

People's best bet is skilled labor.

a reply to: ketsuko

Some of the most uninformed, brainwashed, socially inept twits I've ever had the displeasure of meeting can pull out multiple degrees without blinking, it does not change the fact that they are idiots (that can balance chemical equations).

My brother in law left school at 15 and was a millionaire before 30 because he is street smart, intellectually switched on and not a lazy prick.

It took me at least 10 years to de-indoctrinate myself from the crap I was mentally fed at Uni, I use about 3% of my degree regularly, the rest was an absolute waste of time, especially since the advent of GPS and Internet.

a reply to: ketsuko

The arrogant elitists equate wisdom will degrees.

the only thing I associate with degrees is Fahrenheit and Celsius.

Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit but wisdom dictates it doesnt belong in a fruit salad.

The polls may be utilizing demographics, but it is the pundits and politicos using those demos to divide. I wouldnt discount a college education, but there are many paths to wisdom that are outside the realm of a "formal" path.

Mike Rowe is spot on here.