Peak Irony: Mexico Wants To Build The Wall To Stop Illegal Immigration

a reply to: network dude

a reply to: TrueBrit

I usually like and star all your posts, but this one seems phoned in.

I mean that's an easy thing to say for someone who lives on an island. It takes a bit more effort to get to the UK than the US, unless you're willing to walk the Chunnel.

a reply to: network dude

You bring up a good point but it's not that simple. It has become increasingly more difficult for most in SA to legally migrate here. It takes quite a few hoops to jump through and quite a bit of money that moat don't have. On the flip side, its far more easier for a European to come this way. They usually have the means and qualified sponsors.

My issue with our immigration problem is our outdated and draconian system that hasn't been updated withnthe rest of the world. The whole damn thing needs overhauled and modernized. We shouldn't be making it so damn difficult for both those that wish to migrate and those that do the footwork in government to help people migrate.

It's a damn cluster#*#.

a reply to: thov420

Cubans pull off a crossing that is more than 5 times the width of the channel.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: infolurker

Is anyone going to call the Mexicans racist for wanting this protection from dangerous criminals or is this another "only if you're white" sort of thing?

Only If You're White Sort Of Thing

a reply to: thov420

A pretty significant number of people do much worse than that. They strap themselves to the undercarriages of coaches, hide in storage compartments, clamber into trucks, refrigerated trucks sometimes, bless their hearts, and God only knows what else. But realistically most illegal immigration is done by staying beyond the end of a visit without asking for an extension.

And remember, the channel is only thirty two and a bit kilometres wide at its narrowest. A crappy boat could make that trip in a few hours.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: infolurker

Is anyone going to call the Mexicans racist for wanting this protection from dangerous criminals or is this another "only if you're white" sort of thing?

Someone called "the Americans" racist?

a reply to: TrueBrit

I watched Top Gear do it in a "Toyboata" so I know it's not really that far. I didn't realize people actually try to immigrate in such dangerous ways, but thinking back, watching small Mexican children riding on top of a freight train (it could've been Vice but don't know for sure) is heart breaking. Taking such huge risks just to change your kid's situation for the better is inspiring.

I think the main problem here is the illegal vs legal immigration. My great-grandparents immigrated to the US legally from Norway. Back then, the US had a lot of land to fill with bodies to secure their claim on the land. Nowadays that's not the case, so immigration standards have gone up. I think that's a good thing for America. I wish we could still accept the "huddled masses" etc but we're in a bad way right now and more people coming in only exacerbates our problems.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: thov420

But realistically most illegal immigration is done by staying beyond the end of a visit without asking for an extension.

Totally forgot to address this point. You are totally correct and you would think, with the internet and real-time world wide communication, people would be alerted the very day someone here on a visa overstayed their welcome. Getting an email about a situation and actually apprehending the person in question is a huge gap that really can't be solved without nationwide CCTV, and apparently not even with major population center CCTV coverage. There must be a way to make things better but I just can't envision them ATM.

a reply to: thov420

Yes, but do you not understand that if your nation is under surveillance at all times, in all places, if facial recognition technology is used to identify illegal immigrants and criminals, then it will also be used to track those who have done nothing wrong? You will be handing over your liberty, your privacy, in return for security. If you love your country and your liberty at all, you must defend your liberty despite the fact that it will necessarily mean that you have slightly less effective law enforcement. It is a price you should be willing to pay, in order that you never compromise even the tiniest fragment of your liberty.

Why do I say that? Because if you allow some liberties to be taken away, eventually all of them will. That is the way these things work, the way those who would be doing the taking operate. That is not supposition, it is happening now. And if you allow those liberties to be taken from you, your rights to ebb away like a tide, you will be living a life not worth living by the end of the process.

Is that what you want for yourself? Is it what you want for your children, and your children's children? Will you protect your liberties, all of them, and never compromise a single one of them, or will you allow some, and eventually all to be taken from you? Those are the choices before you. There is no third way, where you get security and liberty and sacrifice only a little in the long run.

This wall talk has been going on for soo long now and I still have not heard any rational thought as to why it is a bad idea.
I challenge anyone to prove to me and everyone else, that the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to building a wall along the mexican boarder.

Bonus points if you don't bring up any "phobias" or "isms"
because we all (should) know that is all bull.

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

First of all, a wall will be ineffective. Most of the illegal immigration which comes into the United States is not done by people smugglers and folk climbing over a little fence, or under it, or digging a tunnel. It is done by overstaying visas, as mentioned above.

Second of all, there is nothing to stop someone digging a deeper, better tunnel, or repurposing narco subs to take passengers, and to be realistic about it, if someone wanted into the US, they would only have to skirt round the wall using the sea. Unless you want a wall around your entire nation, ruining your coastlines, interfering with wildlife and fishing of course, which would be nuts.

Then you have the fact that more people cross the border from north to south these days, rather than the other way around, making the entire enterprise utterly moot. Of course, I do not expect rationality to come into this discussion, because we are dealing with hypernationalist foam mouthed dogs apparently, rather than human beings with functioning cerebellums.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I do understand that and I never advocated for that or ever will. I was trying to make a point about UK CCTV not being able to pinpoint visa over stayers, yet they are the biggest illegal immigrant demographic.

I'm not willing to give up liberty for safety but apparently a lot of people are. I would much rather provide for my own safety than count on a government employee to provide it for me. I live in the middle of nowhere. It was 15 min before an officer showed up at my house after I called 911 for my dad, and he just happened to be in the area.

I think we may be drawing this off topic. Mexico wanting to build a wall to limit illegal immigration is no different than the US wanting to do the same. Some think all borders should be eliminated and others think they should be strengthened. Honestly, the hated "NWO" is the future of the human race if we actually want to get out and explore/colonize the solar system and beyond. Our tribalism is only holding us back ATM and our governments are faning the flames for whatever purpose.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

Of course, I do not expect rationality to come into this discussion, because we are dealing with hypernationalist foam mouthed dogs apparently, rather than human beings with functioning cerebellums.

Is that directed at just that poster or all posters who disagree with you on this topic? Because I take offense to that. I most certainly am a human being with a functioning cerebellum, and cerebrum, and hippocampus, etc.

a reply to: thov420

Both the United States, and Mexico already have borders with neighbouring nations. A wall is not going to actually achieve anything for either nation, not a damned thing. I have forgotten more about security than most people on this site could ever hope to learn, and if there is one thing I have learned which overrides all other things, it is that if someone is determined enough, they will find a way into whatever you want to keep them out of. All you can do is slow them down, and with respect, the numbers of immigrants travelling across either Mexicos border with its neighbours further south, or the Mexico/US border, travelling north, is far lower than the number of people travelling through that border in a southerly direction.

Once again, illegal immigrants are far more likely these days to travel to the states by air, and overstay their welcome, than risk the border itself or the people smugglers for that matter. The game is changing, and walls, no matter whether they are on the Mexican border with its neighbours to the south, or the border with the US to the north are NOT going to solve those problems or even significantly reduce them, because they are a solution to a problem which no longer represents the vast majority of the problem being addressed!

a reply to: thov420

Thov420,

While I respect your position, because of the rationality you have approached things with, I can also say that I am also tired of the wall talk. I am tired of it for the same reason I am tired of the idiots who wanted to vote our of Europe to prevent immigration (which will not be effected all that much by the vote, actually). I am tired of those who think it is clever to take the phobias and isms out of the equation, because for the most part, those who want a wall and believe it will stop illegal immigration, those who want Trump and his Muslim badges, and registration, and a whole host of other BULL, cannot, CANNOT possibly suggest that their motivations are anything other than phobic and racist.

Yours are not. You are not the rule, just the exception. Most of the rest would fit right into 1930s Berlin though, and that's always a bad place to fit in.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You dont think a wall would stop people sneaking in while no one is looking? Theres plenty of footage on the US/Mex boarder to prove it happens... alot.

Why not let them build a wall? If its not stopping anyone then why do you care?

a reply to: TrueBrit

Thank you. It's nice not to be lumped in with others because of a single stance on an issue. I knew there was a reason I usually star your posts.

I wasn't aware Brexit had anything to do with immigration, I thought it was about more autonomy for the UK but I'm on the outside looking in so my thoughts are almost less than useless. I get nationalism has left a huge gash in European politics, but nationalism itself isn't a bad thing. Wanting to make your country better is always a good thing. I think we can agree, the ways to accomplishing that goal can be bad for the whole country.

I really think the basic argument for the wall is the same one used for door locks. You need a door to let people in that you want and a lock to keep those you don't want out. Obviously a lock/wall is only a deterrent. I don't think anyone believes it will actually stop illegal immigration, but there are probably some low-info voters who do. I think a lot of the wall talk is just pandering, since there's already been a large portion of wall built for a long time.

I don't remember hearing about Muslim badges or registration from Trump so if you could link them I would appreciate it.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Oh, right you live on an island ...

That sort of takes you out of the equation because the water is a natural barrier for you already.

The UK HAS a wall. It's called ocean.

a reply to: Butterfinger

When you want to stop illegal immigration, you stop the biggest source. That has not been people crossing the land border for YEARS. It's people failing to honour their visas and go home on time, that is the biggest source of illegal immigration. So stop that, and you are solving a massive part of the problem. Stopping the dribs and drabs at the border is like putting a plaster on a paper cut and letting someone bleed out from the neck instead. It is idiotic and malfunctional.

Yes, one does tend to lock a door, that is true. But one does not put a high security lock on the door to the pantry, and put a tool box lock on the front door, and that is the sort of madness that a wall at your border would be.