Take that Islamophobes — Muslim Man Dies Saving Hundreds of Lives by Hugging a Suicide Bomber

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is nothing worse than arguing with someone who isn't willing to be flexible in their thinking. Why do I bother?? Maybe it's futile to have a rational discussion with you but other readers may come away with insight.

I see. You can't convince me of your reasoning and suddenly I'M the problem. It's funny you say this yet you've yet to EVER concede a point to me either. Don't talk about my stubbornness when you are just as bad.

Name one secular Islamic country. Turkey? Not any more. That's why they had a coup attempt.

Erm... The point of a country being secular is that a religion doesn't dominate it.

" the majority of the Muslim world publicly denounced ISIS as a threat to humanity."

I wish our Govt would understand that these Isis terrorists are a threat to humanity too, and that they are slipping through into all the western countries, just like they have in France.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I apologize if I couldn't understand what you are trying to ask. I think it could be because you're asking the wrong questions. I understand, this Islam thing is very confusing for those who haven't truly tried to understand it.

Ok, so you're asking, would it still be terrorism if those in the west weren't true Muslims? I'm sorry if I don't get the question.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't know what reality you live in. Islam nations are not secular. Is that what you're trying to argue now? Iran, Saudi Arabia...etc etc. What are you asking? What's your point?

Islam is a full system . The majority want no separation of mosque and state. Aka sharia law.

Roughly half want their clerics to do more about isis. Which means less than half.

At 51% the title would have more than half.

Most muslims in the Usa are cream of the crop, theyre the very best, and most secular as they wanted to leave and had the means. They are in no way average muslims.

Would be like using american episcopals to describe all christians.
Europe is getting a dose of much closer to average muslims.

The only thing to be done in this case is to praise this brave, brave human being and lament his passing. There are many stories of sacrifice and here we have another one.

I remember a story from the troubles in Northern Ireland about something very similar. It was immortalised in a song by Harvey Andrews, poetic license was used in the song of course, but the story was essentially the same:

Soldier: Harvey Andrews



It seems that sadly our world will need many more heroes. A glass to them then.

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't know what reality you live in. Islam nations are not secular. Is that what you're trying to argue now? Iran, Saudi Arabia...etc etc. What are you asking? What's your point?

I think you have a reading comprehension problem.

My point is that secular nations tend to be a mix of many different religions. Not just one. Only fundamentalist Christians who don't know any better call the US a Christian nation, for example. But the reality is that there are tons of different religions in this country (including Islam) and no one religion holds sway over the other (or at least that is how it is supposed to be). A secular country that was predominantly Islam would have large populations of non-Islams and they wouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. This is something that isn't widespread among the Islam world, but instead of blowing them up all the time and swearing up and down that secular Islamic countries are impossible, we should be attempting to create them. Or push to have the Muslims create them themselves.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm having a reading comprehension problem because you are unable to articulate.

My point is that secular nations tend to be a mix of many different religions

Yeah, ok. I agree. So what's your point?


edit. I see you added more to your thought

But the reality is that there are tons of different religions in this country (including Islam) and no one religion holds sway over the other (or at least that is how it is supposed to be). A secular country that was predominantly Islam would have large populations of non-Islams and they wouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. This is something that isn't widespread among the Islam world, but instead of blowing them up all the time and swearing up and down that secular Islamic countries are impossible, we should be attempting to create them. Or push to have the Muslims create them themselves.

Trying to understand your point but it seem really convoluted. Are you're saying Secularism is Islamic countries is not wide spread but we should be pushing them to create it? Correct me if i'm wrong. I am sincerely trying to understand your mind set

a reply to: TheFlyOnTheWall

I just explained my point twice. Sit down and read it carefully a few times. I'm not reexplaining it for you a third time.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

settle down charger. You edited more comments after I already responded.

a reply to: TheFlyOnTheWall

Ok, so you're asking, would it still be terrorism if those in the west weren't true Muslims? I'm sorry if I don't get the question.

If Islam, is attacking the west like you said is why I asked what I posted.

What I asked was are Muslims living peacefully in the west not Muslims?

If Islam like you said and not terrorism like I said is attacking the west how Muslims live peacefully in the west?

Shouldn't all Muslims be killing and dying in the name of Allah all over the west if Islam is attacking the west?

My point is terrorism doesn't have a religion, it goes against every religion in its purest form.

Its easy to interpret any religious text as saying one should kill this or that, however in my belief the ones interpreting their own religion as dictating such have failed the test that religious doctrines give its followers.

There are contradictory passages in every religious book, the test of the faithful is how they interpret conflicting passages and how they live their lives using their conscious beliefs of whats right and wrong.

Anyone can say they are a Muslim or a Christian but their actions speak louder than their claims.

Anyone killing innocence cannot say they belong this or that religion when their actions contradict the unity all religions preach at their core.

Religions are used to divide instead of unite humanity by those with agendas, mainly those in position of power and influence, the truly religious people are the ones that put their differing beliefs aside and live in peace.

I dont want to be a part of these threads because they so full of dividing ideologies, some know what their agendas are and some are blinding supporting a dividing ideology.

I guess I am addicted to ATS and threads like these reading some of the replies that make broad statements like you did about Islam attacking the west just make me open my mouth and spout my own beliefs and ask my own stupid questions.

Sorry if my stance is depicted as an attack, I guess I am not immune to the hate or dislike some have and try to oppose them to give my point of view.

I guess I live in a fantasy hoping that humanity will overcome all this division that we are fed from every direction every day.

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall
a reply to: Krazysh0t

settle down charger. You edited more comments after I already responded.

It is a common problem here on ATS.

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall
a reply to: InhaleExhale

Show me where I've said Muslims in the west aren't Muslims.

I know where all the confusion is for the apologists. None of you have read the Quran and are trying to equivocate the actions of a few good people to be what is written in the Quran.

Here's food for thought. Not all ww2 Nazis were bad people.

I've read the Noble Quran.

What is it that seems to trouble you with its Surah & Ayat?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

TextHow naive of you. I actually KNOW and am friends with Muslims. So I know ALL about how moderate Muslims act

ha so because you know a hand full of "moderate muslims" in your tiny corner of the world you know how all "moderate muslims" act .

your are very closed minded.

the thing is just like like in every religion there are tons of variations, even variations within the same household same mosque, same community. it all comes down to ones personnel relationship with that religion. it can change day to day, a moderate could be the father or mother of a teenage extremist and not even know it. there are so many possible anomalies that go on in this world , that for you to say "i know moderate muslims" is irresponsible and sad.

Unless your whole point of your argument is just to argue then you are spot on. My nine year old is going through the same thing, you will grow out of it one day.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Ah I get what you're asking.

What I asked was are Muslims living peacefully in the west not Muslims

Yes, they are Muslims (according to you and me)

If Islam like you said and not terrorism like I said is attacking the west how Muslims live peacefully in the west?

Ah yes, the most infamous argument. Why aren't muslims killing muslims in the west if Islam is a bad religion. Simple to answer actually. The "West" isn't the world. Muslims kill Muslims throughout all of its inception globally. Muslims are the no.1 victim of their own ideology. United States however, only 3% of the population is Islam. And just like Nazism, not all Muslims are bad. Many just want to have normalcy. But nice Muslims don't represent the the entirety of Islam. Scholars and Imams do. If the US was 25/75 or 50/50 or 80/20 Islamic, you can be as sure as the nose on your face those westernized gay, drinking Muslims will be a target.

Anyone killing innocence cannot say they belong this or that religion when their actions contradict the unity all religions preach at their core.

I have to stop you there for a moment. Allah in the Quran, hates everyone except orthodox Muslims. There is no "love" for infidels and you need to take my word for that. Islam is not inclusive

Religions are used to divide instead of unite humanity by those with agendas, mainly those in position of power and influence, the truly religious people are the ones that put their differing beliefs aside and live in peace.

I can't get behind that statement 100%. Yes religion divides, but to call yourself truly religious doesn't mean setting aside the tenets of Islam for the sake of peace. It's on'y peaceful for Islam provided everyone is a Muslim following the exact tenets of orthodox Islam. That's the peaceful part the Quran speaks of. Once the world is finally Islamic.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall
a reply to: InhaleExhale

Show me where I've said Muslims in the west aren't Muslims.

I know where all the confusion is for the apologists. None of you have read the Quran and are trying to equivocate the actions of a few good people to be what is written in the Quran.

Here's food for thought. Not all ww2 Nazis were bad people.

I've read the Noble Quran.

What is it that seems to trouble you with its Surah & Ayat?

Oh lord, where do I begin? Have you read it in order?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
To be fair, yes they are. Do you know how many Muslims live in the United States and have no problems doing so?

Yes, 17.

Joking aside, sure they may live in the US - but they have adapted and accepted the democratic way of life. They have chosen to abandon a govt mandated religion and work in a free society.

Islam prescribes a methodology to live your entire life under it's rules. If Western culture was compatible with Islam, why do Iran, Iraq, Sudan, UAE, Afghan, Pakistan, (any other non-secular, Islamic country), not adopt and work and live in a democratic fashion?

Because that is not what Islam prescribes, hence why I believe western society and Islam and not compatible. Some muslim individuals *may* choose to live in a free society like the US, but how many of the 1.6 billion worldwide believe in living like that? How many choose NOT to? As far as I can tell, more than a majority chose to live under Islamic rule and Islamic law. Neither or which are good for a society.

a reply to: pavil

Suicide vests only target non muslims, haven't you heard?

Get real.

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: TheFlyOnTheWall
a reply to: InhaleExhale

Show me where I've said Muslims in the west aren't Muslims.

I know where all the confusion is for the apologists. None of you have read the Quran and are trying to equivocate the actions of a few good people to be what is written in the Quran.

Here's food for thought. Not all ww2 Nazis were bad people.

I've read the Noble Quran.

What is it that seems to trouble you with its Surah & Ayat?

Oh lord, where do I begin? Have you read it in order?

Yes.

Try to have this debate without copy pasting from ReligionOfPeace dot com, please.


We don't need biased anti-Islamic sources if you can indeed prove what you have been saying.


I'd also like you to stop comparing me to Nazis, good or bad. Thanks.

That's a good man to die protecting others. If only we could say we would all do the same.

However. The issue remains that the situation was still a case of "Islamic Terrorism". The fact that one person felt the need to blow themselves up in the name of a religion is reason enough for concern. The fact that many who practice said religion will refer to the coward as a hero is enough justification in my opinion to warrant action.

You can't fault most westerners for viewing Islam negatively when terrorism is the main narrative that's associated with the religion.