Origin of Non-human knowledge in antiquity

In the ancient world if you required knowledge of something you really only had three choices.

*Sit down and try to work it out using your own logic.

*Seek the advice of somebody with greater learning on the matter.

*Consult an Oracle/medium or preform a divination ritual

This third and last option is something we completely ignore in modern times, its off our radar completely and so when the ancients talk about acquiring knowledge by communicating with the gods we automatically jump to extraterrestrials!

Today the only place where you can see people still communicating with the gods (that I am aware of) is in Tibet. The dalai lama frequently communicates with an oracle, a person who allows a god to enter his body and speak through him.

If we can firstly believe that there are gods/spirits who are older/wiser then humans and secondly that they can communicate to us through entering a humans body it allows for an interesting consideration.

The interesting consideration is that humans have possibly in the past acquired technical or scientific knowledge which has non human origins, not extraterrestrial but metaphysical in origin. If these beings are superior to humans in knowledge as some believe then we have to consider the possibility that knowledge of a very advanced nature could have been acquired by humans in antiquity using this method. Such knowledge could have allowed for leaps in innovation, the acquisition of knowledge hundreds of years in advance of human thinking.

We would also have to consider that this knowledge could be demonic in nature (acquired by communicating with a daemon) or godly in nature. We would also have to consider kings may have been given sound advice or lead astray and corrupted by such communication in the past.

I find your lack of choices disturbing...

Elders:

a leader or senior figure in a tribe or other group.
"a council of village elders"
synonyms: leader, senior figure, patriarch, father
"the native elders"

Most of the lessons of the past included a consultation with older people, they have more experience with life, have answers to dilemmas facing younger generations.

Sadly today, nobody is listening.

a reply to: intrptr

I find your comprehension disturbing as that would come under the second category I mentioned !

originally posted by: intrptr

I find your lack of choices disturbing...

Elders:

a leader or senior figure in a tribe or other group.
"a council of village elders"
synonyms: leader, senior figure, patriarch, father
"the native elders"

Most of the lessons of the past included a consultation with older people, they have more experience with life, have answers to dilemmas facing younger generations.

Sadly today, nobody is listening.

Perhaps the younger generation has seen the results of what the older people have left them to face. Can't really blame them eh?

a reply to: zinc12

Interesting in your vid the Dhali Llama says he would much want to see the oracle be tested with science but wishes only for the oracle to participate with permission. Nice vid and thanks for sharing.

a reply to: zinc12

The story of Icarus the son of Daedalus is such a tale, an ancient man (or people) gained too much knowledge and it led to tragedy, in the parable he created a pair of wing's and was able to fly but he got too close to the sun (he was not ready and thought he knew more than he did so was brash with the knowledge he had) and the sun melted the wax that held his wing's together so he fell to the earth.

In Greek legend also there is the war between the God's and the Titan's, the Titan Prometheus though bound is enigmatic as he gave the secret or fire to man but of course he was a Greek Devil or as close to one as they had and this same story is echoed but much darker in intent in the Book of Genesis account of the Serpent in the Garden were the Knowlege he imparted or caused man to take before he was ready actually harmed mankind.

We are But children so small we can not even see the ruin's of the giant's around us let alone understand there work's seem's to be the recurring message.

But I see it like this, the God's/Angels or Spirit's are actually Ascended human's from perhaps an earlier race (This idea long predates the star gate sci fi series) and we are either a new race they made in there image since once they had become non corporeal they were in danger of stagnation with no new members for there race so needed to make new people identical to themselves but of course less advanced and the Demon's are there enemy or those that they exiled for there abuse of there knowlege and power.

Now I am actually a christian but the angel's had to come from somewhere right, made in there image and of course in the resurrection you shall be as the angels.

a reply to: zinc12

I see you edited your original post to include that, sort of.

Considering they didn't write as much down back when and or have as complex lives as we do today. They were often on a subsistance life style, if you couldn't' catch game, trap, hunt or fish you're a goner.

Better pay attention when the elder hunt-smith fashions a bow or spear, and leads us to game.

a reply to: olaru12

Perhaps the younger generation has seen the results of what the older people have left them to face. Can't really blame them eh?

The older generations have seen all the lies before about why we must invade and wage aggressive war, that repetitive pattern isn't current enough for you (or them) now?

Its about to heat up again after the elections.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: zinc12

I see you edited your original post to include that, sort of.
.

No I did not, stop lying !

a reply to: LABTECH767

There are story's of king Solomon summoning daemons and questioning them to acquire knowledge, though there may be mythology involved its clear that the ancients actually did do this. Think about it there weren't much books around and the world was less populated. People probably went on very long journeys to seek the advice of a wise person and when that failed there was only the gods, or daemons to resort to. They must have made large sacrifices in exchange for an answer they felt was urgently needed.

The "technology" of how to communicate with the gods (ritual magic) must then have been a jealously guarded secret.

originally posted by: zinc12

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: zinc12

I see you edited your original post to include that, sort of.
.

No I did not, stop lying !

*Seek the advice of somebody with greater learning on the matter.

Didn't mention elders, just made that point. Calm down.

a reply to: intrptr
Its called karma, what you put out is what you receive!

originally posted by: zinc12
The "technology" of how to communicate with the gods (ritual magic) must then have been a jealously guarded secret.

According to legend, Plutarch, a priest at the Temple of Apollo, attributed Pythia's prophetic powers to vapors. Other accounts suggested the vapors may have come from a chasm in the ground.

Now, a four-year study of the area in the vicinity of the shrine is causing archaeologists and other authorities to revisit the notion that intoxicating fumes loosened the lips of the Pythia.

The study, reported in the August issue of Geology, reveals that two faults intersect directly below the Delphic temple. The study also found evidence of hallucinogenic gases rising from a nearby spring and preserved within the temple rock.

"Plutarch made the right observation," said Jelle De Boer, a geologist at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut, and co-author of the study. "Indeed, there were gases that came through the fractures."

Having studied ritual magic a bit when I was younger I noticed something quite interesting. Daemons are generally easier to summon and bargain with for information because blood sacrifices are appealing to them also they are not fussy about who they are willing to communicate with. The gods on the other hand require offerings (incense, fruits, flowers, grain) and will only communicate with a person of high morality seeking wisdom for a just cause.
As you can imagine then summoning daemons to acquire knowledge was more prevalent in antiquity as was blood sacrifices.

It is clear then that the god of the old testament is actually a daemon, he refused cain's offering of fruits, flowers and grains but accepted abel's blood sacrifice of a lamb identifying him as a deamon from the lower realms.

a reply to: Marduk

I have read that theory and personally don't agree with it. The Oracle's of that region inhaled the smoke of burning juniper berry's to help induce the trance and so that was probably the vapours Plutarch was referring to. To communicate with these entity's a trance must be induced and burning of incense, ingesting potions, chanting, drawing magical symbols and offerings/sacrifices are all involved.

Maybe people were smarter than you give them credit for, maybe they were more intelligent than we are
Your assumption is a little arrogant

originally posted by: intrptr

I find your lack of choices disturbing...

I agree. There was also the "sit in the marketplace and allow strangers to offer advice (Babylonian custom) - there's probably a number of others.

As to oracles, they can be bribed and can famously be misleading.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: zinc12

The story of Icarus the son of Daedalus is such a tale, an ancient man (or people) gained too much knowledge and it led to tragedy,

However, that's only in Western (European) tradition. In Eastern (Chinese, Japanese) tradition, those who "gained too much knowledge" are welcomed into the heavens as a new god. And Egyptians deified people who were unusually wise (Imhotep comes immediately to mind, but there are others.)

a reply to: zinc12

There is no such thing as non-human knowledge.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Maybe people were smarter than you give them credit for, maybe they were more intelligent than we are
Your assumption is a little arrogant

Self knowledge is the first category and knowledge of others is under the second category so what do you mean by people were more intelligent then I think and I am being arrogant, it is true they were more intelligent then modern peoples, modern peoples lack comprehension, depth of thought.