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originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: syrinx high priest
Zero there should be zero income for those not willing to work for it, get a job and in 14 days I predict money will come your way.
originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: syrinx high priest
I don't have to send mine back, I don't get subsidized money, I go to work 5 days a week, 6 days in the winter when I get all that yummy overtime.
originally posted by: Daughter2
...
Again and again, THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH JOBS to support people. Re-read the first post please so you can stay on point.
It has nothing to do with work ethics or being lazy - there just aren't enough jobs and there will be less and less.
...
originally posted by: Puppylove
To those against a basic income:
Survival: Fighting for basic survival is fine, when doing so against the uncaring forces of nature. People understand that. Is why when a disaster happens, people instinctively are inclined to help each other fight to persevere. Is why when illness comes, more people are willing to lend a helping hand.
What many people fail to understand is fighting for basic survival simply because someone else thinks they should and want to feel superior to them.
The anecdote that if everyone had their basic needs met, they'd all just stay home and sit around all day is bull#. It's simply not true.
Now if the choice is, stay home all day, or bust your ass to get the same standard of living you had staying home all day. Then, yeah you know what people will stay home. Is why some people who learn to game the system do so. Why work 40 hours a week when you can get the same standard while not doing so? No one wants to work, because it requires for most people giving up most of their life to break less than even. It's simply not worth it. You want people to work to occasionally get above water long enough to catch a few breaths then go back to drowning, getting just enough air to survive, but not really live.
None of this is even necessary. No one should struggle for basic survival. We certainly aren't lacking the resources, no how, or technology to make it impossible. So it's simple unnecessary cruelty. It's torture and it's slavery. When the choice is do or die, it's forced. It's incentive via punishment.
Now you provide basic survival, and use work as a way to get above that. To get wants rather than basic needs, and work becomes a positive thing. It's now reward rather than punishment based. The idea that most people will be happy with basic survival is ludicrous. Most people will still seek work so they can get that new "toy" they've been craving. The difference is, when a person goes to work, they do so with a sense of security. They know, succeed or fail, their needs are met, their loved ones are cared for. They work because they want to, not because people are holding a gun to their head and the heads of their loved ones.
Fewer people will feel the need to resort to crime as well. Fewer desperate people means fewer criminals. So everyone can feel more secure from the wealthiest to the poorest.
People say, "Why should I work so that others can eat?" Well, to create a more safe and stable society, and as stated, you would still have more than those who don't. You'd still be a have while they're a have not. Everyone gets a basic income. It's where everyone starts. A basic income becomes the new bottom, but unlike the old, everyone's basic needs are at least taken care of at the bottom.
When you go to work, you still get bonus money to play with, you still have more toys to play with than those who do not, you're still ahead of everyone who does not work.
So my question is, if by working you're still ahead of everyone who's not working, why is it you feel those who don't need to be starving and dying for you to feel content? If you can have your more and they can have their basic living, and both are reasonably possible, why oh why is unnecessary suffering your preferred choice?
originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
OP, be careful for what you wish for. This wouldn't be the panacea you think it is. Ask those who are on public assistance now for more details.
originally posted by: Benicealways
But if people are not forced to work all the time, they are going to think and care about the earth, politics, life, can't have that!