Switzerland denies Muslim girls citizenship after they refuse to swim with boys

a reply to: tommo39

Good on the Swiss!

Assimilate or get the hell out!

a reply to: crazyewok

Assimilate or get the hell out!

YES, YES, and YES repeating.......

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: tommo39

Interesting, what do they do to Swiss Muslim citizens in the same situation?

Does this means that there is no religious freedom in Switzerland?

I was wondering about this too. According to Wikipedia:

The basic right protected by the constitution is that of public confession of adherence to a religious community and the performance of religious cult activities. Article 36 of the constitution introduces a limitation of these rights if they conflict with public interest or if they encroach upon the basic rights of others.

Also apparently Switzerland does require full integration and has of late taken to denying naturalization for "not being Swiss enough". That's Switzerland's prerogative.

What's amusing in this thread is that it's mostly Americans commenting and here in the US we don't require integration and habitually bend over backwards to accommodate Christians. We still don't teach evolution in all public schools or teach it along with creationism so that we don't offend Christians. We also have religious exemption here in which people are allowed to bow out of activities if they conflict with their beliefs.

Somehow, I don't think many people here would blink an eye if a student were exempted from certain science lessons because they are Christian and the outrage would be widespread and intense if they were denied... and rightfully so. That's what we do here, that is part of being American it's a very large part of our culture.

Accommodation is only hard when applied to people you don't like.

a reply to: tommo39

Switzerland doesn't have a religion.

originally posted by: Substracto
If my wife has to cover her head when in a muslim country, then I see no reason to treat them differently when they are in our own countries. No double standards.

There's no freedom of religion in most Islamic countries anymore, remember that's one of things that makes their governments oppressive and backwards and it's supposed to be one of the things that makes the West so great. Ironic.

Everyone so happy about the laws being upheld, and happy they are being rejected, ever wonder why it is the law that boys and girls have to swim together at school?

I mean, that is the law. I don't even think there is a law forcing such a thing in the United States, and never heard of such a law in any other country.

I really even didn't know such a law even existed.

Why did someone make a law stating that when children go to school they are forced, by law to swim all together, boys and girls, and if they don't they are breaking the law.

That is so weird.

originally posted by: PeterHawkes

ever wonder why it is the law that boys and girls have to swim together at school?

What a silly claim, why do you think there is a law stating that?

That is so weird

a reply to: PeterHawkes

It seems that their law for eligibility for naturalization requires that they complete the school curriculum. One of these curriculum requirements is swimming lessons.

It makes sense to me. I think such a law is a good first step towards integrating children into their new country.

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: tommo39

Interesting, what do they do to Swiss Muslim citizens in the same situation?

Does this means that there is no religious freedom in Switzerland?

I was wondering about this too. According to Wikipedia:

The basic right protected by the constitution is that of public confession of adherence to a religious community and the performance of religious cult activities. Article 36 of the constitution introduces a limitation of these rights if they conflict with public interest or if they encroach upon the basic rights of others.

Also apparently Switzerland does require full integration and has of late taken to denying naturalization for "not being Swiss enough". That's Switzerland's prerogative.

What's amusing in this thread is that it's mostly Americans commenting and here in the US we don't require integration and habitually bend over backwards to accommodate Christians. We still don't teach evolution in all public schools or teach it along with creationism so that we don't offend Christians. We also have religious exemption here in which people are allowed to bow out of activities if they conflict with their beliefs.

Somehow, I don't think many people here would blink an eye if a student were exempted from certain science lessons because they are Christian and the outrage would be widespread and intense if they were denied... and rightfully so. That's what we do here, that is part of being American it's a very large part of our culture.

Accommodation is only hard when applied to people you don't like.

Do the Swiss have transgender bathroom confusion?

And what do christians have to do with muslims not integrating in their new home country?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: boncho

Switzerland is not an EU member state.

On everything else we agree.

My mistake.Time limit has passed I can't retract it but oh well, same idea stands. I love Switzerland's bizarre pagan/goat/devil symbology they did in the opening ceremony for the recent tunnel completion. I'd hate to seem them lose that.



As much as every Youtube-Christian thought/proclaimed it was a tribute to Lucifer, I thought it was pretty damn cool. I was just reading about the Islamic rise in Middle East today, crazy to think all the Arabs used to worship Shiva or Pagan gods

Their country, their rules. Switzerland is one of the most difficult countries in Europe to naturalise in anyway.

a reply to: Kali74

Switzerland doesn't have a religion.

Most people in switzerland are christian, 71.8% to be exact. If you want to play semantics, stay negative and go elsewhere and be your obnoxious self......

a reply to: tommo39

Right but they haven't declared a national religion. It's not semantics and facts are not obnoxious.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

My points are not obscure. Do you think double standards are good?

originally posted by: imod02

originally posted by: TigStar82
I always find Muslims weird and contradicting, I have many Muslim friends, one of them was best man at my wedding (I call him my caramel brother from a Muslim mother lol). His girls aren't allowed to go swimming unless its a women only session which they don't do at our local pool, my daughters always asking their dad but he always says no because of the girls dignity. The whole dignity thing changes when we are walking down the street and we spot a good looking women to which his reaction is normally something along the lines of..."bloody hell mate, u see the arse/tits on that girl over there" He is British born so that's kind of normal lol but he still holds on to the beliefs of his parents and his faith when it suits him

Its all about power, muslim men have massive inferiority complex so they need to down women to feel like men. I remember I was teaching a young muslim man( about 22-25 years old ) He spent the first 15mins saying how European women did not understand that they are just dogs and should do everything a man says. So I asked him if he needs to marry a virgin, he said yes, I asked if he knew why , he could not answer, so I told him. If he married a non virgin she would know the normail size of a dick, so she would know how small his was. Never seen a young man about to have a heart attack before.

LOOOOOOL...that was brilliant. Hit'em where it hurts

a reply to: PeterHawkes

Actually, no, its not weird. Its Switzerland.

What you would find really weird is that at the public swimming pools, they ban bathing suits!

Its a cultural thing and the Swiss have long had this notion that integrated nude swimming accustoms children from a very early age to seeing people without clothes on as not erotic. They see the human body as beautiful, and work to eliminate the prurient mystery of not seeing people without their clothes on. Therefore, for example, Swiss (and other European) women freely breastfeed in public. Children soon become desensitized to seeing breastfeeding. They just see it as "natural". So the Swiss work to desensitize people to nudity. As a result, they have far fewer rapes and crimes against women.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: tommo39

The interesting thing about Christians that say this sort of thing about Muslims is it sounds like what an atheist would say about a Christian. I don't know if the O.P. is a Christian or not. I do tend to agree with the decision the government made.

I am an Atheist...and I will protect Christianity, but not so much the Muslim nation from all the garbage I am seeing spewing out from their faith...even seeing what Syrian refugees are doing to our local kids. Just terrible.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Abysha

They are a product of their fundamentalist and religious parents. Can't blame them for this.

All parents of children have a duty to bring up their children to assimilate

into the *world that they are living in.*


If they are fundamentalist and religious to the degree that they cannot live

by the rules of the country the are living in, they should move to a country

that accommodates their way of life, so as to be fair to their children?


Most countries accommodate all religions, however no religion has the right

to impose their particular views and practices on to another country and its

people.


I would think that should be obvious to everyone after all no one

walks into a neighbors house and starts off rearranging the furniture,

emptying the fridge and taking charge.........

Which is why I said I was "torn" on this. I agree with them enforcing their own standards in their own lands (no different than they expect from their own citizens) but it just sucks that it's the kids who caused it.

a reply to: Abysha

erm, i guess you meant to say:
that the muslim dad is the cause of these kids refusing to swim with boys...

originally posted by: tommo39
Switzerland is a CHRISTIAN country, so the status quo is in order. If you don't like it LEAVE.........

That doesn't answer the question: if a religion-based decision is considered "not Swiss enough", what does that mean for Swiss Muslims? Are they considered second rate citizens?

Or the freedom to chose their own religion only works for a specific religion, that of the majority?