Deuteronomy 21:21: Kill disobedient children

a reply to: AMPTAH

So, Christians don't stone anybody to death. Because, in the Christian season, such things are not done.

Is that Christian doctrine? Is it Christian doctrine that the death penalty is always wrong? Or, is it just stoning people to death that wrong? Should Christians refrain from sitting on juries that are contemplating capitol punishment?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: AMPTAH

Is that Christian doctrine? Is it Christian doctrine that the death penalty is always wrong? Or, is it just stoning people to death that wrong? Should Christians refrain from sitting on juries that are contemplating capitol punishment?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. " -- KJV, John 14:6

See, it depends on what type of "Christian" you are. According to Freemason Anders Brevik, he claims he is a Christian who does not believe in Jesus Christ.

So, there are obviously people who have different interpretations of what Christianity is.

But, if your type of Christianity includes a belief in Jesus. Then, the answer is clear: What would Jesus do?

According to Jesus, no one comes to the Father, i.e. Heaven, except those that follow his ways. So, if Jesus would sit on the jury, and make judgments, condemn the man to death, so can you.

If Jesus would not do these things, and you do them, then you can still be a Brevik type Christian. But, they aren't the same as Jesus Christians.

a reply to: windword

If I had my way, I would not sit on a jury whose purpose is to determine whether someone lives or dies. Unfortunately, the law in the USA may demand that I am.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Jesus does not want us to condemn people to death.


We will judge even the angels, therefore we should find it no problem to judge our affairs on earth.

It doesn't mean we should feel justified condemning people to death. Careful brother.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Unfortunately, the law in the USA may demand that I am.

Should that ever happen, you can legally recuse yourself, based on religious objection. As a matter of fact, in such a case, the prospective jurors will be asked about their ability to serve on a death penalty case as a preliminary to voir dire.

But, I think we can agree that Christians can support the death penalty, in various instances, and still be Christians, while others can oppose in all cases, and still be Christians. Right?

It's society, not religion, that dictates who dies and who lives, in courts of "Law".

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: windword

If I had my way, I would not sit on a jury whose purpose is to determine whether someone lives or dies. Unfortunately, the law in the USA may demand that I am.

This is very simple.

The law can require you to sit on the jury.

But, the law cannot demand that you find anyone guilty.

So, you can comply easily with both the law and your religion.

a reply to: windword

True, but I would not attempt to manipulate God. If I am given a duty to judge, I should not relinquish it.

a reply to: AMPTAH

I cannot be dishonest about judgment. It would be both immoral and illegal to justify a wrongful judgement based upon a manipulation of my beliefs.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: windword

If I had my way, I would not sit on a jury whose purpose is to determine whether someone lives or dies. Unfortunately, the law in the USA may demand that I am.

You dont condemn anyone, you just decide if they are guilty or innocent

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: AMPTAH

I cannot be dishonest about judgment. It would be both immoral and illegal to justify a wrongful judgement based upon a manipulation of my beliefs.

Was Jesus dishonest when he decided not to stone the prostitute everyone wanted to stone?

How do you separate your beliefs from your ability to judge?

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." -- KJV, James 1:8

Can you have "two minds", one for your religion and one for your civic duty?

And can these two minds disagree on how to judge any man?

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. " -- KJV, Luke 16:13

You have to choose whom to serve.

Once you've made the choice, all these questions become simple. But, if you try to "straddle two lanes" everything seems complicated.

a reply to: BlueJacket

"Muslim" is NOT a religion.They are groups/tribes/ sects of a people who were indoctrinated into and follow the Islamic "religion" from birth. Just as there are any number of other nationalities who are islamic.

Oh, also one thing I'll throw out here, has anyone at all wondered if those who translated words, thoughts etc attributed to God for however long it took to put the Bible and it's contents together...just may have taken a few literary liberties with it, maybe even put their own spin on them? After all isn't the Bible not only a couple thousand years old, and in a lot of cases stories had been told and retold, then written and rewritten and having been taken from word of mouth as passed on just MAY have changed during all that time? And in that time just how educated, let alone literate were the men who wrote the Bible? Even if a scribe was appointed to piece it together...by what standards were their words judged by? Wouldn't it have been pretty easy for said scribe(s) to write the words as he saw fit? Or storyteller to have embellished, or even detracted from those stories? Or is it ALL to be taken simply on "faith" alone?

It really makes me wonder how many children have been wrongfully killed because some clown wrote this in an old book.


Other than that, the mention of being a glutton and a drunkard leads me to believe it was meant to kill a violent addict son who was not contributing to the family or the society.

Anyways, as you can probably guess I don't practice religion, haven't for about 15 years. So my opinion on this should be taken with a grain of salt I suppose.

-Alee

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Profusion

Because it's idiotic and an early control mechanism. I'll make no friends saying it, but the 3 big Judeo Christian Muslim religions are truly bigoted, misogynist and downright evil.

I consider Christ's new law and the the golden rule as worthy of attention. I'm sure there's some to be found in the others mentioned as well, Sufism being the wisest example of Islam I have found.

Religion robs people of self discipline, self determination and personal power, something I believe we are intended to exercise.

Flame away

No flaming....I wholeheartedly agree.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
It's Old Testament.

Doesn't count, for Christianity that is.

This argument is funny. Half of the Bible is the OT, if it doesn't count why even have it padding out your book?

The old testament does count.

Matthew 5:17-18 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

However, man had misinterpreted the Law and Gods will. The Pharisees also followed the Law, but they were hypocrites and they did not get it right. In Matthew 12, for example, Jesus heals a man and plucks the heads of grain to eat as his disciples were hungry.. on the Sabbath. The Pharisees question his actions, as these things were thought to be forbidden on the day of rest. He responds by telling them (among other things) that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

Love thy neighbor as yourself and all that.

Point being, I find the old testament extremely important for many reasons. Jesus followed God's will perfectly. My belief is that if I am to call myself a Christian, then I am to try my best to live life as Jesus did.. and Jesus did follow the Law.

This also comes to mind, upon reading the discussed passage in Deuteronomy.

Romans 14:22-23 “So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.”

I would not ever find it okay in my heart to stone or kill a person. It is not an act of love, it does not come from faith.

a reply to: jimmyx

Was a joke

a reply to: Profusion

recommend killing disobedient children i

Yeah well....if you had been killed then there would be no thread!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
It's Old Testament.

Doesn't count, for Christianity that is.

This argument is funny. Half of the Bible is the OT, if it doesn't count why even have it padding out your book?

Here is a little morsel of simple theology

Old Testament, the Jewish law and history
New Testament, the Christian gospels and teachings
It's not very hard to work out if you have the intelect of a small child

Jewish Old Testament
Christian New Testament

Repeat it with me KS
Jewish Old Testament
Christian New Testament

Easy isn't it

a reply to: Raggedyman

No need to belittle and insult someone.

Especially when you are wrong; the old testament is just as vital to Christianity as the new. Everything is based upon it. You cannot truly understand the new testament without the old testament.

originally posted by: JustAnObservation
a reply to: Raggedyman

No need to belittle and insult someone.

Especially when you are wrong; the old testament is just as vital to Christianity as the new. Everything is based upon it. You cannot truly understand the new testament without the old testament.

Yeah you are right, I was belittling and insulting, my apologies to ks
But
It's stil two different books and laws, my point doesn't change
Old Testament is Jewisn, you know the rest
Unfortunately it seems you don't get it either

If the OT was lost the NT would stand on its own to Gentiles comfortably