Deuteronomy 21:21: Kill disobedient children

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
It's Old Testament.

Doesn't count, for Christianity that is.

Unless it's about LGBT folk. Then the OT is suddenly all important and wise.

a reply to: visitedbythem

Kids these days have no respect, consideration, or self control. They cost a bunch of money to raise, and then they are an imposition.

LOL! And "Git off my lawn"! Ah, 'tis an age old truth about the "kids these days"!

But, don't be confused, the Old Testament's god and his laws killed children with ease!

2 Kings 2:23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

And, Jesus never said he was against the stoning of mouthy teens, he just called the pharisee hypocrites for accusing him of disregarding the Law while they themselves habitually letting rebellious kids off with a slap on the wrist.

Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Lol I was raised in it...judge not my friend

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
It's Old Testament.

Doesn't count, for Christianity that is.

Unless it's about LGBT folk. Then the OT is suddenly all important and wise.

That's true for some.

It's a conundrum to me that one.


But then I try not to judge.
Wish those few would do the same.

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
Does killing disobedient children fall under "deeply held religious belief".....I mean, we can't go infringing on folks religion, right?

Which is why religious freedom protection acts scare the crap out of me.

One of my favorites:

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the Lord your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Have you performed your due diligence?

More than almost every human on this planet. No more than 10,000 know more than me concerning The Word. And I've entertained JWs, Mormons, SDA, SDR, and all fringe, not excluding Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians; Catholicism, Orthodox churches, Anglicans, and not neglecting to mention all the many off shoots.

But beyond the foolish denomination debacle, I'm well versed in the history of the Church, not only from a religious perspective, but a secular one as well.

But even knowing so much, that it would take a book to mention all that I've read outside the Bible regarding its historicity, but more importantly you are talking to one of the few people who actually understands the very spirit of the message of The Word.

True Christians do.

I boast in the Lord in that, but let me also judge myself.

According to Deut. 21 : 21, I might have been disposed of when I was younger.

Rightfully so.

But society is not clean like Israel was. We are gluttons and drunkards because the very environment of society in which we're trapped is utterly rotten.

Anyone claiming otherwise has a home in the clouds.

That's why Jesus came. To save me because Israel failed to.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Lol I was raised in it...judge not my friend

Wisdom isn't judging friend. I didn't call for harm against you.

I wasn't raised in it. I was called into it.

a reply to: Profusion

I personally think it is referring to the ones with no moral values.

Abortion should be legal until the 120th trimester.

a reply to: BlueJacket

I was raised in it

Then I sincerely hope you had a good shower and applied plenty of disinfectant (assuming "it" is religion)!

Nothing gets in the way of love of neighbor, stranger and self, as well as awe and respect for some creator and sentience to appreciate the universe, than arbitrary words edited by power brokers and telephoned over the ages while used by the truly evil for committing eons of vile, vile acts.

There is some portion of wisdom and love in every religion ... just like it exists in some portion in every sentience... the problem is inflexible application of rules that no matter where they originate, get mutated into human power trips that don't (forgive me) evolve with time or hold any total "Truth."

If something is SO polluted by extremism and dumb dogma and is used as an excuse for evil on a daily, sickeningly repetitious basis, then is it correct to identify oneself with that label? What would Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed (or Mother, Bob, Eris, etc., too) do? One would get the idea from a few things some wise folks said that any church resides within.

And really, any truly "divine" instructions would be written in one's very dna (or soul), or better yet, in the fabric of the created environment if it was so darned important... like in the stars or mountains... and NOT only put in a book (or one of many) that may and can be changed according to human whim.

But hey, if religion gets one through the night and gives an excuse to act benevolently, then great... problem is it seldom does and given enough thought, one should realize they don't need a team or label to act decently... especially a team with the bad history and reputation the big religions have... in my ignorant opinion.

a reply to: Baddogma

I agree, in your ignorant opinion.

Read Acts and Romans, then get back to me.

See you in a couple of days.

a reply to: Baddogma

If you become lazy, just read Romans 2:15.

Its a great and very clear teaching, its the reality of the law that God purposed on earth in the Theocracy of Israel, its very clear and easy to read.
Sinful disobedient children are to be executed, thats was the law, pure and simple
Dont like it?
Sorry, its what was called for, sin needs to be addressed, sin will be addressed in a very clear and purposeful way. God hates sin, keep acting up, keep being disobedient, keep causing trouble, break the rules with no regard
No slap on the wrist here, you keep breaking the rules and you will be punished, severely

Now remember, this is a rule, a law that a wayward child is aware of, if you wont change your way you can be condemned to death.

The rule was there in its simplest form to stop children from becoming and we all know in the majority of cases once a path of destruction is chosen as a child, the adult will be often much worse.
Nip it in the bud, at the youthful stage

a reply to: TarzanBeta

All good, sir... I hold no grudge over disagreement ... god gave me a brain and I like to use it (thanks big guy!).

I've read beautiful, true passages in the Bible and many other "holy" writings... but didn't some guy say "judge them by their fruits" or some such?

According to that premise, I am unimpressed with ALL of the "big 3" Mid Eastern Mystical Explosions' tomes and teams... but as I said, glad it works for you... keep at it then, and thanks for attempting to save my soul (if it wasn't an ego based attack, that is).

If you were trying to keep me outta heck, then that's quite sweet and back atcha.

a reply to: Baddogma

I actually wasn't doing any of that. I was only stating what I know.

Wish I could say I had a better intent, but I can't.

Stay out of heck, though, brother. I guess I should say that now. Since you brought that up. Lol.

But attacking? I save that for Chess. tarzanbeta84 on Chess Time. All are welcome.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Haven't played chess in years, but may take you up on it as I need a brain push up, or fifty...

and, just to show I DID actually consult the passage....

The Romans 2:15 quote does, as expected, touch on one of my points... any "Law" laid out by a creator WOULD be written in our hearts ... and stoning a son for a fit of pique, for instance, would lay heavy on my heart, lemme tell ya... and I would second guess any character advising me to do so... I'd try other, less lazy remedies, first...

and yeah, I know it's deeper than that, yadda yadda ... but should it be? Shouldn't it be accessible to all, especially the violent and stupid, instead of sometimes BEING violent and stupid? IF written on our hearts, then why the redundancy of the Bible, too? Seems like an awful waste of trees.

There is deep, pretty wisdom in that Bible... no argument at all, but it is overlooked by most and used as a bludgeon, deeply hurting many beautiful souls ... I've watched it up close my whole life.

But, I also know this is a debate that the ones who might benefit from reading it will see as an attack from evil, and so debate is really a circular race with no destination. I guess I'd only say to listen to that heart, and not so much to words written by ofttimes grumpy sheep herders eons ago. Be happy and non smitey!

a reply to: Baddogma

I don't see it as an attack from evil.

I see it as that the people that raised you in The Word didn't understand the spirit of the message and you've not yet experienced it. No fault of yours actually.

And take me up on the invitation, you will have fun!

a reply to: Profusion

Atheism is life, religion is death. Religion is always saying "fast"(starve) or abstain (don't reproduce) or kill

I keep telling people that pre-modern religion has many laws and ways that have more to do with ancient cultural way than God.

Amazing how people will criticize Islam for pre-modern views that are culturally adverse to modernity but won’t do the same to the Bible.

Christ, btw did not reject the entire Old Testament, if he did where did he draw the line?

At the 10 commandments?

Jesus’ brother James had a big fight with Paul and Peter over this, how to convert the gentiles by loosening the old Jewish law.

Yeah, yeah. Prior to Jesus coming it was the right thing to stone people to death.

But, the key thing is to understand the following verses:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: " -- KJV, Ecclesiastes 3:1

THE SEASON CHANGED WITH THE COMING OF JESUS !


"A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;" -- KJV, Ecclesiastes 3:2

Everybody is "put to death", without exception, when the time comes. We all die. We just think of it as end of life.

"A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;" -- KJV, Ecclesiastes 3:3

In some "seasons" it's time to KILL. That season is in the past. JESUS came. This is the new season.

So, Christians don't stone anybody to death. Because, in the Christian season, such things are not done.