Society is forced to be accepting of gays & transgenders.

originally posted by: Merrittzza
I agree.I don't care what you choose to do with your life. I have a few gay friends and I love them and they deserve the exact same rights as everyone else.I don't agree with their choice, and I also don't understand their choice. But who am I? Don't think of me as a bigot if I tell you how I feel.

I cant believe in 2016 there are still people who think its a choice. The mind boggles.


Tell me Merrittzza, when did you come out as straight? When did you decide to go for the opposite sex?

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Merrittzza
I agree.I don't care what you choose to do with your life. I have a few gay friends and I love them and they deserve the exact same rights as everyone else.I don't agree with their choice, and I also don't understand their choice. But who am I? Don't think of me as a bigot if I tell you how I feel.

I cant believe in 2016 there are still people who think its a choice. The mind boggles.


Tell me Merrittzza, when did you come out as straight? When did you decide to go for the opposite sex?

Why? What you are, what you believe and what you feel is not a choice. It is part of you. Actions you take because of that feeling is a choice. A pedophile that doesn't act upon his "feelings" hasn't broken a law. A person that craves alcohol but doesn't drink isn't an drunk.

I'm not saying that anyone should (in the case of gay people) hold back on their legal actions...but they are a choice.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Merrittzza
I agree.I don't care what you choose to do with your life. I have a few gay friends and I love them and they deserve the exact same rights as everyone else.I don't agree with their choice, and I also don't understand their choice. But who am I? Don't think of me as a bigot if I tell you how I feel.

I cant believe in 2016 there are still people who think its a choice. The mind boggles.


Tell me Merrittzza, when did you come out as straight? When did you decide to go for the opposite sex?

Why? What you are, what you believe and what you feel is not a choice. It is part of you. Actions you take because of that feeling is a choice. A pedophile that doesn't act upon his "feelings" hasn't broken a law. A person that craves alcohol but doesn't drink isn't an drunk.

I'm not saying that anyone should (in the case of gay people) hold back on their legal actions...but they are a choice.

You don't choose who you are attracted to. That's the point that was made.

Congratulation on missing it entirely.

a reply to: SpaceGoatFart

Religion is destroying itselfby not accepting people who are different.



I just think some people have to have a group to hate on, you see it in waves on ATS one month gay folk then transgender folk then the Muslims etc.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You are trying to split hairs. Yes, it is a choice, but it is a choice made on who they are.

You probably made a choice to drive a car to work (instead of a motorcycle) bc of who you are...you prefer the safety and comfort of a car vs. the excitement and discomfort of a motorcycle.

See how many times we can split hairs here?

Gays are gay bc of who they are, they make choices based on their attraction to the same sex.

Maybe I am saying the same thing you believe but people who do not know yet who they are, are usually the ones who are confused and judgmental...usually splitting hairs to try and prove a bigoted opinion.

Comparing pedophiles and drunks to gays is very ignorant.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Merrittzza
I agree.I don't care what you choose to do with your life. I have a few gay friends and I love them and they deserve the exact same rights as everyone else.I don't agree with their choice, and I also don't understand their choice. But who am I? Don't think of me as a bigot if I tell you how I feel.

I cant believe in 2016 there are still people who think its a choice. The mind boggles.


Tell me Merrittzza, when did you come out as straight? When did you decide to go for the opposite sex?

Why? What you are, what you believe and what you feel is not a choice. It is part of you. Actions you take because of that feeling is a choice. A pedophile that doesn't act upon his "feelings" hasn't broken a law. A person that craves alcohol but doesn't drink isn't an drunk.

I'm not saying that anyone should (in the case of gay people) hold back on their legal actions...but they are a choice.

Dont be ridiculous.

originally posted by: veracity

Comparing pedophiles and drunks to gays is very ignorant.

But it's a good indicator of someone's opinion about gays. That they are nefarious to society (not my opinion of course)

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: DeadFoot

You've so completely twisted any meaning out of anything that I said that I'll just skip it. I'm very tired of people who think I have to conform to the idea that gay sex is awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society. I'll never be mean to someone because of their lifestyle, but I don't agree with it. Your reaction falls pretty well in-line with everything else I hear in the news, on-line, etc. It's just more noise in the din and water under the bridge.

You're welcome to think I'm a brat for thinking so, but this is not the same as wishing for a return to slavery or some other nonsense. It's a misguided form of sexuality that acts as an evolutionary dead end and probably found itself shunned by most of society because it was an activity (much like other things that were shunned in the past, including adultery) that lent itself to the spread of disease. There are lots of modern work-arounds for this, so it's not as big of a deal now, but it's still not intrinsically good. That doesn't mean the people who engage in the activity are intrinsically bad, however. I disagree with the IDEA of homosexuality but hold nothing against individual homosexuals.

I'm also not interested in laws that prevent gay sex, gay advertising, etc. People have to be free to figure it out for themselves. It would just be nice if people could be a little more level-headed across the board.

You POOR thing!! It must be exausting have people FORCING you to accept gays. You poor thing. If only those gays would stop trying to gain the same rights as you.

Poor little girl. Life must be so hard

a reply to: 3danimator2014

I just want to know who is forcing her to think that gay sex is the "awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society."

That's pretty pompous. She needs to just stop conversing with those people forcing her to "conform to the idea that gay sex is awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society"

I had no idea people like that even existed...

wrong thread

a reply to: centrifugal

One theory I've heard before is that it is a biological response to overpopulation. Basically that we are programmed to stop reproducing when populations get out of control. I don't necessarily know this to be true, but it would explain how it could be a natural occurrence and becoming more common.

On a separate note, I don't think we actually know what the ratios were in the past. Given that they were oppressed not many of them were lining up to go public.

That's an interesting thought.. I may have thought that one before. Maybe some are also developing into a new race of hermaphrodites.

----

I don't know what the ratios were globally, but my observations are based on the people I meet. I feel like I know when I meet a gay person by the sound of their voice and the gestures they make. I meet a whole lot more than I did in the past on both sides.

originally posted by: SanitySearcher
a reply to: celinem

Gays are the most bigotted group on the planet

Yea, that's why the Toronto Pride Committee are soooo selective about who they let represent themselves at their events.

2-Spirited People of the 1st Nations
A for Asexuality & Aromanticism
ACTRA Toronto
Affirm-United-Interfaith
AIDS Committee of Durham Region
AIDS Committee of Toronto (ACT)
Alliance for South Asia
Allied Experiential on behalf of Netflix
AMAPCEO
Amnesty International Toronto’s LGBTI Action Circle
Asian Community AIDS Services (ACAS)
Association of Law Officers of the Crown
Aura Freedom International
Black Coalition for AIDS Prevention
Brock Pride
Build-a-Mas
Canada’s Ballet Jörgen
Canada’s Gayest Family
Canadian Foundation for AIDS Research
Canadian Mental Health Association, York & South Simcoe
Canadian Olympic Committee
Casey House
Centennial College
Church-Wellesley Village BIA
CIBC
Clean, Sober, and Proud
Cloven Path Ministries
Communist Party of Canada
Company
Conservative Party of Canada
Crime Stoppers Toronto
CUPE Local 79
CUPE Ontario
CUPW Toronto Local
Delisle Youth Services
Democrats Abroad
Downtown Aquatics
Downtown Soccer Toronto
Downtown Swim Club
Durham Regional Police
Égale Canada
Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario
Facebook and Instagram Canada
Federation of Canadian Naturists
Fido Solutions
Fierté Montreal
Fikir ve Sanat Atolyesi Dernegi – Turkey (The Workshop Association of Intellectuality & Artistics)
Foreskin Pride
Forte Toronto Gay Men’s Chorus
FrancoQueer
Frontrunners International
Frontrunners Toronto
FrostCon
Fudger House City of Toronto Long-term care
Gay Zombies Cannabis Consumers Association
Get REAL Inc.
GLgbt* – Glendon York U
Glow Centre for Sexual and Gender Diversity – Celebrating 45 years!
Google Canada
Green Party of Canada
Halton Region Paramedic Services
Hamilton Police Service
Hincks Delcrest Centre
HMCS YORK
Hope21 Korean Progressive Network in Canada
Humber College
IATSE
IBM Canada
INSPIRE Awards
IQ – Ismaili Queers
Jewish Family & Child
Kerry’s Place Autism Services
Kids Help Phone
Klick
Knox Presbyterian Church: Waterloo
Kulanu Toronto
Latino Group HOLA
Leather Contingent
Levi Strauss & Co. (Canada) Inc.
LGBT Doctors and Allies
LGBT Youth Line
LGBTory of Canada – The Rainbow Conservatives
Liberal Party of Canada
MCC Toronto
McMaster EngiQueers
Mercy For Animals
Metis Nation of Ontario
Metrolinx
MiGi Promotions
Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services
Molson Coors
Momentum Dance Toronto
NDP (New Democratic Party)
Nordstrom
Oasis Aqualounge Ltd.
OLG
Ontario Aboriginal HIV/AIDS Strategy
Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police Diversity Network Committee
Ontario Association of Social Workers, Central Ontario Branch
Ontario Association of Veterinary Technicians (OAVT)
Ontario Liberal Party
Ontario Nurse’s Assocation
Ontario Provincial Police
Ontario Public Service Pride Network
OPSEU (Ontario Public Service Employees Union)
OSSTF Human Rights Committee
OutSport Toronto
Oxfam Canada Toronto Community Group
Peel Regional Paramedic Services
Peel Regional Police
PFLAG Canada
Pieta House – Darkness into Light
Polyamory Toronto
Porter Airlines
Pride Toronto – Donations
Proud Anglicans
PSAC Pride
Queers Against Israeli Apartheid
Queer Students Community Centre
RainbOT
REX Pride
RNAO Rainbow Nursing Interest Group
Rogers Communications
RyePRIDE
Salesforce
Scotiabank
Sherbourne Health Centre
Shopify
Socialist Action
SOGIC (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Committee), a section of the Ontario Bar Association
Spearhead Leather Denim Social Club (Toronto) INC
St. Stephen’s Community House
Stanley Bradley
Steel Pride Committee United Steelworkers Toronto
Student Chapter of Lesbian and Gay Veterinary Medical Association
TD Bank
TELUS
The Beer Store and Local 12R24, UFCW
The Fruit
The Heterosexuals For Same Sex Equality
The Home Depot
The Toronto Fringe Festival
The Toronto Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
TJX Canada
TNT!Men
Toronto Bisexual Network
Toronto District School Board
Toronto Fire Services
Toronto Gay Hockey Association
Toronto Gay Sailing Club
Toronto Gay Ski and Snowboarding Club
Toronto Gaymers
Toronto Muddy York RFC
Toronto People With AIDS Foundation
Toronto Pflag
Toronto Police Service
Toronto Public Library Pride Alliance
Toronto Public Service
Toronto Russian-speaking LGBT community
Toronto Secondary Unit – OECTA
Toronto Spartan Volleyball League (TSVL)
Toronto Transit Commission
Toronto Triangle Squares
Toronto Vegetarian Association
Touhenboku
Trans Bisexual Lesbian Gay Asexual at York
Trans Bisexual Lesbian Gay Asexual at York (TBLGAY)
Trojan – Church & Dwight
True Davidson Acres
UFCW Canada (United Food and Commercial Workers Canada)
Unifor
University of Toronto Campus Police Service
University of Toronto Engineering
University of Toronto Mississauga Campus Police
University of Toronto Scarborough Campus Community Police
University of Toronto Students’ Union
University of Waterloo Engineering Society
Vita Community Living Services
Waterloo Regional Police Service
YMCA of Greater Toronto
York Region Paramedic Services
York Regional Police

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: DeadFoot

You've so completely twisted any meaning out of anything that I said that I'll just skip it. I'm very tired of people who think I have to conform to the idea that gay sex is awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society. I'll never be mean to someone because of their lifestyle, but I don't agree with it. Your reaction falls pretty well in-line with everything else I hear in the news, on-line, etc. It's just more noise in the din and water under the bridge.

You're welcome to think I'm a brat for thinking so, but this is not the same as wishing for a return to slavery or some other nonsense. It's a misguided form of sexuality that acts as an evolutionary dead end and probably found itself shunned by most of society because it was an activity (much like other things that were shunned in the past, including adultery) that lent itself to the spread of disease. There are lots of modern work-arounds for this, so it's not as big of a deal now, but it's still not intrinsically good. That doesn't mean the people who engage in the activity are intrinsically bad, however. I disagree with the IDEA of homosexuality but hold nothing against individual homosexuals.

I'm also not interested in laws that prevent gay sex, gay advertising, etc. People have to be free to figure it out for themselves. It would just be nice if people could be a little more level-headed across the board.

You POOR thing!! It must be exausting have people FORCING you to accept gays. You poor thing. If only those gays would stop trying to gain the same rights as you.

Poor little girl. Life must be so hard

Life's pretty good, actually.

I already "accept" gays, as people. As individuals, having multiple facets, I'm sure there are many points where a gay individual might agree. What I don't accept is their lifestyle as being a good idea--as in great for long-term health and well-being. I don't have to endorse another person's lifestyle anymore than they have to endorse mine. A best friend of mine since high school is very openly into open relationships, gay sex, alcoholism, chain-smoking, paganism and BDSM. I don't think that lifestyle is optimal or ideal, but when she was down on her luck, she stayed at my house and I happily helped her/her kids. We're still friends, but we don't agree on many points.

Again, no one seems to listen past the "I don't agree with the lifestyle and I don't want to be pressured to endorse it" portion of what I've said.

I'm not against gay marriage, or any contracts people want to draw up that are legally binding between adults--including some that are pretty morally repugnant to my worldview (adult incestuous relationships, polyamory, etc). As I've stated before, the best option is to simply STOP calling these contracts "marriage" for heterosexuals as well as everyone else...then leave the "marriage" business to separate religious or community organizations to perform. That way, religious people who don't agree, non-religious that don't, and religious that do agree are all free to do what they do.

More freedom is better than less, because every individual has to have the freedom to decide the course of their own life.

The only thing I take any issue with is societal pressure to ENDORSE a certain lifestyle.

I'd no more endorse homosexuality than a vegan would endorse a BBQ Taste Test--so what? Why push people to ENDORSE something they don't agree with. Isn't the freedom to do what you want enough?

And if that freedom isn't enough... if every person has to rubber stamp and celebrate it or else be a pariah... why is that?

How insecure is the LGBT movement that it requires both freedom AND endorsement/validation from every man, woman, and child in the country?

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: 3danimator2014

I just want to know who is forcing her to think that gay sex is the "awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society."

That's pretty pompous. She needs to just stop conversing with those people forcing her to "conform to the idea that gay sex is awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society"

I had no idea people like that even existed...

Force is probably an overstatement, but pressure to conform? Definitely. Simply holding firm to the concept that "maybe gay sex isn't great" in this thread has people's feather's all ruffled.

Just so we're clear:
acceptance (as in no discriminatory laws, freedom to do what you do, no impact on employment, treating people with respect as individuals) I agree. Yes. That's great.

endorsement (as in gay sex is intrinsically good, moral, correct and healthy for individuals as society and I'll happily encourage anyone to give it a go) Nope. Not going to happen. Sorry.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: SisterDelirium

I've actually thought about it, but no, I'm pretty happy with my own beliefs on the matter. And I will never agree with you. Not now and not tomorrow.

Perfect.

That's all you had to say.

Willful ignorance and stubbornness.

Even if proven 100% wrong by scientific study, continue to act as if a pre-existing "belief" is correct?

Never questioning what you think you know only ever results in the true knowledge of nothing.

All gay men should ignore the fact that oxytocin/dopamine is only released by other men, and that females do not give them an erection as a result.

It's much more sensible to go by your "beliefs" and slap their soft phallus against a vagina, or never have sex.

"WHY DON'T THEY RESPECT MY BELIEFS!

"

My point was....

There are many things that have been written both FOR and AGAINST homosexuality over time. There are examples of homosexuals and transgenders who have changed their minds, converted, etc.

I'm deeply entrenched in my worldview and principles--just as you are.

We could go back and forth, with you grabbing a study that supports your cause and me grabbing a study that supports mine. Then maybe an anecdote here for me followed by an anecdote for you.

In the end... there's evidence both for and against. The likely outcome being that you seek to debunk mine and I debunk yours. You think you've won, I think I've won (which isn't likely, because...this is the internet, where everyone plays and nobody wins...happily Hitler hasn't been mentioned yet...so play on).

I just don't want to feel pressured to endorse something that goes against my principles. I'm not saying you/yours shouldn't be free to do what you want. More freedom is good for people. I don't want a nanny-state, Nerf world where there are no bumps and we live some kind of forced morality.

I don't take or particularly like drugs, but I think a free society has to allow for it. The war on drugs is futile. Might as well let people experiment as safely as possible and not criminalize what people are bound to do anyway--if that's their bent. Same thing goes for abortion, divorce, etc. People have to be free to explore if they're going to fully understand anything and learn to make choices.

The thing is, while I'll endorse FREEDOM, I don't feel particularly happy about other people telling me what my principles should look like. OK, maybe state that opinion, but don't call people bigots and haters for disagreeing. Intellectual diversity is just another form of diversity that should be allowable in a free, pluralistic society...is it not?

originally posted by: celinem
okay, lets get one thing straight here.. My good friend of nearly 10 years is a lesbian and it's not an issue for me.
My problem is all of the hate people receive when they do not agree on the matter. I understand that everyone should be accepted no matter what but I don't appreciate that 'community' bashing others who have a different opinion about the matter. Savvy? a reply to: 3danimator2014

Celine, I agree with you 100%

A lot of people are even scared to speak up because if you disagree with their position you are immediately labeled as a "hater"... Those people who take that sort of position don't understand, or simply want to ignore that "disagreeing" is not the same as "hating".

It's unfortunate but it is the state of the world today, and it will only get worse.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: celinem
okay, lets get one thing straight here.. My good friend of nearly 10 years is a lesbian and it's not an issue for me.
My problem is all of the hate people receive when they do not agree on the matter. I understand that everyone should be accepted no matter what but I don't appreciate that 'community' bashing others who have a different opinion about the matter. Savvy? a reply to: 3danimator2014

Celine, I agree with you 100%

A lot of people are even scared to speak up because if you disagree with their position you are immediately labeled as a "hater"... Those people who take that sort of position don't understand, or simply want to ignore that "disagreeing" is not the same as "hating".

It's unfortunate but it is the state of the world today, and it will only get worse.

Just chiming in to add another voice of agreement.

Again, why are people who agree to disagree and allow for the freedom to do whatever the LGBT want...why are the labels of "hater" "bigot" etc applied to people who have no interest in limiting LGBT freedom?

And how are people who disagree insecure when they're willing to let you do your thing even if they don't agree?

To me, the insecure ones are the ones demanding endorsement of their lifestyle or else.

You are the proof that homophobia is not only a masculine thing. Other thing that hit me is, "Does homophobia have anything to do with homosexual tendencies?". Apparently, the answer to this age-old question is an unabashed “yes.” A past study, published by the American Psychological Association, was designed to “investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than non-homophobic men.” and it looks to me, women too.
elitedaily.com...
a reply to: celinem

a reply to: celinem

Yeah I'm sick of it. Can't turn on the radio, tv without hearing about this ones rights, bathroom bull, boys wanna be girls, whining about everything non-stop, black lives, native rights, holy Jesus Murphy, cut my darn thing-a-jig off ffs, everybody just shut the hell up. Lol. Pisses me right off truly. I own a small pizza place and see it all man, TODAY a short chunky buzz cut looking chick walks in wearing a shirt that says 'no one knows I'm a lesbian' ffs. I said yeah right, she says excuse me? Like wtf? I put in 12 hr days and straight home not looking left or right. I don't know what's going on man anymore, just wanna close up shop and go hole up somewhere

originally posted by: kita0dtita
You are the proof that homophobia is not only a masculine thing. Other thing that hit me is, "Does homophobia have anything to do with homosexual tendencies?". Apparently, the answer to this age-old question is an unabashed “yes.” A past study, published by the American Psychological Association, was designed to “investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than non-homophobic men.” and it looks to me, women too.
elitedaily.com...
a reply to: celinem

This "study" reminds me of a doting mom telling her social-skill-challenged child that the other kids don't play with them because they're all secretly jealous.