Society is forced to be accepting of gays & transgenders.

originally posted by: celinem
So I'm aware that I am going to receive A LOT of hate for this thread but i feel that there are others that will agree with me on this subject.

We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

Let me say straight up - I DON'T GIVE A # WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR 'GENDER' IS!!!! I don't care if you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or whatever..

What really grinds my gears is that we are hounded if we do not support them..

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

Opinions?

The government has NEVER cared about peoples rights.

It's quite obvious that there is an agenda. And it's all about taking away people rights while at the same time making money.

Now why would lobbyists have an interest in such a small percentage of the population? Normally lobbyists are there to increase power or make money for their money masters?

If the medical industry can convince every single American with 'gender dysphoria' to go along with sexual reassignment. Then ladies and gentlemen. We have a new market worth $30,000,000,000 US Dollars in United States alone. Why is Bruce Jenner the poster child? Simple, a male to female "reassignment" costs up to $28,000 worth of medical bills, over 3x that of female to male.


Better still, why not go along with putting the security of females at risk by allowing males into their bathroom? Hey, in the name of "freedom" ... in the name of letting people have the right to do whatever they want as long as they are in the bracket of "minority"...So now a problem is being created..... Why not install cameras in every single restroom in the United States. How much money could a company, sorry, Corporation make out of that?? I can definitely see it becoming law to install cameras in restrooms in the future. Meanwhile big brother wins another battle.

American corporations and lobbyists have only ever supported the gay rights movement when there is profit to be made.

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: DeadFoot

You've so completely twisted any meaning out of anything that I said that I'll just skip it.

I know.

They all do.

Those who have zero rebuttals to offer often resort to pointless moaning:

I'm very tired of people who think I have to conform to the idea that gay sex is awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society.

Strawman.

Nobody ever said that, and since you don't have an argument against what is actually being said, you make up absolute nonsense and try to argue against that. Hilariously, it circles back to your own personal persecution complex.

It's a misguided form of sexuality that acts as an evolutionary dead end

It's a little ridiculous to say that 5-8% of the population not procreating is going to cause humanity to go extinct.

I disagree with the IDEA of homosexuality but hold nothing against individual homosexuals.

Blame your god for coming up with that "idea", then. Humanity did not come up with the "idea" of homosexuality.

I'm also not interested in laws that prevent gay sex, gay advertising, etc. People have to be free to figure it out for themselves. It would just be nice if people could be a little more level-headed across the board.

You say after your slew of hyperbole.

Ever consider that differing opinions to your own might actually be correct and you're just being stubborn?

a reply to: Butterfinger

I wasn't trying to argue semantics. I agree that argueing semantics alone is silly. The point I was trying to make is that people defend bible verses by dancing around the words being said.

It doesn't matter if you have an opinion against homosexuality, or you are an activist. You are still judging them. You have made a judgement about their lifestyle.

The only way I can see one not having judgement is if one is a robot. They can only follow and obey God's Word. There is no choice or opinion. There is no free will.

It just seems like every cruel or ugly verse in the bible is danced around by christians. I'd have much more respect for christians if they were open-minded enough to consider that some authors were not truely connected with the divine, misguided, or constrained by their current culture.

Or, if not that, then admit their God is not a completely compassionate God. If anything, the radical christians or muslims are being more honest to their holy scriptures. If one believes everything in the bible is inspired by the divine, why aren't they out there stoning wiccans?

a reply to: blueman12

Christians(followers of Christ and his new Covenant) calls for the scripture I posted above.

The new covenant supersedes the old, as it was fulfilled. Besides all that the OT in large part was a covenant with and history meant for the Jews, not for Gentiles.

Anyway, what Christ left us in guidance does lead one to show mercy and not judge.

But! The guidelines are still there, as He said himself, he came to fulfill the Law, not invalidate or destroy it.

By the OT we know what is wrong and what is right.

By the New Covenant we are to temper that with the same love for each other as we do ourselves.

I can know what someone is doing is right or wrong, but what I do with that knowledge is where the line in the sand is drawn and most Christians get lost.

A sin is a sin, once you break the law, you are guilty of all of it. I am, everybody is guilty and a sinner. No one can be without sin.

So, to your point; To he who is without sin go ahead and start stoning Wiccans. You'll be meted out a punishment that you put upon them.

originally posted by: DeadFoot


I know.

They all do.

Those who have zero rebuttals to offer often resort to pointless moaning:

You did that with me in your own post, so I figured it was fair play. My mind isn't going to change. I don't think being gay is the greatest thing. I still don't hate people who are.

Strawman.

Nobody ever said that, and since you don't have an argument against what is actually being said, you make up absolute nonsense and try to argue against that. Hilariously, it circles back to your own personal persecution complex.

I don't feel persecuted. Again, persecution would be a completely different situation. The feeling I have is more annoyance than anything. It's like being exposed to a yapping dog for too long or a child that's particularly needy in terms of attention. That's really the category where I'd leave it. A nuisance/annoyance that generally doesn't bother me that much outside of election years when everyone and their brother suddenly becomes an activist.

It's a little ridiculous to say that 5-8% of the population not procreating is going to cause humanity to go extinct.

No, I don't think that humanity will go extinct from that. I didn't say that. Maybe a genetic dead end, then? The point is that homosexual sex doesn't serve much purpose. And to pre-empt your likely "well some people can't have kids" complaint, I'll just say this tab A fits slot B and pretty much every creature split into two sexes pairs up with the opposite sex. Yes, there are gay penguins, I guess, under certain circumstances, but it's not the norm (as in the big bump on the bell curve). It's also an indication that something's amiss in their environment. No, I'm not going to look for the study. I'm not that interested.

Blame your god for coming up with that "idea", then. Humanity did not come up with the "idea" of homosexuality.

Little g used, check. Born this way, check. Not buying what you're selling, still check.

You say after your slew of hyperbole.

Ever consider that differing opinions to your own might actually be correct and you're just being stubborn?

I've actually thought about it, but no, I'm pretty happy with my own beliefs on the matter. And I will never agree with you. Not now and not tomorrow. I'll take a wild guess that you'd say likewise. I could dig up articles and studies and apologetics, etc, but I'm not going to bother. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. If I find a study, it won't be the "right one" or if there's an article the article will be written by the "wrong author" and as for apologetics....no logical argumentation, however sound, will ever make a dent.

So bottom line takeaway:

I don't agree with you.

I agree everyone should be treated with respect and laws should err on the side of freedom for all/for all.

Being gay is still a lifestyle that I don't agree with on moral grounds...same goes for divorce, abortion, polygamy, pedophilia and incest. (p.s. Yes, I know I'm not supposed to link those two. Yes, I know you think that's horribly backward. No, I don't care.)

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: SisterDelirium

"I'm very tired of people who think I have to conform to the idea that gay sex is awesomest awesome thing to ever happen in society."

People are doing this to you? If so, then you are correct, they should not be making you think that.

"It's a misguided form of sexuality that acts as an evolutionary dead end and probably found itself shunned by most of society because it was an activity (much like other things that were shunned in the past, including adultery) that lent itself to the spread of disease."

Comparing it to adultery shows that you do not know much about gay, trans. I can see you are very sweet and wants what is best, but you also have a very narrow mind that is not allowing you to understand the full concept.

Re adultery:
Yes, I know what I'm "supposed" to think. I don't think that way. Not every sexual appetite needs to be sated. Just because a husband is neglectful or a wife gains wait, doesn't mean you can satisfy yourself with another partner. By the same token, people with same-sex leanings do not have to satisfy that interest. Just because a person wants something doesn't mean it's good for them or that they should have it.

But, again, I've no interest in laws to keep people from picking their own poison. We all do that, straight, gay, or otherwise.

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: SisterDelirium


but see, just the other day my husband came home from work and one of his work mates actually said he'd wish more people had died in the Orlando massacre. he said they're meant to die, it's in the bible....

i have a gay brother who is about the best person i know. he works for doctors without borders and has been to Haiti multiple times after their earthquake, for example. so, if i get heated in conversations titled like this one - tuff shiooooot!

also, we had ted cruz (while running for president!) meet with anti-gay pastor kevin swanson for Christ's sake. this guy want it to be a crime punishable by death. so again, yea, i get heated!

Well, your husband's friend isn't very nice, obviously. Cheer-leading the slaughter of innocent people who've done no harm is garbage.

I have zero doubt regarding the fact that gay people have good qualities. No doubt there are millions upon millions of kind-hearted, loving, caring gay people that make the world a little brighter just by being. That's what makes violence against anyone unthinkable. That's someone's child, sibling, etc. There's no ignoring the fact that every person is special and lovable in some way.

Ted Cruz and Trump are jerks, also. Ted Cruz looks like a Grandpa Munster mask and I couldn't imagine voting for him. Trump is orange Hitler. I'm voting for Johnson.

At any rate, again, I do not have anything against gay individuals. I do disagree with certain lifestyles, but if you looked at my list, it's not one heterosexuals match with, either, because I'm just as opposed to serial monogamy as I am homosexuality. Don't hate divorced people, either.

originally posted by: SisterDelirium

I've actually thought about it, but no, I'm pretty happy with my own beliefs on the matter. And I will never agree with you. Not now and not tomorrow.

Perfect.

That's all you had to say.

Willful ignorance and stubbornness.

Even if proven 100% wrong by scientific study, continue to act as if a pre-existing "belief" is correct?

Never questioning what you think you know only ever results in the true knowledge of nothing.

All gay men should ignore the fact that oxytocin/dopamine is only released by other men, and that females do not give them an erection as a result.

It's much more sensible to go by your "beliefs" and slap their soft phallus against a vagina, or never have sex.

"WHY DON'T THEY RESPECT MY BELIEFS! "

originally posted by: veracity
...
What happens is a gay couple comes in there excited to get married, holding hands and the baker says "NOPE" then hides behind the bible (which we all know that is not what Jesus would do).

That is bigotry and discrimination, what makes it even worse?....is they blame it on their religion.

Excuse me but show us where Jesus ever said he would agree with your position? He would only state that it isn't our place to judge others and to treat people in the LGBT with respect, but he wouldn't say it is ok and normal. You don't want to agree with the bible that's fine, but stop slandering a position you disagree with. You want respect? Then show you also respect people's opinion that disagree with yours.

Respect is never won by imposing your will. By imposing one side, that of transgenders the Obama administration is only going to worsen relations between people who disagree with the transgender views, and transgender people.

Dictatorships started in the past under what was thought at the time as "good intentions" that were imposed on everyone.

No matter how many "supposed good intentions" the Obama administration had for imposing the LGBT views on religious institutions, it is still authoritarian to impose that view.

Again, would people in the LGBT community want the government to impose the religious traditions on the LGBT community? I am sure you would be up in arms...

The State should always be separate from the church.

Oh, and btw. Now that the Obama administration is bringing more Muslim immigrants from regions that detest the LGBT community and have the most radical beliefs about the LGBT community, who do you think the Obama administration will side with when events worsen? It is inconceivable to believe that more attacks against the LGBT community won't happen.

The Obama administration is bringing thousands of Muslim immigrants and our own intelligence agencies, as well as foreign intelligence agencies have stated that ISIS has infiltrated Muslim refugees.

German spy agency says ISIS sending fighters disguised as refugees

Extremists have targeted refugee program to enter US, McCaul says

Are people really that naive they don't see what is happening?

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

Because they are human beings just like you. So why would you not support them. And until they have the same rights as you and I and are not shot en mass in clubs, or beaten up just for being LGBT, then the pressure will remain for everyone to support them and accept them. Very simple.

Yes they are human beings, but there are already laws that are against beating up, or killing people in the LGBT community... Imposing the Transgender views on traditional values is not going to help at all, it will only alienate more people against transgender views because their view is being imposed on everyone...

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Plus..."hounded"? Typical overly dramatic rhetoric from people like you. Do you have to run home because LGBT people are chasing you asking for acceptance? No? Well LGBT people have to run away from people who hound THEM just being born that way.

So, suck it up, stop whining and help your fellow man.

It doesn't make anyone more human by imposing the will of a few people on everyone...

There is a big difference between accepting people have a right to their own views, and imposing one view on everyone by force...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Well now, is this not rich?

I believe in the right of every person in society to live free. I believe a homosexual and a heterosexual ought to have utterly equal rights under the law.

However, no nation should be able to escape the consequences of its foriegn policy choices, and the American public should prepare themselves to ACCEPT the ramifications of decades, and decades of interventionist, unconstitutional interference with the affairs of nations not their own, interference that they have consistently failed to vote against, to prevent in even the slightest regard.

The CIA CREATED Osama Bin Laden and his cronies, made him what he became. They nurtured him and trained his men along with British intelligence agencies, they funded him and his allies and contemporaries, and that funding and support did not end with the end of the Cold War, but continued. Even to this very day, western powers continue to fund and facilitate terrorist activities in the Middle East.

This has been going on for decades, and the people of the United States, and indeed the United Kingdom have had AMPLE opportunities to rid themselves of the puppets that have been making this facade possible. The fact that they have refused, on countless occasions to make the hard choices, vote for honourable persons rather than elitist slaves to the owners of the free world, and allowed this crap to continue under their noses is a bloody travesty. While I utterly and totally condem the actions of any slave of the shadowy elite that run the world, whether they be pawns like ISIS, or the governments of the free world, it is the PEOPLE who must take power for themselves, take it away from those as have it, and wrestle the tiller of time from those who grasp it firmly with their tendrils at present.

All that happens from here on out, is going to be backlash. If you feel oppressed by your government, it is because your nations people have ALLOWED themselves to be oppressed. If you find things dumbed down, to the point where no one can make an informed choice, it is because your nations people have ALLOWED themselves to be turned into slaves. Take it from a man who learned everything he knows on his own time, and by his own methods, you do not need a state to educate you, you do not need a state to tell you who your enemy is, you do not need money to have an independent and accurate thought.

Given these facts, particularly the fact that it is not necessary to be told the truth, in order to know it, the simple reality is that there are always consequences to inaction, and more terror and less freedom are the consequence of appeasement and apathy.

Get on your high horses, educate your fellow countrymen as to the ills that have led us to this horrid point, show your countrymen that there is still grit in the mixture, and remind them how to find it for themselves!

Your nation, the continued existence of our very species depends precisely upon it!

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry, I don't respect bigotry (your opinion) ever!

a reply to: celinem

I don't much like anything shoved in my face.

It's definetly a thing though.

I've noticed it for some time now....

Doesn't mean I can't still support my lgtb friends.

Hell, they have even acknowledged the shift of spotlight and mainstream support.

Hard to deny.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Excuse me but show us where Jesus ever said he would agree with your position?

I'll just let you answer your own question and move on

He would only state that it isn't our place to judge others and to treat people in the LGBT with respect

I agree.I don't care what you choose to do with your life. I have a few gay friends and I love them and they deserve the exact same rights as everyone else.I don't agree with their choice, and I also don't understand their choice. But who am I? Don't think of me as a bigot if I tell you how I feel.

a reply to: celinem

Just ignore those naysayers or critics. I personally felt the same like you do.

Just like one of the member here said : It's a form of social engineering.

It's not like you're against the LGBT people personally, anyway.

a reply to: celinem

Gays are the most bigotted group on the planet

I don't know about anyone else but I'm so busy just trying to live my life that I don't have time to be hounded or pressured into anything...lol Between work, my spouse, elderly parents, other family, 2 crazy cats, bills, household projects, planning and making dinner every night, what seems like never ending laundry, hopefully some R&R and maybe some fun, I'm busy. I think most of us are busy busy busy. I mind my own business, and take care of my own. I treat everyone as I would like to be treated. I don't push my beliefs or opinions on others. As for other peoples opinions and beliefs they really don't have any affect on my life because I don't allow it. My life and routine keeps chugging along no matter what happens.

Yes I'm a lesbian, but it doesn't define me. I'm sorry that some people are feeling pressured or hounded about the LGBT community. They are just trying and wanting to be recognized as human beings with all the same rights as others. Lest not forget that it was't that long ago that women in this country couldn't vote. We were basically property and had no rights or voice. Passed by Congress June 4, 1919, and ratified on August 18, 1920, the 19th amendment granted women the right to vote. The 19th amendment guarantees all American women the right to vote. It was only in 1965 that woman were free to use birth control. For the first time they had control over their own bodies. Lets not forget The Holocaust was the systematic persecution and murder of approximately six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators between 1933 and 1945. And even less time ago, African Americans were fighting for their right to be treated as human beings. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) is a landmark piece of civil rights legislation in the United States that outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. I feel the LGBT community falls under that Act. If the human race could only learn from its mistakes and history. Sadly we can't so we are destined to repeat it. Sorry the fight for equal rights by the LGBT Community is inconvenient and annoying but its warranted.