Revelation by a Freemason

Originally posted by madhatter


Hi ML I do realize that the site was garbage, I was just pointing
out some of the crap thrown about regarding Freemasonry

I know, I just wanted to comment on the Schnoebolen thing. This guy, like Decker and Chick, has gotten rich by making that stuff up and selling books about it.

Originally posted by Osirisrisen
However, a 32nd degree Mason says these things and he's a raving lunatic, according to you.

A couple of points here: it still hasn't been demonstrated that your friend is really a Mason, or even that he really exists in the first place. On the other hand, if I'm not mistaken, most of the Masons who post regularly on this forum are 32° Scottish Rite Masons.

But, to test your story against the sword of logic, let's consider: let's assume that your story is real, at least hypothetically. If we're all involved in some sort of secret cabal of world domination or satanism or communism or zionism or whatever it is you claim that he's told you (I've already forgotten), why would he tell all of this to you?

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Masonic Light]

its a plot to kidnap all the worlds twinkies, right?

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
its a plot to kidnap all the worlds twinkies, right?

Zingers, man, zingers! Jeez, come on dude you always get it switched around. The Scottish Rite is after the zingers. It's the Illuminati that want the twinkies, along with the ho-hos because they're just eeeevil like that.


[edit on 2/1/05 by The Axeman]

along with the ho-hos because they're just eeeevil like that.

now your starting to sound like Jerry falwell. He IS the one that decided
that Snow White was a prostitute because the elves always sang Hi-HO, HI-HO
when they saw her. right?

Well, thank you for coming into our forums and insulting the membership that you have read for what? A week?

BTW ML, doesn't the festival of Saturnalia have something to do with the placement of Christmas?

Im not ML but I do agree with him on this . but yes the placement of xmas was done by the RCC to overshadow the winter solstice saturnalia festival of the pagans to gain catholic converts. Most christians tend to over look this (like Ishtar eggs). Personally Im rather disgusted with the practice of passing off these holidays as their man made religion. Either be christian or dont.
www.realtruthmag.org... (it has its references in the article. I dont endorse this sites other pages necessarily. )

ML besides all of those honors and titles which I will be googling shortly , you mentioned aliester crowley was mainly a part of irregular masonry. Could that have been his attempt to hijack regular masonry per his illuminati scheme for global domination. If so , do irregular lodges such as the ones you mentioned (and P2 i think is one), not being under the jurisdiction of a Grand Lodge, trace their history back to this? If that being so is it impossible that they are the secret behind this mason bashing that you "Defenders of Light" keep having to the defend the actions of (by proxy).

And masonry Sun God figures are not compatible with Judaism I believe (deut 4), nor will a NT endorse the worship of the creation rather than the creator. Isiah 49-54 can pretty much document Jesus. I doubt Isiah was a worshipper of mithras or whatever.

I know why he told him. Its because he would blabber it the first chance he got. im sure someone smart enough to get to a higher echelon of NWO would just take the risk.

more than likely, they become muscians if they want to blab (either for exposing or for propoganda purposes).

Originally posted by Masonic Light
But, to test your story against the sword of logic, let's consider: let's assume that your story is real, at least hypothetically. If we're all involved in some sort of secret cabal of world domination or satanism or communism or zionism or whatever it is you claim that he's told you (I've already forgotten), why would he tell all of this to you?
[edit on 1-2-2005 by Masonic Light]

We would discuss things pertaining to Freemasonry and I would question him. I was curious. He would basically use quite a bit of double talk to explain things. He really is the only one that can answer that question. Just like I had another friend that would drink get liquored-up and ran his mouth.

Originally posted by NuTroll
ML besides all of those honors and titles which I will be googling shortly , you mentioned aliester crowley was mainly a part of irregular masonry. Could that have been his attempt to hijack regular masonry per his illuminati scheme for global domination.

Crowley never said anything about world domination. His major goal in life was to institute a system of spiritual and intellectual attainment per scientific methods.

His motto was "The Method of Science, The Aim of Religion", which he chose to illustrate this point. He believed that spiritual truth can only be found in personal mystical experiences, but he strongly criticized the status quo of the occult community for "mystifying mysticism". According to Crowley, higher consciousness is the result of scientific biological changes in the chemistry of (primarily) the brain, and he taught that certain practical methods could induce this state.

Taking a good bit from Jung and Freud, he believed that archetypal images and symbols had profound effects on the subconscious; therefore, he believed that subconsciousness could access higher forms of consciousness through training. Crowley's brand of training came in the form of Ceremonial Magick, wherein the student works with symbol and repetitive ritual, eventually internalizing into subconsciousness a quest for the higher spiritual nature which becomes more easily accessed through personal experience.

His ideas were not novel at all; indeed, they are the basis of all practical occultism. What makes Crowley so unique is that he was the first person to state these things openly in plain language instead of veiling them behind mystic-sounding allegories. Many of the Adepts of Occultism criticized him for revealing the secrets of Magick to the unworthy; they all, for centuries, only wrote their occult books in symbols, which only the initiated could interpret correctly. If they fell into the hands of the uninitiated, they would only read allegorical stories about conjuring demons and rites of invisibility, which they would then simply call ridiculous, and cast aside. In this way, those who were not ready for spiritual evolution would misunderstand occultism, and would simply ignore it.

Crowley, on the other hand, believed that mankind was at the point of a new age in evolution, which he called the "Aeon of Horus", where it was finally time to introduce everyone to the true teachings instead of just allegories. For example, Crowley revealed to the uninitiated for the first time that the "demons" spoken of in Magickal texts were only secret codes that represent parts of our consciousness that oppose our Higher Will. Therefore, the allegory of the Magician first conjuring, and then banishing a demon is interpreted as something similar to the Magus finding a part of his Lower Self to be overcome, whether it be greed, lust, etc., then objectifying it, and then ceremonially banishing it, casting it out from himself.

If so , do irregular lodges such as the ones you mentioned (and P2 i think is one), not being under the jurisdiction of a Grand Lodge, trace their history back to this? If that being so is it impossible that they are the secret behind this mason bashing that you "Defenders of Light" keep having to the defend the actions of (by proxy).

Crowley's Lodge was regular in its actual working; in other words, if you were to have visited his Lodge, you would have found no real difference between it and the regular Lodges, except only that Crowley's was under jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of France, which is not recognized (the National Grand Lodge of France is the regular one).

P2 is a different story. They did not even use Masonic rituals. They wrote their own rituals of initiation, which did not bear any resemblance to Masonry at all; in fact, several parts of P2 ritual directly contradict what is taught in Masonic ones.

Most irregular Lodges, like Crowley's, are rather harmless, and most of them follow, more or less, the same system as regular Masonry. The major differences are that some admit women, while others eliminate all references to God and admit atheists.

From what I understand:

Quote: "while others Eliminate all References to God and admit Atheists."

= How Illuminati happened to come into being! Masonic_Light - what is your Opinion on this?

I think that some people get this concept mixed up -> You can refer to "GOD" simply as "GOD" or the "Universe" or even "Nature". Masons try to be Open & Inclusive when they refer to GOD as "Grand Architect of the Universe". Architecture being a part of "Operative Masonry"! You see how this is different from Specifically saying the "Jewish God" or the "Christian God" or the "Moslem God" or "Pagan god(s)"!


[edit on 2-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
From what I understand:

Quote: "while others Eliminate all References to God and admit Atheists."

= How Illuminati happened to come into being! Masonic_Light - what is your Opinion on this?

The Illuminati conferred the three degrees of Craft Masonry on their candidates, and like regular Masonry, they required a non-sectarian belief in God. In reality, most of the members of the Illuminati were Deists, but several members of the Illuminati were Christians. For example, Weishaupt's Deputy Adolph Von Knigge was a Lutheran minister.

You are certainly correct that Masonry's requirement of a belief in God is generic, requiring no dogmatic tests.

This is a question for Masonic Light. There are many occult or esoteric organizations of which I am a member of several. I am just curious as to your explanation as to why there are so many conspiracy theories relating to Freemasonry? Where did they come from and how did they get started? I am asking you and all the others that say these accusations are unfounded. Why Freemasonry and not all of the others?

Originally posted by Osirisrisen
This is a question for Masonic Light. There are many occult or esoteric organizations of which I am a member of several. I am just curious as to your explanation as to why there are so many conspiracy theories relating to Freemasonry? Where did they come from and how did they get started? I am asking you and all the others that say these accusations are unfounded. Why Freemasonry and not all of the others?

Conspiracy theorists attack all fraternal societies that operate in a semi-secret manner, not just Masonry. If you are a member of some sort of lodge society, especially an overtly occult one, you can very well bet that your organization has been attacked by the conspiracy theorists.

Most conspiracy theorist websites and books also make up conspiracies concerning the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the various Thelemic groups, the Rosicrucian groups, the Knights Templar, etc. For example, the Bible Believers website calls the Hermetic Order of the Golden one of the first modern "satanic churches", even though, in reality, that organization was almost purely Christian.

But Masonry usually gets the most publicity by these people simply because it's the largest and most well-known of the esoteric fraternal orders. As G.H. Gerberding wrote in the introduction to Martin Wagner's anti-Masonic book "Freemasonry Interpreted":

"The whole secret society system with its countless lodges and their organizations, is an outgrowth of Masonry. All the secret societies, even the so-called minor orders, have assimilated and incorporated more or less of the fundamental principles of Masonry. A comparison of their various rituals with the rituals of Masonry demonstrates this fact.
"Our author has elected to write this elaborate, scholarly and exhaustive work on Masonry. What he claims and charges against that system applies with more or less force against the whole secret society system."

Rev. Wagner, however, was not a conspiracy theorist. His position against Masonry (and other semi-secret societies) was that the organization is Kabalistic instead of evangelical Christian, and therefore that it should be avoided by Christians.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Masonic Light]

Quote: "For example, the Bible Believers Website calls the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn one of the first modern *"Satanic Churches"*, even though in reality, that organization was almost purely Christian."

I HATE these F*****G RETARDED SLANDERING IDIOTS!

Quote: "The organization is Kabalistic (Christian) instead of
*Evangelical "Christian"* & therefore that it should be avoided by Fellow "Christian" (Sheep).

Or so you mean they they were REAL - LITERATE - CHRISTIANS instead of Retarded, Pope Worshiping, Superstitious, Dogmatic, Idiotic, Slandering Vulgarians! Interesting!

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Are you "Riding the goat"?

You won't get much out of true believers. When you have everything you've ever wanted and dreamed of, why would you want to turn away from it?

A smart man uses people. Manipulates them, makes them think what he wants them to think. Masons are masters of that.



[edit on 4-2-2005 by Kai-Raega]

Originally posted by Kai-Raega
Are you "Riding the goat"?

You won't get much out of true believers. When you have everything you've ever wanted and dreamed of, why would you want to turn away from it?

A smart man uses people. Manipulates them, makes them think what he wants them to think. Masons are masters of that.

Wooooooow.

You came up with that all by yourself, didn't you?

[edit on 2/4/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Kai-Raega

A smart man uses people. Manipulates them, makes them think what he wants them to think. Masons are masters of that.
[edit on 4-2-2005 by Kai-Raega]

How would you know?

yes,pagan occultism, mysticism, and christianity are non compatable, despite what the Rcc might do sometimes.

I take no side in this argument, just find it amusing to read. one thing really jumped out at me. the original post referenced a connection to witchcraft. on the first page alone there were several people, masons & non-masons alike, that instantly turned that into satanism. why is that? seems like some of you jumped all over an assumption just like you are bashing the original poster for.

edit:typo...its getting late & I'm getting sleepy.

[edit on 5-2-2005 by metalmessiah]

Originally posted by Kai-Raega


A smart man uses people. Manipulates them, makes them think what he wants them to.

Exactly the opposite. A smart man doesn't need to manipulate people.
If a man is right, people will follow him willingly. It's only those who can't see this truth that feel that they are being manipulated.