Revelation by a Freemason

I have an associate that is a 32nd Degree Freemason. He divulged some very interesting information to me. He said that Freemasonry was in fact part of the "new world order". He said in the higher levels there is an element of withchcraft. He said that you are not aware of what is really going on until it is too late. You can take that how you want to. He said he was given a seal. The seal could be used to stamp and seal legal documents that would be recognized by another high level mason. He said those at the lower levels have no idea what masonry is really all about. He said that a person was safe in the first three degrees, but I guess once you advance beyond that you are not as safe. He stated once you began to advance beyond the blue lodge you are told to forget everything you learned in the first three degrees, becuase it was false and misleading information. He appeared to be sincere with his information. I don't know if he was telling the truth or not, but it sounds pretty interesting.

I don't know much about masonry but what 'rite' or series or whatever is he in? I know that different groups do things differently.

Needless to say I think people here on both sides would be interested in hearing more from your friend. Perhaps you could post by proxy for him?

What made him say the stuff in the upper level was satanic?

What is this 'seal' supposed to do precisely?

Why didn't he leave it after getting into the unsafe levels?

Is he prone to paranoia or no?

Is he still in it?

How is it supposed to be part of the 'New World Order'? What makes him realize this but other 32nd degree masons not? Or is he saying they are all in on it?

it sounds like you might be the next dan brown!

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't know much about masonry but what 'rite' or series or whatever is he in? I know that different groups do things differently.

He is a member of the Scottish Rite.

Needless to say I think people here on both sides would be interested in hearing more from your friend. Perhaps you could post by proxy for him?

What made him say the stuff in the upper level was satanic?

He didn't go into detail but he did mention Aleister Crowley.

What is this 'seal' supposed to do precisely?

Well, I think this pretty much self explanatory. It enables you to clear legal problems and assist others. It enables you to be recognized so that you may receive the benefits of masonry whether you are in person or send something in the mail.

Why didn't he leave it after getting into the unsafe levels?

What I gathered is whenever what is done is completed there is no undoing it.

Is he prone to paranoia or no?

No.

Is he still in it?

He is not currently active, but the experience and knowledge can never be taken away.

How is it supposed to be part of the 'New World Order'? What makes him realize this but other 32nd degree masons not? Or is he saying they are all in on it?

He says that it is one of the components that will usher in the order. Microchiped population with rights and freedoms gone. What more do you want? Other 32nd Degree Masons know the same thing but they will not dare speak about it, according to him.

I am a 32° Scottish Rite Mason, a Royal Arch Mason, Royal and Select Master, and Knight Templar in the York Rite, Past Master in my Lodge, and hold various side and honorary degrees including Royal Ark Mariner, Super Excellent Master, and the Order of the Secret Monitor. That being the case, I'd like to address the alleged comments.

Originally posted by Osirisrisen
I have an associate that is a 32nd Degree Freemason. He divulged some very interesting information to me. He said that Freemasonry was in fact part of the "new world order".

Freemasonry is an international fraternal organization. No true member would ever make such a claim; indeed, it is the conspiracy theorists who believe in a "new world order", not Freemasons.

He said in the higher levels there is an element of withchcraft.

I'm not sure what you mean. If by "witchcraft" you refer to the religion popularly known as Wicca, then this assertion is false because Freemasonry far outdates that religion. It is true that Wicca borrowed elements from Freemasonry; but Freemasonry did not borrow from Wicca.

He said that you are not aware of what is really going on until it is too late.

This statement alone proves to me that the individual who told you this is lying. What's "going on" is whatever the members of the Lodge vote for. And all members have a vote and a voice in the proceedings of the Fraternity.

He said he was given a seal. The seal could be used to stamp and seal legal documents that would be recognized by another high level mason.

The only person who gets a seal is the Lodge Secretary. The Secretary uses it to stamp membership cards he issues when members pay their annual dues. Each Lodge has a different seal, which is similar to one used by notary publics, and it usually has imprinted the Lodge name and number, with the Square and Compass. No individual members are given seals except the Secretary.

He said those at the lower levels have no idea what masonry is really all about.

There's no such thing as Masons at "lower levels". All Masons are equal. That's sort of the whole point in brotherhood. Those who have been elected leaders in the Fraternity (and I've been one) serve their terms, then retire to their successors. The Worshipful Master of a Lodge is simply the first among equals, and when his term expires, he returns to his seat among the Brethren.

He said that a person was safe in the first three degrees, but I guess once you advance beyond that you are not as safe.

And what exactly did he mean by "safe"? A Masonic degree is nothing more than a theatrical presentation, similar to a play. In each degree, some legend is re-enacted, the purpose of which is to teach some sort of moral. There's certain nothing "dangerous" about a Masonic degree.

He stated once you began to advance beyond the blue lodge you are told to forget everything you learned in the first three degrees, becuase it was false and misleading information.

Tell your friend that ML from ATS said that this is an outright lie. For example, in the 30°, a certain symbol from the Second Degree is shown to the Candidate again. It is then explained to him that the purpose in showing him a Second Degree symbol is to remind him that he is never to forget the important truths and lessons taught in the proceeding degrees, just because he has moved on to another one. The Ritual itself contradicts your friend's statement entirely.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I am a 32° Scottish Rite Mason, a Royal Arch Mason, Royal and Select Master, and Knight Templar in the York Rite, Past Master in my Lodge, and hold various side and honorary degrees including Royal Ark Mariner, Super Excellent Master, and the Order of the Secret Monitor. That being the case, I'd like to address the alleged comments.

ML, I've never really messaged with you before, but I just want to say that it's great to have someone like you around to shine light on some of these guys that try to do nothing but bring down and organization that has done nothing but help not only its members, but those around it as well. I thank you for fighting as hard as you obviously do to defend the reputation of our Craft from the attacks of its enemies.

That said, don't you ever get tired of the ignorance displayed by some of these posts?

ML, I've never really messaged with you before, but I just want to say that it's great to have someone like you around to shine light on some of these guys that try to do nothing but bring down and organization that has done nothing but help not only its members, but those around it as well. I thank you for fighting as hard as you obviously do to defend the reputation of our Craft from the attacks of its enemies.

That said, don't you ever get tired of the ignorance displayed by some of these posts?




I do not mean any disrespect to Masonic Light, but there is no one authority when it comes to Masonry or any type of occultism. If you believe there is, then you my friend are the ignorant one. I simply stated something that was revealed to me by a verifiable 32nd Degree Mason. I'm not going to argue or defend the point. I don't believe anyone here can prove or disprove what he said. Everyone here knows what they know and were taught and that's it. There is no one Freemason that has visited every lodge and knows what goes on in each one. And sir I really resent your arrogance like you somehow do. If you do know what goes on in every lodge can you please provide proof Mr. Sebatwerk. I find that astounding.

Well said, I see that you have met the mason lobby here on ATS.
I don’t know what to say about your accusations, I have never heard anything like that about masons, outside the accusations about them being related to the illuminati and therefore the NWO. My arguments with them have been based solely on religious belief conflicts between Masonry (Luciferianism/Cabala) and Christianity.

So I offer you a piece of advice based on my experiences with this. Don’t even bother, it is impossible to have a fair and balanced conversation about the masons on this board. There are too many mason trolls here that will tag team you until you just give up. Even the mods seem to support them. This really makes no sense to me considering the amount of conspiracy theories that surround the masons as a group that it impossible to discuss them on a conspiracy theory website without them using wolf-pack tactics on you.

It is impossible to convince them that there organization is so large that there could be factions within it that do things beyond what the normal Blue Lodge does, which just boggles my mind. They all speak like they are personally at the Highest possible echelon in their order, and there is nothing beyond them or that they would not know about.

I actually had an argument with a friend about this same thing when he was trying to say that there was no higher level or corporate entity to the masons. We passed the Shriners World Headquarters when this came up and I asked him who it was that ran that group in there, He could not answer, because he knew that the personnel in there where actual paid employee’s of something that he claims does not exist. Point being it is not staffed by 32 level shriner volunteers, but actual corporate employees of something that has a corporate structure which they deny exists.

Quote: "*New World Order*".

Here we go again! Yeah buddy I am SURE a 32nd Degree FreeMason divulged Secrets to YOU - an obvious NON-MASON.

It looks like the more Insidious "Brainwashing Cult" are the
RIGHT WING Conspiracy Theorists! They are the ones that seem to be OBSESSED with an "NWO" & "SATAN". The garbage that comes spewing forth from these people is FAR more Dangerous than anything in FreeMasonry!

Please stop posting your Silly Fantasies on ATS - give us something Substantial to work with!

Originally posted by Osirisrisen
I do not mean any disrespect to Masonic Light, but there is no one authority when it comes to Masonry or any type of occultism.

Then what makes you think that your friend is an authority?


You sort of shoot yourself in your own foot there, dude.

It has crossed my mind a number of times to suggest that the fine folks who own and operate AboveTopSecret.com might ought to consider making a seperate site called "Bash the Mason" or some such.

It is not a matter of my being a Mason or not. It is, however, tiresome to see these threads pop up with some wild Satanic/NWo type of accusation, made by folks who obviously have no real insight themselves. Often these sordid tales are passed to the poster by a friend of a friend, or someone's Aunt's Uncle's Sister's Cousin's Great-Grandfather. Then, so it would seem, the Masons gather to, once again, defend the faith, while folks who have never been in a Masonic lodge meeting jump to defend with further surmises, often based on suspect sites or pictures with swastikas, and/or pentagrams drawn over salient points.


Seems to me that if you want to put down the Masons, that it might be better to go join a lodge. Find out what you want to find out and then draw a logical or even an emotional decision based on something other than an anonymous poster.

It's funny to me that folks will sit here and argue from points of ignorance (not being personally aware of the facts) about evil going on in Mason meetings and their nefarious plans for taking over the world. I also, wonder why (but to their credit) that Masons will gather and try to enlighten the folks making the statements/accusations.

My personal feeling is that if you aren't paying my bills or putting food on my table, then you are entitled to think what you want, and I frankly, could not care less. The folks here, who appear to be Masons, are, so it would seem, trying to simply educate the rest. They do not do so, so it would appear, for the sake of money or personal agrandizement, but simply to eliminate the ignorance regarding a brotherhood. If you want a real challenge, try to get into the inside of the Bloods or Crips, or some other gang of "Homes".

Get off your butts and personally find out what is reality before you limit your own knowledge. After all, it seems to me that it is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. If you investigate and find something truly evil there, then draw that conclusion, post your findings and go at it from that point of view. Then you have something worth getting involved in.

The way many folks go at it now would cause Nero Wolfe (were he a real entity) to simply say, "Pfui"!!!!

If you want a real challenge, try to get into the inside of the Bloods or Crips, or some other gang of "Homes".

whats that all about?

Originally posted by Drew Da General

If you want a real challenge, try to get into the inside of the Bloods or Crips, or some other gang of "Homes".

whats that all about?

Simply other groups of people united by a common belief in brotherhood/sisterhood, who have activities that are sequestered from public view. No offense intended or implied.

Further, I am truly sorry if that's all you took away from my post.

Originally posted by Osirisrisen
I do not mean any disrespect to Masonic Light, but there is no one authority when it comes to Masonry or any type of occultism.

This is true, but it sort of contradicts your earlier statements (or your friend's), at least in regard to Freemasonry.

I simply stated something that was revealed to me by a verifiable 32nd Degree Mason. I'm not going to argue or defend the point. I don't believe anyone here can prove or disprove what he said.

OK. Assuming fot the moment that you're telling the truth, and someone did tell you what you claimed in your first post, my question would be: how do you know that he's not lying? In other words, have you seen his membership card? If he's a Master Mason, he will have a 2005 membership dues receipt card issued by his Lodge, signed by his Lodge's Secretary. If he's also a Scottish Rite Mason as claimed, he'll also have a membership card from Scottish Rite, which will show his name and Scottish Rite Degree, the year 2005 dues paid in full, likewise signed by the Scottish Rite Secretary.

Also, if he's really a 32° Scottish Rite Mason, he will have a large Patent of that Degree. It's gold, and features a drawing of two Sphinxes sitting at the Portico of the Temple, along with his name, his Scottish Rite degree, and various mottos written in Latin. Most Scottish Rite Masons have these framed in their homes, and the request to see it would prove or disprove his claim.

Or perhaps you could ask him to show you the infamous seal that he claims he's in possession of.

I also find it interesting that your friend mentioned Aleister Crowley in connection to Masonry. It's true that Crowley was an expert on occult subjects and mysticism, especially the Kabalah, and he wrote many books on these things. However, Crowley was never a regular Scottish Rite Mason; and even though he was an expert on occultism, his knowledge of Freemasonry was extremely limited. For example, in his autobiography titled "The Confessions of Aleister Crowley", he penned his belief that if a regular Mason accidentally sat in Lodge with a clandestine Mason, then the regular Mason was automatically expelled. Further, according to Crowley, all who sit in Lodge with this regular Mason subsequently are likewise expelled. I don't know exactly where Crowley got his information on this, or if he just assumed it, but either way, it's wrong.

Furthermore, all of Crowley's Masonic honors were irregular. He received a 33° of the Cerneau Rite, the 96° of the Oriental Rite of Memphis, and the 90° of the Egyptian Rite of Mitzraim from John Yarker. All of these Rites are irregular, and are not recognized by legitimate Masonic organizations. But even if they were, these Rites were concerned with things like mysticism, Kabalah, alchemy, etc., not "new world orders" or "dangerous degrees."

Everyone here knows what they know and were taught and that's it. There is no one Freemason that has visited every lodge and knows what goes on in each one.

All Lodges, in order to remain a Lodge, must operate in the same fashion. In other words, the workings of the Craft are universal. Each Lodge must obey the Constitution and regulations of the Grand Lodge under which it works, and must have adopted its own By-Laws in conformance with Grand Lodge regulations.

But the difference between Lodges in a particular jurisdiction is like the difference between two schools in the same district, or two churches of the same denomination. In other words, the only real differences between them comes from the individual needs of the Lodge, i.e., one Lodge may have on its agenda a fundraiser for charity, while another may be discussing building renovations. But the degree ceremonies are practically universal, the only difference between a slight variation in wording from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Masonic Light]

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Originally posted by defcon5

I actually had an argument with a friend about this same thing when he was trying to say that there was no higher level or corporate entity to the masons. We passed the Shriners World Headquarters when this came up and I asked him who it was that ran that group in there, He could not answer, because he knew that the personnel in there where actual paid employee’s of something that he claims does not exist. Point being it is not staffed by 32 level shriner volunteers, but actual corporate employees of something that has a corporate structure which they deny exists.

All anyone has to do to find out is click here. It's pretty simple to inform yourself.

I do have to admit that the hardcore freemasons here got fight in them. They will write you a 2000 word essay with all sorts of intellectual candy in the paragraphs.

There are 2 courts in freemasonry people forget. A inner court and an outter court. Not all freemasons are created equal. A 32nd degree may know what the true meaning is of the secrets yet a 32nd degree counterpart may think he knows but does not.


So you do admit freemasonry is older than wicca which is implying it is a religion of sorts even going as far to admit wicca stole some theocracy from freemasonry?

[edit on 17-1-2005 by synch11]

Originally posted by sigung86
It's funny to me that folks will sit here and argue from points of ignorance (not being personally aware of the facts) about evil going on in Mason meetings and their nefarious plans for taking over the world. I also, wonder why (but to their credit) that Masons will gather and try to enlighten the folks making the statements/accusations.

I can only assume that the Masons here choose to deny ignorance, the motto of ATS, and speak the truth about their Craft. Enlightening others seems to be a common theme among many ATS members.

Even though Masonic detractors continue to arrive, those who see the truth--that Masonry is not part of any conspiracy--far outnumber those like
Osirisrisen

So you do admit freemasonry is older than wicca which is implying it is a religion of sorts even going as far to admit wicca stole some theocracy from freemasonry?

Ummm just because something is older than something else does not imply that the two are related....that's quite a stretch there....I'm older than the chair I'm sitting in....does that imply that I'm a chair?!?

Originally posted by synch11

There are 2 courts in freemasonry people forget. A inner court and an outter court.

We don't forget that this claim is made by conspiracy theorists, we're just aware of the fact that it isn't true.

So you do admit freemasonry is older than wicca which is implying it is a religion of sorts even going as far to admit wicca stole some theocracy from freemasonry?

Freemasonry can be traced to at least the 14th century, when the Regius Manuscript was written. Wicca, on the other hand, can be traced only to the 1920's, when it was founded by Gerald Gardner.

Neither Wicca nor Freemasonry promote any sort of "theocracy"; actually, it's the exact opposite. The very reason that the Roman Catholic Church attacked Masonry in the 18th century was because Masonry opposed its theocracy, and demanded the separation of church and state.

What Wicca borrowed indirectly from Masonry was a degree system of initiation. Gardner borrowed this from Crowley, who had borrowed it from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which had in turn borrowed it from Masonry.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Masonic Light]