LGBT activists enraged over beach patrol bathroom email

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

This is -- and probably always was -- about men forcing themselves into the ladies' room.

If it were otherwise, then -- at the very least -- there would be some criteria included that would separate cisgender and autogynephilic men from those who actually make the effort to transition to a woman. But there is no such criteria, so any man is free to use the ladies' room, dressing room, locker room, shelters, etc.

Gender means nothing at this point. As long as anyone can make up their own definition, it has no meaning.

Just wait till those identify as "Otherkin" get involved in this debate!

originally posted by: SprocketUK
The way all this is going, everyone is going to have to parse everything they say and write through a team of lawyers to make sure no one could draw offence from it.

How about saying, "all the men going into the women's room/locker room need to cut it out."? Works for me.

I don't think it's unreasonable for men who identify as men to be told to stay out of female changing rooms or bathrooms. Not one bit.

Nor do I, and nor do the LGBT activists in the article.

The guy that wrote the email seems like a normal human being who communicates in a normal human way.
I'd rather people like that prospered over the "say nothing automata" that are infecting the workplace with their "Human Resources" speak.

I would also rather people communicate in a normal straightforward way - men, stay out of the women's room. Period. Just the facts and none of the hyperbole.

originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Phage

Don't stop there, what does determine ones sex?

If chromosomes are the absolute determining factor in "sex," how do you know that everyone you know is the sex they proclaim themselves to be? Only a small percentage of people ever have karotype testing performed. If you demand "proof" from a select group, all people should be required to submit to the same.

Rather than spend billions of dollars trying to regulate the lives of others, we just need to mind our own business and let them follow their own paths.

I never thought I would remember fondly the days when progressives called themselves the "reality based" community. These days you are all the "subjective truth" crowd which more or less means - truth is what I believe it to be, prove me wrong.

So in honor of that, I think my brain tells me the grass is orange and you can't prove that I don't perceive it that way. And I find it threatening when any of you refer to the grass as green because it's not. It is very self-evidently orange. Don't tell me I'm wrong. That would be hateful.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Boadicea

Strangely you are not all that concerned about the boys. And you know what? What you have just said sounds too much like the argument they made in the 60's.

Which boys? Do you mean the biological-girls-transitioning-to-boys that are now supposed to use the same bathrooms that are so scary and dangerous for the the biological-boys-transitioning-to-girls? Because somehow those same bullies won't pick on them???

I do actually think about them and worry about them; but I also know they can continue using the ladies' room and I assume (hope) they will, for their own safety.

Of course, there's absolutely nothing to keep those same bullies out of the girls' room... absolutely nothing.

So now everyone's using the ladies' room... including the bullies and creepers and perverts... It's a free-for-all!!!

a reply to: kaylaluv
Fair enough, but his intent was clear and the note might not have been scientifically accurate, everyone knew what he meant. There just wasn't any need to blow this up and waste people's time and create bad feeling among people in such a way.

a reply to: seeker1963

Thank you!!! That literally made me (and hubby) laugh out loud

a reply to: Boadicea

BULL CRAP! (Look who's playing stupid now)

If ANYONE is caught staring through the cracks in the stall or over the wall of the stall at you going to the bathroom, you can report them and they can be arrested.

If ANYONE is caught deliberately exposing themselves to you, they will be arrested.

If ANYONE is caught taking pictures or video of you going to the bathroom, they will be arrested.

Please show me an example of ANYONE caught red handed doing these things with law enforcement saying they couldn't do anything because the person identified as trans.

a reply to: Boadicea

Now were conversing...

As I hear it, certain members of the "T" community have been guilty of their own oppression and bullying of the lesbian and gay communities... and I first heard this from members of the gay and lesbian community, which was confirmed by further research on the internet. For example, for some crazy reason, lesbians don't like being told that they're bigots if they won't have sex with "females" with penises... I could go on, but I don't want to derail the thread; if you need links (and I doubt it, I'm quite sure you already know), I'd be happy to supply them.

Well I wouldn't know anything about that and furthermore I myself would condemn any Trans person that would hold that viewpoint. Though I highly suspect that that is something that a cross dresser would do and I'm not a fan of theirs either.

You claim "the T part of that group stood next to you and yours in your fight for equality," but perspective is everything. Some could just as easily claim (and do) that the T part of the group rode their coattails for their own self-promotion...

Now you can dispute my "claim" that many T-folk stood next to those embattled in the fight for equality for gay's all you like but it doesn't make it any less true. Let's look at this next bit from two different perspectives here shall we. You say the Trans community "rode the coat tails" of the fight for and by gays for equality, fair enough.

What would you do if you knew you were part of a demographic that was even fewer in numbers, more misunderstood and more demonized than the gays? How would you feel? Would you not "ride the coat tails" of the most similar, successful and relevant group to yours? Would you not add your numbers to theirs with the hope that they of all people should be pretty accepting and understanding of other minority demographics other than their own?

So you say "riding coat tails" I would say that it was more about a united front by all manner of societally ostracized "freaks" standing together in the face of hatred, violence and oppression. Really I would say that is the very core, the very soul of what America is supposed to be about and for. Acceptance of and freedom for all, yes we did have bit of a rough patch in that regards for a while but that was corrected and progress has been made each day going forward.

I would say this sentiment of disassociation stems from and originates with former or current gay activist that have a chip on their shoulder and hold a grudge against a demographic that they felt wasn't raked along the coals the way they were. The reality is that the T community just hid better and for longer out of fear and necessity for survival.

But I appreciate your tirade to the extent that it does shine a very small light on the big cracks in the LGBT community, and puts the lie to the whole "only Christian bigots" have a problem with the "T" agenda... So I thank you for that. Knowledge is power.

LOLZ, I literally appreciate nothing about your response to me and the smug little over tone you threw in there at the end. Can we stick to facts and truth's...I don't wan't get shushed again, me no likey being shushed.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: kaylaluv
Fair enough, but his intent was clear and the note might not have been scientifically accurate, everyone knew what he meant. There just wasn't any need to blow this up and waste people's time and create bad feeling among people in such a way.

And there wasn't any need for the man to make fun of the plight of trans people. No need at all.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Sorry. I'm not reassured. Even if you can and will be every woman/girl's hero, you cannot be in every bathroom at all times.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you really care about the welfare of women and girls, tell me how you'll keep the creeps and perverts out of the ladies' room.

Oh see but I do care about the safety of women and children. I'm just not afraid of statistically improbable boogeymen or women for that matter. In all of the major cities across the country (18 I believe it is) there have been no rises in rates of sexual assaults against women or children in public bathrooms. Where are the numbers to show support and justice for your fears? They just don't exist except for in your head.

Your probably more likely to get eaten by an Alligator at Disney World, in reality as messed up as it is.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: kaylaluv
Fair enough, but his intent was clear and the note might not have been scientifically accurate, everyone knew what he meant. There just wasn't any need to blow this up and waste people's time and create bad feeling among people in such a way.

And there wasn't any need for the man to make fun of the plight of trans people. No need at all.

See, I don't think he was. Maybe one of his guys tried pulling his leg by saying "But boss, what if I identify as female?" after a chat that might have been "Lads, stay out of the ladies changing rooms, ok?"


I will say though, that I'm not LBTG so haven't ever been subject to all the rubbish they have had to deal with, so maybe I just don't see such things as deeply, which makes me wonder if all this stuff, this bad feeling will only end when everyone is healed (on all sides).

Gonna be a long road, but I really don't like the idea of everything being analysed to death all the time and I don't want people to be made to feel rubbish about themselves. I don't think I'm going to get either of those outcomes.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

BULL CRAP!

If ANYONE is caught staring through the cracks in the stall or over the wall of the stall at you going to the bathroom, you can report them and they can be arrested.

BULL CRAP! Where's the proof? "But Officer, I was just walking by and glanced that way... I wasn't peeping." Or -- "But Officer, I was just looking to see if anyone was in the stall." There is no way to prove anything.

If ANYONE is caught deliberately exposing themselves to you, they will be arrested.

BULL CRAP! Caught by who? "But Officer, I was just adjusting my slip... I can't help it if my female penis was exposed for everyone to see." Or -- "But Officer, I was just fixing my pantyhose... I can't help it if my female penis was flashing the ladies in all its glory."

If ANYONE is caught taking pictures or video of you going to the bathroom, they will be arrested.

BULL CRAP! "But Officer, I was just taking a selfie of my awesome self... I can't help it if someone else got caught in the pic."

Please show me an example of ANYONE caught red handed doing these things with law enforcement saying they couldn't do anything because the person identified as trans.

Weasel words. You know as well as I do that as long as men are allowed in the ladies' room, that this can and will happen, and it's virtually impossible to prove intent -- much less that it even happened.

a reply to: ketsuko

So in honor of that, I think my brain tells me the grass is orange and you can't prove that I don't perceive it that way. And I find it threatening when any of you refer to the grass as green because it's not. It is very self-evidently orange. Don't tell me I'm wrong. That would be hateful.

What about color-blind peoples?

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I would also rather people communicate in a normal straightforward way - men, stay out of the women's room. Period. Just the facts and none of the hyperbole.

Most places I've been, the ladies feel free to use the men's as well. To the point that at the current place, it's "both" and "ladies".

I think we should have co-equal banning! Ladies stay out of the mens' bog! You take too damned long.

instant outrage !!!

do you belong to some kind of news group that scours the internet looking for things to be outraged over ?

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

BULL CRAP!

If ANYONE is caught staring through the cracks in the stall or over the wall of the stall at you going to the bathroom, you can report them and they can be arrested.

BULL CRAP! Where's the proof? "But Officer, I was just walking by and glanced that way... I wasn't peeping." Or -- "But Officer, I was just looking to see if anyone was in the stall." There is no way to prove anything.

If ANYONE is caught deliberately exposing themselves to you, they will be arrested.

BULL CRAP! Caught by who? "But Officer, I was just adjusting my slip... I can't help it if my female penis was exposed for everyone to see." Or -- "But Officer, I was just fixing my pantyhose... I can't help it if my female penis was flashing the ladies in all its glory."

If ANYONE is caught taking pictures or video of you going to the bathroom, they will be arrested.

BULL CRAP! "But Officer, I was just taking a selfie of my awesome self... I can't help it if someone else got caught in the pic."

Please show me an example of ANYONE caught red handed doing these things with law enforcement saying they couldn't do anything because the person identified as trans.

Weasel words. You know as well as I do that as long as men are allowed in the ladies' room, that this can and will happen, and it's virtually impossible to prove intent -- much less that it even happened.

You seem to like to use the term "weasel words"...what if I applied the term "coward words" in your direction every time you made a response? I bet you would cry foul and I would have my post removed. I don't know about you but I would be offended at being called either a weasel or a coward.

As for interactions with police officers you really have no understanding of how all of that works do you? Usually the highest ranking officer on scene has discretionary rights to how the charges if any will be filed. So if the Officer on scene smelled BS in any such instance it would then proceed up the chain of Judicial proceedings all the way to a court date. It will then be put front of a judge and presented by two legal counselors who will make a deal for that person's time and freedom based on a finding of innocence or guilt.

a reply to: Boadicea

So you can't provide a real life example of what you claim. There are 18 states and over 200 cities nationwide with legal protections for trans people. Legal protections that include going to the bathroom appropriate with their gender identity. Legal protections that have been in place for many years.

And yet, you can't provide me one example of someone getting away with being a peeping tom or indecent exposure or sexual molestation due to identifying as trans. Not one.

Someone's being a weasel for sure, but it ain't me.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Just another who just can't fathom the concept of Trans so throws their arms up like "F**** it I don't understand them so F**** them then".

I do understand REAL Trans people, personally know 2.
One changed from male to female, complete transformation (hormones plus full operation)
She has the luck of being asian, and she looks female. Uses female bathroom since the operation, never had a problem with it.
The other one as well male to female, hormones, silicon not sure about below the waistline.
Looks like a male in drag. Uses womens bathroom without any issues.


So the only real transpeople i know have no problems whatsoever.

In my universe crossdressing is fun. But does not change gender. A man who puts on make up, and a miniskirt is still a man.

All in all a non-issue which was not really a problem for trans people.
But because the Non-issue has been made a topic it becomes a problem.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ketsuko

So in honor of that, I think my brain tells me the grass is orange and you can't prove that I don't perceive it that way. And I find it threatening when any of you refer to the grass as green because it's not. It is very self-evidently orange. Don't tell me I'm wrong. That would be hateful.

What about color-blind peoples?

Who cares about them? They don't know what color the grass is, so it shouldn't hurt them to say orange. In fact, since they don't know what color the grass is, they should be angry that they've been forced for all these years to conform and say green.