Whatever they are, they are not normal cloud formations

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Sometimes

Because aluminium makes up over 8% of the Earths crust. The third most common element, in fact.

So it is legit to be breathed in because it is common in soil? I am not saying it is not common on earth, I am saying that there is a fine line between healthy and not healthy. Sodium is a top six element as well. What happens when I pour salt on a persons crops? They all die and the soil is poisoned. There is a differnce between aluminum and noaluminum particles. Do your own research, it is a fact that geo engineering is taking place, irrefutable and the government admits to it, so why are chemtrails so debated? The U.s was one out of 193 countries to not sign the bill outlawing geoengineering in '72, the law is such a legalise runaround that it states that it is legal to geo engineer above your home and there is little you can do about it besides protest. Again this is in the agreement and is law. As long as the chemicals are not direclty harmful to you, it is legal. But If those chemicals cause damage over time after multiple exposures, it is your fault for not asking for those chemicals to not be sprayed. Look it up, it is all there.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

So, decades of study, trails that act exactly like contrails, look exactly like contrails, form in the exact conditions that contrails do, can be predicted to form exactly when contrails will form, could possibly not be contrails?

The problem with the chemtrail theory is that even with the "blobs" there are other sources that make far more sense for everything that is talked about and claimed to be sprayed from aircraft.

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Sometimes

Because aluminium makes up over 8% of the Earths crust. The third most common element, in fact.

So it is legit to be breathed in because it is common in soil? I am not saying it is not common on earth, I am saying that there is a fine line between healthy and not healthy.

And I never disputed that.

Sodium is a top six element as well. What happens when I pour salt on a persons crops? They all die and the soil is poisoned.

What's your point? We breath oxygen. Too much pure oxygen can kill you too.

There is a differnce between aluminum and noaluminum particles.

You so there's a difference between something and nothing? You don't say.

Do your own research, it is a fact that geo engineering is taking place, irrefutable and the government admits to it, so why are chemtrails so debated?

I assume you're on about cloud seeding? Yeah, not chemtrails.

The U.s was one out of 193 countries to not sign the bill outlawing geoengineering in '72, the law is such a legalise runaround that it states that it is legal to geo engineer above your home and there is little you can do about it besides protest. Again this is in the agreement and is law. As long as the chemicals are not direclty harmful to you, it is legal. But If those chemicals cause damage over time after multiple exposures, it is your fault for not asking for those chemicals to not be sprayed. Look it up, it is all there.

What EXACTLY are you on about?

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: INEVERQUIT

Persistent contrails have been known to exist since around WWI. The first one was reported around 1918. They're more common today, but they're still just contrails.

So why was there a meeting in California attended by Doctors, Pilots, and Scientists testifying that chemtrails are real and use soil samples to help state their case? When there are high amounts of Aluminum and Barium found in the soil, the same ingredients used to seed clouds during Operation Popeye in Vietnam. I could go on and on, but some people are stuck in their ways and refuse to be informed.

You are totally misinformed or lying....

Show is that supposed meeting. And please hi lite where they say chemtrails are real.

Or....dont bother, just like all chemtrail believers before you. Which one?

Ah..#. just saw you posted a vid. My apologies . Can't watch it now but I can guarantee no one says what you claimed

Well watch the video and you will find out, these are people testifying in court about what they find. Watch it when you have a chance, it's 15 minutes.

Yeah, what they found in dirt, not clouds. It would be like me taking a sample of the carpet to find out what my sofa was made from.

None of the "chemtrail believers" have EVER given any tangible evidence. I wonder why that could be? Maybe it's because chemtrails are a figment of the imagination.

No it would be like taking a sample of your carpet in order to get you skin sheddings in order to figure out your DNA.

And anyone else's that have fallen into the carpet.

Noone samples clouds,

How sure are you about that?

everything on the top layer of dirt or caught in a simple bucket after a rainstorm is enough to test.

Really? So there's no way that pollution for ANY OTHER source could possibly get in there? Say from cars, factories, the ground and everywhere else?

If there is aluminum in rainwater then it is geoengineering and there is no if ands or but's about it.

So all the aluminium found in rain water can only come from geo engineering? It couldn't possibly have come from anywhere else?

On that note, I have a few things I want tested so i will send them all off to a university to be tested, I will start my own thread recording my findings. 1. I will place a glass sterilized container out in the open and seal that container after it is at least half full with rainwater and cork it. 2. I am sending multiple types of cooking oils to be broken down to see if there is a difference in the molecular structure, I have y reasons I won;t divulge until evidence is found upon that. and there are a few more things I am having tested that have nothing to do with this post so I won;t continue. But if there is aluminu in rainwater, then chemtrails exist and there is no other explaination for it to be there.

Because there's absolutely no way that anything other than chemtrails could possible ever get into a bucket on the ground?

Do you not see any flaw in anything you've said?

Nothing you said makes sense on a scientific ideological standpoint. If I place a bucket out and it collected rainwater and that rainwater contained aluminum, how would that be possible by any other means than cloud seeding? How many metals rise to several miles in the atmosphere and then get crystalised in ice and fall to the earth? Does it rain iron, titanium, etc upon you?

What metals do you know that exist in clouds? As far as I know, there is no metal in cloud formations. But in order for it to rain, according to the weather channel, a particle of dust must be introduced to a frozen ice particle to make rain. Think about that, a solid particle must be introduced to an ice crystal in order to become a droplet of rain, so seeding nano-metallic particles in the air makes sense in order to induce rain.

I go off of observation to collect y evidence first of all. When some planes make contrails that last several hours and then spread into a sheet of haze and then other jet planes fly through the same airspace and leave no contrail at all, it is pretty obvious of the intention, especially when they use the sky like a patch work grid.

I am just not going to agree with you, and that is final. You have no proof that chemtrails don't exist, so there is no reason to argue. They existed at one point in time and that is inarguable, Operation Popeye existed and their mission was to effect weather during the vietnam war, so why couldn't it exist right now? A technology doesn;t just disappear when it has a use.

originally posted by: Sometimes

Nothing you said makes sense on a scientific ideological standpoint. If I place a bucket out and it collected rainwater and that rainwater contained aluminum, how would that be possible by any other means than cloud seeding? How many metals rise to several miles in the atmosphere and then get crystalised in ice and fall to the earth? Does it rain iron, titanium, etc upon you?

You're kidding right? Power plants give off tons of pollutants a day, where do you think all that exhaust goes? When they dig up huge chunks of earth mining on the surface, where do you think all that dust goes? Here's a hint, it doesn't come back down around those power plants and mines.

No actual scientist will ever claim that a sample collected in a water bucket will prove that something is being sprayed from a plane. The only way to say for certain that a sample came from the plane flying overhead is to sample the trail directly as it's formed and at altitude.

a reply to: Sometimes

Nothing you said makes sense on a scientific ideological standpoint. If I place a bucket out and it collected rainwater and that rainwater contained aluminum, how would that be possible by any other means than cloud seeding?

SO the only way aluminum can get into rainwater is cloud seeding...that is what your saying right?

The Earths crust is 8% aluminum correct?

Wind blows part of that crust around correct?

Some people believe that one should not ever find aluminum in rainwater. The question they should be asking is why would you NOT find aluminum in rainwater?

Facts: Aluminum is older than our solar system, it is found in meteorites over 4.5 billion years old. Aluminum is one of the most abundant elements in earth's crust. Aluminum and silica combine to create the most common mineral on earth, Feldspar.

Worldwide, the largest source of airborne mineral dust is the Sahara Desert, which produces up to 200 million tons of mineral dust per year. The second largest source is the Gobi Desert of China, .

These mineral dusts are composed mainly of silicon and aluminum oxides. In 1967 and 1973, scientists measured aluminum in rain and snow and found levels comparable to those found today.

Why would you NOT find aluminum in rain water?

www.thomhartmann.com...

I guess cloud seeding isn't the only way to get aluminum in rain water.

Now to ask one very simple question...

If chemtrails exist why has no one who pushes this hoax has ever gone up and tested on in the air in the 30 years this hoax has been around?

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: INEVERQUIT

Persistent contrails have been known to exist since around WWI. The first one was reported around 1918. They're more common today, but they're still just contrails.

So why was there a meeting in California attended by Doctors, Pilots, and Scientists testifying that chemtrails are real and use soil samples to help state their case? When there are high amounts of Aluminum and Barium found in the soil, the same ingredients used to seed clouds during Operation Popeye in Vietnam. I could go on and on, but some people are stuck in their ways and refuse to be informed.

You are totally misinformed or lying....

Show is that supposed meeting. And please hi lite where they say chemtrails are real.

Or....dont bother, just like all chemtrail believers before you. Which one?

Ah..#. just saw you posted a vid. My apologies . Can't watch it now but I can guarantee no one says what you claimed

Well watch the video and you will find out, these are people testifying in court about what they find. Watch it when you have a chance, it's 15 minutes.

Yeah, what they found in dirt, not clouds. It would be like me taking a sample of the carpet to find out what my sofa was made from.

None of the "chemtrail believers" have EVER given any tangible evidence. I wonder why that could be? Maybe it's because chemtrails are a figment of the imagination.

No it would be like taking a sample of your carpet in order to get you skin sheddings in order to figure out your DNA.

And anyone else's that have fallen into the carpet.

Noone samples clouds,

How sure are you about that?

everything on the top layer of dirt or caught in a simple bucket after a rainstorm is enough to test.

Really? So there's no way that pollution for ANY OTHER source could possibly get in there? Say from cars, factories, the ground and everywhere else?

If there is aluminum in rainwater then it is geoengineering and there is no if ands or but's about it.

So all the aluminium found in rain water can only come from geo engineering? It couldn't possibly have come from anywhere else?

On that note, I have a few things I want tested so i will send them all off to a university to be tested, I will start my own thread recording my findings. 1. I will place a glass sterilized container out in the open and seal that container after it is at least half full with rainwater and cork it. 2. I am sending multiple types of cooking oils to be broken down to see if there is a difference in the molecular structure, I have y reasons I won;t divulge until evidence is found upon that. and there are a few more things I am having tested that have nothing to do with this post so I won;t continue. But if there is aluminu in rainwater, then chemtrails exist and there is no other explaination for it to be there.

Because there's absolutely no way that anything other than chemtrails could possible ever get into a bucket on the ground?

Do you not see any flaw in anything you've said?

Nothing you said makes sense on a scientific ideological standpoint. If I place a bucket out and it collected rainwater and that rainwater contained aluminum, how would that be possible by any other means than cloud seeding?

Dust and pollution.

How many metals rise to several miles in the atmosphere and then get crystalised in ice and fall to the earth? Does it rain iron, titanium, etc upon you?

Rain isn't the only thing in the air.

What metals do you know that exist in clouds? As far as I know, there is no metal in cloud formations. But in order for it to rain, according to the weather channel, a particle of dust must be introduced to a frozen ice particle to make rain. Think about that, a solid particle must be introduced to an ice crystal in order to become a droplet of rain, so seeding nano-metallic particles in the air makes sense in order to induce rain.

Got any evidence that this has ever happened outside of seeding clouds?

I go off of observation to collect y evidence first of all. When some planes make contrails that last several hours and then spread into a sheet of haze and then other jet planes fly through the same airspace and leave no contrail at all, it is pretty obvious of the intention, especially when they use the sky like a patch work grid.

I'm guessing planes only ever fly in 1 single direction? Just like clouds only ever come from one place and only ever have 1 shape?

I am just not going to agree with you, and that is final. You have no proof that chemtrails don't exist, so there is no reason to argue.

I can't prove something doesn't exist. It's up to the chemtrail pushers to prove they do. After 20+ years, they still haven't proven they exist.

They existed at one point in time and that is inarguable, Operation Popeye existed and their mission was to effect weather during the vietnam war, so why couldn't it exist right now? A technology doesn;t just disappear when it has a use.

Except, operation Popeye wasn't at cruise altitude of commercial planes.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The only way to say for certain that a sample came from the plane flying overhead is to sample the trail directly as it's formed and at altitude.

And we know the reason that hasn't been done in the whole time this hoax has been around...the hoax will end.

a reply to: Sometimes

Aluminum is the most abundant metal and the third most abundant element in the earth’s crust, comprising about 8.8% by weight (88 g/kg). It is never found free in nature and is found in most rocks, particularly igneous rocks as aluminosilicate minerals (Lide 2005; Staley and Haupin 1992). Aluminum is also present in air, water, and many foods.Aluminum enters environmental media naturally through the weathering of rocks and minerals. Anthropogenic releases are in the form of air emissions, waste water effluents, and solid waste primarily associated with industrial processes, such as aluminum production. Because of its prominence as a major constituent of the earth's crust, natural weathering processes far exceed the contribution of releases to air, water, and land associated with human activities(Lantzy and MacKenzie 1979).

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

Google is your friend.

a reply to: Sometimes

So why was there a meeting in California attended by Doctors, Pilots, and Scientists testifying that chemtrails are real and use soil samples to help state their case?

Because Dane Wigington pushed for this...but if your going to prove something why use a local town council meeting instead of going to the national level to do this?

Something that should be considered when thinking this is something other than a joke.

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: INEVERQUIT

Persistent contrails have been known to exist since around WWI. The first one was reported around 1918. They're more common today, but they're still just contrails.

So why was there a meeting in California attended by Doctors, Pilots, and Scientists testifying that chemtrails are real and use soil samples to help state their case? When there are high amounts of Aluminum and Barium found in the soil, the same ingredients used to seed clouds during Operation Popeye in Vietnam. I could go on and on, but some people are stuck in their ways and refuse to be informed.

I have never heard that those chemicals were used in Operation Popeye. I always thought it was a cloud seeding operation and they used Silver Iodide, or dry ice, as was the practice at the time. Can you show where you got that information from?

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: network dude
If you take a look at this link you will see that contrails have indeed been around for a very long time. With the increase in air travel, you will continue to see more and more of these in the sky. It's unavoidable. You can spend just a little time learning about clouds (cirrus) and what it takes for them to exist, then check out contrails and you will quickly see that they are the same thing, just one is made by man, and the other, nature.

The only contrails that last are from military jets. I have never seen a commercial airline freighter leave contrails that last more than a few seconds.

If you care to find the facts and the truth, I would suggest you look into that claim a bit more. Using a flight tacking app, you can easily pinpoint the planes leaving trails and verify if any are commercial. In this case, even seeing 1 commercial plane leaving a trail would kind of negate your theory. So it wouldn't take long at all.

they put odd mixes in the fuel....that shows up in msds paperwork, but is hidden now.....the cabin air is contaminated with it too....I won't fly anymore coz the bleed air harvested directly off the turbine going to the cabin or de-ice is sometimes too much for the crews....phosphors sometimes...true story

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: INEVERQUIT

Persistent contrails have been known to exist since around WWI. The first one was reported around 1918. They're more common today, but they're still just contrails.

So why was there a meeting in California attended by Doctors, Pilots, and Scientists testifying that chemtrails are real and use soil samples to help state their case? When there are high amounts of Aluminum and Barium found in the soil, the same ingredients used to seed clouds during Operation Popeye in Vietnam. I could go on and on, but some people are stuck in their ways and refuse to be informed.

a reply to: GBP/JPY

The cabin bleed air is an oil mix when there's a leak in the system. It's not chemicals added to the fuel.

Nothing you said makes sense on a scientific ideological standpoint.

Scientific ideological standpoint? That makes no sense whatsoever. Science is not an ideology, but a method which one can apply to gain knowledge.

en.wikipedia.org...

If I place a bucket out and it collected rainwater and that rainwater contained aluminum, how would that be possible by any other means than cloud seeding? How many metals rise to several miles in the atmosphere and then get crystalised in ice and fall to the earth? Does it rain iron, titanium, etc upon you?

The earths crust consists for about 8% on average of aluminum. Terrestrial rain compositions vary siginificantly from place to place because the regional geology can greatly affect the types of particulates that get added to the atmosphere.

en.wikipedia.org...(geology)

What metals do you know that exist in clouds? As far as I know, there is no metal in cloud formations.

Well that's the problem right there: 'As far as you know'.

How did you come to that conclusion? Just guessing, or did you actually look up some science to base your opinion on?

But in order for it to rain, according to the weather channel, a particle of dust must be introduced to a frozen ice particle to make rain. Think about that, a solid particle must be introduced to an ice crystal in order to become a droplet of rain, so seeding nano-metallic particles in the air makes sense in order to induce rain.

Well it's been raining for as long as memories go back, long long before the first airplane flew. These particulates have been present in the air forever. There's no need to artificially introduce them to make it rain: they're already there.

Anyway you sem to be referring to weather modification here. which has nothing to do with the trails which seemed to have triggered your chemtrail stance.

Have a look here to find out what WM is, how it works etc

www.weathermodification.com...

I go off of observation to collect y evidence first of all. When some planes make contrails that last several hours and then spread into a sheet of haze and then other jet planes fly through the same airspace and leave no contrail at all, it is pretty obvious of the intention, especially when they use the sky like a patch work grid.

Planes can seem to go through the same airspace (and from your pojnt of view from the ground they do seem to do that), but in a vertical sense they may be in entirely different airspaces with completely different circumstances. In other words: one plane can be higher than the other and be in an airspace that allows for contrail persistence, while a bit lower the conditions don't allow this.

Contrails are just cirrus clouds, and like any other cirrus cloud they can dissipate, as well as expand into sheets. They have the same makeup (ice particles) and behave in the exact same way. Hence the name 'cirrus aviaticus'.

I am just not going to agree with you, and that is final.

Even if he's right?

That's incredibly stupid. But that's kindof the mindset one needs to be a chemtrail believer.

You have no proof that chemtrails don't exist, so there is no reason to argue.

Well the problem is that those who claim chetrails exist never turn up with convincing evidence. They point at known phenomenae, and then go on to claim that it's evidence of something else entirely. It's like pointing at the waves i n the ocean and claim it's evidence that aliens from Zorg are visiting the earth, because their spaceships kick up the water and cause waves.

You're pointing at clouds, and claim it's evidence of something other than the process which since forever has been known to cause clouds is to blame.

So you're going to have to provide evidence that that's indeed the case. Until that day, we're going to stick to what we already know.

They existed at one point in time and that is inarguable, Operation Popeye existed and their mission was to effect weather during the vietnam war, so why couldn't it exist right now? A technology doesn;t just disappear when it has a use.

Ah well chemicals have been sprayed from planes before. It's just that such an operation looks nothing like what you claim it looks like. Have a look at this example of an aircraft spraying Zinc Cadmium Sulphide in an experiment to simulate how agents spread over land. It turned out that spraying agents from cars and ships was more efficient



Note the following:

1: the chemicals are being sprayed from low altitude
2: the trail dissipates after a few seconds

Which is exactly the opposite of what chemtrail believers claim the characteristics of a chemtrail should be. It looks NOTHING like a contrail, doesn't persist nor does it form a sheet.

Operation popeye also involved spraying from LOW altitude and didn't cause persistent high altitude trails, and therefore can't be used to substantiate your chemtrail claims. It's simply not the same thing.

These are all known characteristics of CLOUDS, as the only chemical known to be present in the air which can account for the characteristics of clouds is H2O, or WATER. You need to have LOTS of it already present in the air to account for the way clouds behave, or indeed entire weather systems.

originally posted by: Sometimes

No it would be like taking a sample of your carpet in order to get you skin sheddings in order to figure out your DNA. Noone samples clouds, everything on the top layer of dirt or caught in a simple bucket after a rainstorm is enough to test. If there is aluminum in rainwater then it is geoengineering and there is no if ands or but's about it.

Yeah, but the carpet will also contain pollen from outside, dirt tracked in from the garden, and pet hair.

A dirt sample might give you trace amounts of the stuff in contrails, but it will also contain industrial pollution (air and runoff) from factories, automobile air pollution, and other kinds of runoff pollution(from farm and lawn fertilizers, etc).

There's a lot of stuff in the air and in rainwater runoff that does not come from contrails -- and all of that stuff will be present in that dirt sample. Plus it will contain the minerals that naturally occur in the dirt, even without pollution.

I mean, how did they make the logical leap from "aluminum is in dirt samples" to "therefore that aluminum must have come from chemtrails"?

What if those are contrails and chemtrails at same time.

It is highly possible they are sometimes testing some crap on us, like they did before.

a reply to: saadad

It is highly possible they are sometimes testing some crap on us, like they did before.

And it's highly possible they aren't...and it's highly possible that until one can prove they exist then they don't exist.

It's highly possible I am wrong.

It's highly possible I am not.

Highly possible is far from they are...and that is what chemtrail believers forget.

as the shashta county " hearing " has been cited here AGAIN - just skip to 08:05 and listen to the alledged " expert "

my transcript :

how did monsanto know to create aluminum resistant plants , i dont think i have heard anyone ask that question

the second part of the statement is pure idiocy

but to answer the first - aluminum toxicity [ to plants ] is established feild of study

here is an peer review jounrnal article from 1928 - published by the american society of plant bilolgists , in thier journal " plant physiology "

scource

discussing " aluminum toxicity "

the reason for monsanto aluminum resistant plants is fooking obvious :

to enable crops to be grown [ with viable yeilds ] in aluminum rich soils

the fact that the " expert " doesnt know this - shows him to be an idiot who is there under false preteces

would anyone like me to discect the " testimony " of any of the other idiots ?

edited to add : forgot to paste source link

a reply to: ignorant_ape

the pilot. you can't discredit him. he has a had AND a pilot shirt. So there is that.

That whole video is laughable. It could well be a costume party for chemtrail believers who went to the Shasta County Board to do this video. But as with the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop, the world may never know.