Doesn't the Vatican prove the Pope and catholics are not true Christians?

a reply to: crazyewok

There is a good book, albeit older, which adresses many of these issues.

All links but this one lead to a book sale site...the pdf. is linked.

Fifty Years in the Church of Rome BY CHARLES CHINIQUY

MG

a reply to: MrSpad

Yup... Disneyland and "the church" are pretty much the same...they both make money and use little kids for fun times...good call.

a reply to: MrSpad

Yup... Disneyland and "the church" are pretty much the same...they both make money and use little kids for fun times...good call.

a reply to: ketsuko

I'm supposing that the "massive good" they do makes up for the rapes of children that the "good" priests/fathers spread so lovingly all over the world?

Yes, I know it happens in lots of other churches, but catholic's NEVER hold these trusted men accountable since their flagrant misdeeds are BOUGHT OFF with large sums of their glaring wealth. Disgusting sins swept away under piles of money gladly taken from the masses of poor people who are encouraged to keep pumping out as many hungry mouths that can't be fed properly as they can...for what? Oh... future contributors to finance uppkeep on ridiculous homes and furnishings that feed...what? EGOS! Wardrobes so outdated as to be ludicrous. Jewelry for the masses to IDOLIZE, bow to and kiss. Limousines for men too good for a common car, cooks, housekeepers, and the list never ends. WHO needs all these NONESSENTIAL trappings? Certainly not the poor. Certainly not God. Most certainly NOT Jesus. This "church" stands for wealth gained through blackmailing people into thinking they're going to HELL..if they don't give till it hurts. Just like its close cousin islam, better left in the dark, dank, disgusting past.

Have You Ever Noticed... A Country Is Not A Scam. It Is Theology. In Its Truest Form. Buying & Selling. Not Compromise. If You Love God... Learn His Art. Buying & Selling.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I will NEVER understand their "need" and/or "desire" to be called father. The ONLY father for ANY of us earthly dwellers is the HUMAN sperm donor, right HERE on earth who who impregnated our mothers. THEIR union is the ONLY one we owe that sometimes dubious honor to.

All this ring kissing crap, slinging nonsense all over the place, and use of ridiculous, made up words MOST OF ALL their blatant IDOLATRY! It's so plainly written (in the Bible) as stated by jesus that it is an irrevocabile SIN to pray to or worship idols, "saints" AND, of all things...Jesus's mother?! How much plainer can it be when in Revelations it clearly STATES the ONLY way to God, to have his ear, is THROUGH Jesus, not AROUND him. Can ANYONE tell me how they actually THINK they're getting away with something? Something that was COMMANDED by God himself through his ONLY begotten son, and yet TOTALLY IGNORED by those supposed saintly characters who raised the walls this gaudy idealogy?! This is the single most, truest, FACT that says to me, "FALSEHOODS, money grubbers, and, like muslims/islamists, "oh look, pretty little alter boys" to enjoy the company of." This "church". needs the next BIGGEST overhauling of spirituality and idealogy the world needs to see...right AFTER islam!

Why can't You and a genuine god seeking Catholic go into a room together, Both pray to god for to tell you what the right denomination is? Better yet, Why can't hundreds of christians from each denomination all do that. No arguments, Just silent prayer and harmonious conclusion at the end.


b-b-b-b-b-ut muh god doesn't like giving people clear straight forward answers, that's not in his PERFECT nature.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: crazyewok

Don't get me wrong, I am not all in with Catholicism or the Vatican here, but I am pointing out that there some legitimate reasons for them to have a lot of wealth.

Part of the Church's problem with this came from its past where it went through a long period of being the institution of choice for the nobility of Europe to warehouse their extra sons and daughters to keep them from making trouble with the inheritance. Such people were not there with actual vocation and so politics and secular ambitions became common in the church. At the same time, it gave the church access to money, land, and power through those same ties.

That's always a bad combination.

I agree there is a good reason for a Christian organisation to have wealth.

Its how its used that is the question.

Not saying all catholics are individuals are bad. But the organisation of the Vatican itself seems at odds with christian values.

I think most of Christianity is at odds with Jesuses morals so the whole argument over which Christians are better Christians seems pretty ridiculous.

Unfortunately Christianity is a lie because the Nicene Council decided to destroy the secret teachings of Christ. They cherry picked from Jesus's public teachings to create a tool of oppression, so the Roman Empire could spread through the Catholic Church to control the world.

Basically, anyone who rejects Mary Magdalene doesn't know what Jesus taught. The patriarchy is the greatest evil, and it's insane that the Catholic Church is patriarchal. Mary Magdalene was a priestess and the consort of Christ.

originally posted by: PranksterBob
Unfortunately Christianity is a lie because the Nicene Council decided to destroy the secret teachings of Christ. They cherry picked from Jesus's public teachings to create a tool of oppression, so the Roman Empire could spread through the Catholic Church to control the world.

Basically, anyone who rejects Mary Magdalene doesn't know what Jesus taught. The patriarchy is the greatest evil, and it's insane that the Catholic Church is patriarchal. Mary Magdalene was a priestess and the consort of Christ.

Except that the First Council at Nicea had nothing to do with canonization of liturgy. The main focus of Nicea 1 was to settle the controversy of Arianism. The main outcome of Nicea 1 was that the Council of Bishops in attendance settled the matter of Jesus divinity and established that he was in fact a divine being as the son of God himself. It wasn't until Laodicea, nearly 40 years later, that discussions began on which books and Gospels would become canonical. The only liturgical aspect dealt with at The First Council of Nicea was the establishment of the Nicene Creed. The main focus though was to settle the debate on Arianism vs. the Divinity of Christ.

It's a little pedantic sure, but if you want to dispute aspects of the early church and it's inner workings, is it not better to actually have your facts correct? If the basis of your position is on such shaky ground, perhaps another look at your further conclusions is in order.

a reply to: crazyewok

For once I agree with everything you just said and it sums up why I have no time for the Catholic Church, of all religious institutions, on top of everything you've said it has twisted and corrupted, not just religion but the very world around us. Medicine and science would be much farther on if it wasn't for the Catholic Church.

Besides, it says in the Bible you don't have to go to chuech and you can practice your faith wherever you want. Churches, according the the Bible, are not needed...

originally posted by: 2012newstart
The issue is not only the money. We are before groundbreaking events predicted in Fatima and Malachi. Vatican knows what is coming. We don't know, although speculations abound. When the world finally knows, the events will be upon us.
Will they be just shaking of faith, or cataclysmic planetary, or both? Frankly, I want they happen sooner. The current dead end status quo won't increase faith, won't make more people to be saved. Just the opposite. Let God acts in this world, sooner, even tomorrow! It is our only hope we get out of the mess that started far not only in 20th century with one or few leaders. I am not going to do any longer review, you may check my other threads. God bless!

He's not coming, if there is a God (which I seriously doubt) he gave up on us a long time ago. I mean do you really think any sentient being would stand back and allow those representing him on earth abuse innocent children, hoard wealth when the world has startling people and live in opulence while others starve? If I were Christian I would be ashamed to call myself so...

a reply to: peter vlar

I should speak more generally but the point is that the gospels were censored to support the beliefs established at the Nicene Council. The big thing is that they totally censored Mary Magdalene. Remember, Magdalene was the first person Christ revealed himself to after the resurrection. She was told to go to the apostles and spread the Truth. So here we have to go to the gnostic gospels to find out what happened next. The Gospel of Mary Magdalene is fragmentary because the pages where she describes prophecy and the spiritual realm were destroyed. After Mary Magdalene finishes telling the apostles the secret teachings of Christ that were revealed to her, the patriarchal apostles, led by Peter, revolted. But Levi defended Magdalene. You've got to understand that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were trained in the Essene Way. They wanted to spread the Essene Way to the Pharisees and Saduccees, but with the corruption of the Romans reinforcing the materialistic, patriarchal system, the patriarchal apostles revolted and denied the secret teachings of Christ.

So now to understand what Jesus taught we have to ignore Christianity and focus on Valentinianism and Manichaeasm. The problem of course is that these religions were suppressed a long time ago, but by the 7th century Manichaeasm was the widest spread religion in the world.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

And yes those religions sound very strange, nothing at all like Christianity. But I think the gnostic gospel "The Sophia of Jesus Christ" supports these religions .

gnosis.org...

But seriously, the Roman Empire decided they wanted to have more control over people, and they thought the religion professed by Peter and Paul could be their ticket to power over people's souls. So the Romans instilled their hierarchical system of control that would get them control over a large area, which we know was purely patriarchal. What the Roman Catholic Church did to Mary Magdalene can't be forgiven for they covered up the true nature of God--a masculine, wrathful side, and a feminine, compassionate side.

Just check out VALIS by Phillip K Dick and then the Divine Invasion. Those books introduced me to the True Religion of Christ.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: CB328

those individuals and corporations dont claim to be gods direct representatives

Oh really? Then why do so many claim that they can't provide insurance that could cover birth control or abortion, or won't give out plan b, or do business with gay people because of their religious "values"? How can you claim religious examptions if you're not religious?

You're tarring a lot of individuals and corporations with the same brush, they're not all the same. Besides corporations and individuals, as crazyewok had pointed out, haven't claimed to be Gods representatives on Earth so they don't need to be seen to be Christian. If Un-christian activities are carried out by organisations or individuals claiming to be Christian they should be called out.

Personally I am not a Christian but I have sacrificed a lot of time, effort and financial gain to do charity work. I am kind to my fellow man (and animals), i respect the planet we live on and where we live (never litter) and consider myself a fairly humble man.

originally posted by: Szarah
a reply to: ketsuko

He was probably the most important apostle in terms of converting Rome's goyim, which is why he gets the name Peter. .

Sorry, why did this fella from the East have such an English name? I don't get the significance of converting Rome's goyim leading to the name Peter?

originally posted by: damwel
Lol the Pope and the Catholics ARE the true Christians. The Protestants are splitters who split off from the true Church when things didn't go their way. I'll take my ball and go home kind of thing.
Amazing

Great, someone who speaks like he knows what he's talking about. Surely he can explain why the Catholic Church amass wealth, cover up child abuse and more?

a reply to: PranksterBob

Sorry, sometimes I can't help having a pedantic smart ass streak in me. Aside for confusing Nicea 1 for Laodicea, you're not wrong at all as far as the point you were driving at. The Roman absorption of aspects of nascent Christianity that they felt was easily colored to further their sphere of influence is readily apparent. Just look at their habit of maintaining pagan holidays and festivals and rebranding them as Christian holidays. The former festival of Sol Invictus and Saturnalia magically became the birthday of Christ because it was easier to convert the majority of an empire en masse when they weren't really changing holidays and festivals other than the names. It was a walk in the park to maintain their misogynistic and patriarchal power structure that way. You're not going to get any argument from me at all when it comes down to the minutiae of how they went about it's for PKD and VALIS... I play in a band called Black Iron Prison. Need Insay more?

a reply to: crazyewok

Are you kidding? Jesus hold more real state in the US and the world than any other religions combine, the Vatican is just doing the banking and managing for him after all the son of God can not trust regular banks.

Right, yes I'm been sarcastic.

Sadly in the name of religion all kind of things can be done as long as it has Jesus approval.

The Christians that invented the religion would probably say, there are few if any "True Christians" left today. They have changed from being Christian into being irrational, delusional, smug apologetics that can't have a conversation about reality without introducing a metaphor from a bible the early christian would have barely recognized.