The Wisdom of Jesus Christ

a reply to: coomba98

I also agree that the demiurge, called Jehovah by his captives, is not The Creator although he believes that he is.

If you are under the impression that these texts are one consistent theology you are incorrect. Not all of the mythology agrees as they probably were designed to meditate on rather than just read. In the fashion of the Zohar and not meant to be considered real events


With the key text being the Gospel of Thomas.


Your attitude leads me to believe these texts to be beyond your grasp. I would suggest just going with Jehovah because then you can get a pastor to explain to you Christianity. It is a more simple faith.

They are meant to compliment and clarify the true meaning of the mission of Christ by esoteric interpretations to experience a feeling of closeness to the true God through Sophia and Christ. Gnosis.

a reply to: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser

Congrates to the none abusive posts. No sarcasm.

Which Gnostic sect did not believe Samael is not the Creator God of the material universe? Curious.

Coomba98... sorry

Summers Eve

a reply to: coomba98

Good luck figuring it that out.

As far as I know, except for the early Cerinthus, the demiurge aka Saklas aka Samael aka Yaldabaoth did not create anything and only believes that he did.

The true creators are the Aeons or Sophia.

a reply to: Szarah

The Demiurge was the creator of the physical world in the gnostic world view... which is the god of the OT

Also why this world is so messed up...

a reply to: Akragon

Even the earth was made for him by Sophia or the Aeons so she could hide him.

Him and his Archon's tried to make humans out of dirt, but failed.

So the Aeons or Sophia, depending on the text, gave the inanimate "man" life.

The demiurge is only able to copy what already exists to a limited extent. His powers are more destructive in nature.

I can see where you would think that, but it was actually not him. He just doesn't have any creative powers. The material is actually not considered evil only under his dominion do people need salvation.

One maybe two of the early schools might have believed that, but no reliable information exists other than Nag Hammadi exists but, no, the demiurge creates nothing. He made his archon's buy copying himself and was unable to create man, had to use dirt, and failed at it. The upper aeons sent down their spirit and gave life to the man and woman and led them to the tree of gnosis and here we are.

The serpent was sent by them to do just that, which even nicely explainins the arrival of the serpent from seemingly nowhere.

a reply to: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser

Padawan, you dont know what you are talking about.

This is evidenced by not providing evidence. Nothing new here hay. Make a statement which contradict scripture with out providing evidence.

Funny that the only people who respond to you with 100% agreement who also stars and flag you just are your other accounts.

Not providing proof = i win.
Providing proof to continue the discussion = i win.

..

Not providing proof = you lose.
Providing proof to continue the discussion = we all win.

Super simple stuff Padawan Googlemiser.

Coomba98. .. sorry

Summers Eve

a reply to: coomba98

My name is not Padawan, I actually do know what I am talking about and if you would like to go read the books you could find out.

You might just have the same misconceptions that everyone else does but read the creation myths supplementing Genesis and you will find out.

It is very easy to say someone doesn't know what they are talking about when you yourself don't know.

Proving it is a different thing.

a reply to: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser

I have read them and even own the books hard copy.

Anyone can google Demiurge Creator God and see the results ohh Googlemiser.

www.google.com.au... obile&ie=UTF-8

Every single Gnostic sect believes his The Creator God of the universe.

Like i said prove me wrong.

At this point... i win you lose.

Coomba98... sorry

Summers Eve

a reply to: coomba98

Apocryphon of John:

When Sophia saw what her desire produced, it changed into the figure of a snake with the face of a lion. Its eyes were like flashing bolts of lightening. She cast it away from her, outside that realm so that none of the immortals would see it. She had produced it ignorantly.

She surrounded it with a bright cloud and put a throne in the middle of the cloud so that no on would see it except the holy Spirit who is called the Mother of the living.


I'd better explain this for you. That "throne" is called the earth and that ugly lion faced snake is Yaldabaoth. If you want to run your mouth be my guest, I have proven enough.

Maybe you should read the books and not rely on Google. No Gnostic believed that the demiurge is the creator, as far as the scriptures go.

They believed he wasn't a god at all, just a lower ruler or Archon created by mistake and hidden by this world that Sophia made so no one could see him.

You don't know anything and you are talking like that!!! Heh heh heh...Google!!! Lol lol!!!

a reply to: coomba98

The demiurge is the evil one and they would never call him their god. That is like the first thing everyone learns about Gnosticism. This is the god of the Jews, this demiurge.

The second is about Sophia and Christ and the third about the unknowable True God who is more than a God who no man can comprehend.

Heh.

a reply to: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser

Incorrect Padawan Googlemiser. Never said the Demiurge created himself. And if you keep reading you will find that bright cloud Sophia hid him in became the 1st of 7 heavens. Area wise that is.

Keep reading! !

Coomba98... sorry

Summers Eve

a reply to: coomba98

Like I said, Sophia created the earth not the true God, like you said.

As I also said the demiurge can copy, not create, he would be able to make more, inferior planets. I have read it, how do you think I knew where to look. Not Google like you.

Don't play games, I didn't say you said Yaldabaoth created himself.

You said "every Gnostic believes his God created the world."

Which is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

The God of Gnosticism is unknowable, didn't create the world as he could never create something that imperfect, and the texts say Sophia did.

Nice try, you ain't pulling any stunts here.

a reply to: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser

So you read it all and found i was right so reply like your right and im wrong.

Another thing Sohpia is not the holy spirit like you say. As you posted...

originally posted by: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser
a reply to: coomba98

She surrounded it with a bright cloud and put a throne in the middle of the cloud so that no on would see it except the holy Spirit who is called the Mother of the living.

She (Sophia) and holy spirit being two different entities not the same.

So theres some closure for you Padawan.

Coomba98.. sorry

Summers Eve
(On mobile)

a reply to: coomba98

I am afraid you weren't right about a thing, being that what you said has been continuously incorrect.

Your going to have to find a friend. I can't deal with your ignorance.

originally posted by: Padawan Szarah Googlemiser
a reply to: coomba98

I am afraid you weren't right about a thing, being that what you said has been continuously incorrect.

Your going to have to find a friend. I can't deal with your ignorance.

So i win! Knew it was going to end up like this.

About the creating part. If i play knockn on heavens on my guitar following the musical blueprint, am i still not 'creating' music?

This principle applies to alot of things such as construction, letter writing, art. Etc etc.

Sophia gave the blueprint without the Demiurge knowing thinking he came up with it.

Coomba98... sorry

Summers Eve

a reply to: Szarah

One of the aeonial beings who bears the name Sophia (“Wisdom”) is of great importance to the Gnostic world view. In the course of her journeyings, Sophia came to emanate from her own being a flawed consciousness, a being who became the creator of the material and psychic cosmos, all of which he created in the image of his own flaw. This being, unaware of his origins, imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God. Since he took the already existing divine essence and fashioned it into various forms, he is also called the Demiurgos or “half-maker” There is an authentic half, a true deific component within creation, but it is not recognized by the half-maker and by his cosmic minions, the Archons or “rulers”.

gnosis.org...

a reply to: Akragon

I trust the book itself, which I posted a sample of from A of John that says it was Sophia. A of John is one of the main texts.

I can give more samples from other books.

Gnosis. org is a great site to read books, but they also are a church. They have their own beliefs.


That is just a quote from the website, an inaccurate one at that.

a reply to: Szarah

Inaccurate?

There are three seperate scholars that have their own translations of "secret John" on that site...

You're telling me they're all wrong?

According to gnostic beliefs the OT god was the creator of the physical realm... it was flawed from the beginning...

Said god thought he was the creator of all, but in his ignorance he did not realise that he was also a creation of another... Sophia, which was her mistake and she repented for it

i've been reading these texts for 16 some odd years brother...

You're telling me i've been reading inaccurate texts?

a reply to: Akragon

I posted a quote from Apocryphon of John, the book you mention, that says quite clearly that this world (the "throne") for Yaldabaoth.

So I can't see why you would think what you are. Maybe you have always just thought that, I don't know.

a reply to: Szarah

Simply because as i've stated, i've been reading these books for a long time... The Apocryphon of John is one of my favorite books...

Yaldabaoth created the physical world we know...

You misunderstand the text... said throne "in a cloud" was created for him to hide him, and give him the belief that he was "god"... and in that ignorance he thought he was the only one... and thus proclaimed to his "archons" I am a Jealous god... Which tipped his followers off that there were others...

No physical realm existed before this event... read on in the text, and man is created... and so on and so forth...

Trust me brother...