EPA Just Declared War On Millions of Car Owners

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Funny that the popular mechanics article like mentions that, well kinda, and then also goes into how this isn't necessarily an issue of the amount of ethanol in the gas but how that gas is dispensed,stored and burned. It does sound like taking the ethanol out of the equation would solve alot but hardly the crux of the issue here.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Hardly a war on cars, if anything it is trying to make sure we use all of the corn that we subsidize.

If anything, I'd say the connection between Big Agri and Congress is the suspect issue.
But connecting those dots seems to make brains hurt.

This is definitely true. What's more - the corn sold as food for humans in the grocery stores is generally non-GMO, non-Roundup Ready corn (which surprised me when I found out.) The Monsanto corn is what's used to make ethanol. So it's not just Big Agri - it's the venom in the tooth of the snake which is Big Agri.

a reply to: harvestdog

Take out all buna N rubber that comes in contact with fuel and use nylon or Teflon (or some other plastic that will not be eaten away by alcohol) and change your fuel line to stainless steel. I ran aviation fuel, methyl hydrate, acetone and nitropropane in my 71 dodge challenger and had no issues. Also had NOx in a SS octopus running into the highrise with two 850's. I changed all the fluid carrying lines in the vehicle to 316 stainless steel and mixed Teflon powder in with the oil. Extreme, yes, but it was a 440 bored out out to 505 and ran the quarter at 8.9@168. 1350hp, that's what life is all about lol.

The fuel component changes are not pricey and you can buy Teflon impregnated oil off the shelf. Make the change now as it will allow you to burn anything when SHTF.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: xuenchen

Can you show the milage connection? How big of difference will it be?

I found this page.

www.fueleconomy.gov...


"Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline. So, vehicles will typically go 3% to 4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 and 4% to 5% fewer on E15 than on 100% gasoline."

a reply to: Sremmos80

This affects many more engines than ones equipped with carbs. It can gum up EFI also. It can effect small engines ans 2-stroke. Whatever the reason, many vehicles are on the road that will become inoperable if they put to much in.

Popular Mechanics

Alcohol will also scour varnish and deposits out of the fuel system that have remained in place for years, which will eventually wind up in the filter or main jet, choking off the engine's fuel supply. Worse yet, the alcohol itself ­oxidizes in the tank and produces a tenacious brown glop that's far more damaging to fuel systems than the ­varnish we're used to seeing in pure petroleum fuels. In warmer weather, you can see varnish starting to form within a month of dispensing fresh fuel into a vehicle tank or storage can.

I can't use ethanol in my 71 Torino, and my 2011 Ural (Russian made) says specifically in the owners manual not to use ethanol mixed fuel.

Writing the EPA does no good at all, they only respond with a pre-made nonsensical response that has nothing to do with the issue you inquired about.

They do nothing beneficial for the country.

originally posted by: Bobaganoosh
I can't use ethanol in my 71 Torino, and my 2011 Ural (Russian made) says specifically in the owners manual not to use ethanol mixed fuel.

Writing the EPA does no good at all, they only respond with a pre-made nonsensical response that has nothing to do with the issue you inquired about.

They do nothing beneficial for the country.

Is that the EPA's fault, or your fault for making a poor purchasing decision?

I think this just comes down to the numbers. Peak oil isn't heard about much anymore but it is still an issue and they are doing anything they can to stretch out what we have. The more desperate they become the more bizarre the actions will seem to us. From their perspective it behooves them to keep the people working and for that to happen we need cost effective fuel for our cars. Part of what justifies our unholy alliance with the Saudis was cheap fuel over the years. Watch the PBS special "House of Saud".

Remember when gas was heading to $5 a gallon? The economy tanked it a bad way. Most people live paycheck to paycheck with no margin for error. When your gas bill to get back and forth to work doubles, time to buy off-brand cereal and stop eating out. Everything gets more expensive.

A couple older vehicles I had lost seals and had fuel pump problems that I am sure were related to the levels of ethanol currently in the fuel. Older vehicles just weren't made for this. When faced with a no win scenario ever increasing dramatic solutions seem more reasonable and you try to figure out how to screw the smallest amount of people. From the perspective at the top the truly poor don't matter.

a reply to: Bobaganoosh

The EPA wasn't the one that decided our nation should produce corn to the level we do. We produce so much of it we have to find uses for it all to keep up with how much we subsidize it.

a reply to: harvestdog

Yes I read that, and the cause of that is moisture and temperature not the ethanol alone.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Then don't buy E15.... You don't have to buy it.

a reply to: Apollumi

The one's who did the responsible thing like saved up money to buy a older used car because it was in their means will be the one's affected. But hey they are just poor people who can take mass transit I guess.

a reply to: harvestdog

No they won't! This isn't saying we are going to e 15 only which is what would affect older cars. You can still buy the normal e10.

originally posted by: boncho

Here’s an idea. Rather than requiring oil refiners to pump more of this dirty and expensive fuel into gasoline supplies, the federal government should abandon the ethanol requirement altogether.

Alcohol is dirty? hahahahaha Okay. So...uh, try drinking some ethanol, then take a swig of crude oil. Tell me which one you think is more 'dirty'.

When articles have such obvious bias in them they aren't worth the bits they are typed out on.

It might be in your best interest, as well as the people who starred you, to use this thing called google or one of many search engines before coming on and as post something like this. Especially if your going to include severe sarcasm and borderline rudeness while doing so. Doesn't make you look very good nor very intelligent, especially on a forum such as this.

iTruthSeeker

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

It is almost like you could practice what you preach and use Google to show why what was said was incorrect.

a reply to: dogstar23

I was wondering if anyone else caught that. Seems like this is just an excuse to rile people up.

originally posted by: harvestdog
a reply to: Apollumi

The one's who did the responsible thing like saved up money to buy a older used car because it was in their means will be the one's affected. But hey they are just poor people who can take mass transit I guess.

I agree with you. I'm poor. Bought a 2002 pickup because I could afford to pay cash for it back about 5 years ago and is the reason I clicked on this thread. I'm still relying on it and wanted to gather information.

Let's be honest though. How often can you tell people the truth about anything? People freak the hell out. But tell them a favorable lie they want to hear what is said and watch them call you and honest man and lavish praise. You have to just let them live in their own reality for now and turn a blind eye when they have to deal with the consequences later.

The more grand truth is this worldwide society is losing steam and probably headed for a bad place. The current size of the population is a direct result of relatively cheap energy. Me, I'd want to warn the people so that they could prepare. Even if I did that though somebody else would jump up and say I did not know what I was talking about and that is the person they would believe because this is just their nature.

Energy: The EPA’s proposal to increase the amount of ethanol that must be blended into gasoline is a trifecta of regulatory abuse. It will do nothing for the environment, it will do nothing for energy security, and it could wreck millions of car engines.

There is another argument to made against this.

Since the invention of the church of climatology, and government agencies such as the EPA making their own rules up as they go along.

The shelf life of gasoline has dramatically been reduced.

That means for people in areas like the coast that depend on generators for power.

And the KICKER of it all.

Is that we are BURNING food sources for FUEL!

That makes sense people!!

Burning FOOD.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

It is almost like you could practice what you preach and use Google to show why what was said was incorrect.

I could... But I wont..... I tend to do my own research, not waste my time doing it for other people.

iTruthSeeker

The whole concept of ethanol in gasoline is messed up.
Let's put something in our gas to make it burn less efficiently so we have to burn more gas to go the same distance.