Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

My point to the OP is some of this is a mental health issue, based on "other" behavior they engage in, it just has to be.
You can't say it's 100% a mental health issue for some, it's a choice for sure. The percentage that it's a mental breakdown is unknown, I don't venture a guess.

I believe there is much truth in your words -- I just don't know how much and I don't think anyone does. I'm not sure we can. Individuals are so varied in so many ways.

But when it happens to 65 year old retired guy that has 4 kids 3 grandkids and has been married for 35 years....I call that as I see it, a nervous breakdown that creates mental instability.

It would probably be impossible to identify every contributing factor to his breakdown. But it seems he may fit into the autogynephile category and that he had his breakdown after the progression reached a certain point. From my reading and research, this seems to be an important issue for self-identified autogynephiles, who want the condition recognized, researched and treated. They understand and fear where the progression will take them. They don't want to end up like your friend.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

My point to the OP is some of this is a mental health issue, based on "other" behavior they engage in, it just has to be.
You can't say it's 100% a mental health issue for some, it's a choice for sure. The percentage that it's a mental breakdown is unknown, I don't venture a guess.

I believe there is much truth in your words -- I just don't know how much and I don't think anyone does. I'm not sure we can. Individuals are so varied in so many ways.

But when it happens to 65 year old retired guy that has 4 kids 3 grandkids and has been married for 35 years....I call that as I see it, a nervous breakdown that creates mental instability.

It would probably be impossible to identify every contributing factor to his breakdown. But it seems he may fit into the autogynephile category and that he had his breakdown after the progression reached a certain point. From my reading and research, this seems to be an important issue for self-identified autogynephiles, who want the condition recognized, researched and treated. They understand and fear where the progression will take them. They don't want to end up like your friend.

Accept autogynaphiles as a theory is pretty weak. As you have been provided with plenty of info at this point I assume you are agenda driven.

Autogynephilia isn't even a real thing the way you are using it. There may be a small sub group of narcissists that apply to this but the theory as a whole is not advanced by any scientific data. There isn't any. The theory has been discredited in psychology the way you are using it.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: network dude

Stories are cropping up now of people, usually women, being followed or asked if they're women as they're trying to go into a bathroom. One woman has been arrested for trying to use the women's room. What about trans kids in schools and trans people at their jobs... where birth gender is known by persons of authority?

But the pictures you and your group keep showing are ones that unless you told me, they were trans, nobody would know. To date, I can't say I have ever seen a trans person I could say "hey, that person looks like they are not the right sex". I have seem people who appeared androgynous, but they aren't necessarily converting to anything, perhaps just not worrying about how they look. If you want to further this discussion in a positive way, you need to stop the pictures of fully transitioned people. They aren't the ones this will be affecting, and if you do actually care, helping others know what to expect would be the best way to accomplish that. (IMHO)

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: network dude

Stories are cropping up now of people, usually women, being followed or asked if they're women as they're trying to go into a bathroom. One woman has been arrested for trying to use the women's room. What about trans kids in schools and trans people at their jobs... where birth gender is known by persons of authority?

But the pictures you and your group keep showing are ones that unless you told me, they were trans, nobody would know. To date, I can't say I have ever seen a trans person I could say "hey, that person looks like they are not the right sex". I have seem people who appeared androgynous, but they aren't necessarily converting to anything, perhaps just not worrying about how they look. If you want to further this discussion in a positive way, you need to stop the pictures of fully transitioned people. They aren't the ones this will be affecting, and if you do actually care, helping others know what to expect would be the best way to accomplish that. (IMHO)

What to expect? It's called mind your own bussiness. If your gawking at people trying to figure out their gender you have become the perv. Doing inappropriate things in the restroom. Basically this whole thing is actually creating a problem by creating a situation where people want to police bathrooms and are acting like pedaphiles and perverts gawking in bathrooms.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: MountainLaurel

I don't think Bathrooms are really the "Heart" of why this issue is bothering a lot of people.

Sorry, didn't mean to say I'm accusing YOU of the diatribe inherent in this thread.

And you said a mouthful with this statement. As several folks have clearly shown this "issue" is not about bathroom safety, it's about establishing that Trans* folks (and of course, LGB) are really vile deviants who want to molest kids. It's payback for Obergefell.

As long as you insist that anyone in this conversation , including some "trans* folk" as you called them, that there is not a distinction between AGP and someone who is living , has become and has always identified as their chosen gender, is trying to paint all LGBT people as sexual deviants who want to molest children really does nothing to further the conversation. It's as disingenuous as AGP's who live double lives and try and convince the rest of us that WE caused them to hide who they really wanted to be.

Why does Katelyn Jenner provoke such an uneasy, dislike in so many people ? Is it because we are just all "haters" that "fear" someone being different ? I don't think that's the case, I think people "instinctively" take pause at her sincerity and motives. At the very least he pulled a "bait and switch" , enjoyed the benefits of living his life as a man, fathered several children and had several wives whom he HURT ! Shortly after killing another human being his priority was to tell the world he's really a woman and dominate the airways with how BRAVE and NORMAL he is ?! Woman of the Year....WTF ????

a reply to: network dude

You're ignoring a ton of other things in order to be okay with bathroom laws.

originally posted by: MountainLaurel

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: MountainLaurel

I don't think Bathrooms are really the "Heart" of why this issue is bothering a lot of people.

Sorry, didn't mean to say I'm accusing YOU of the diatribe inherent in this thread.

And you said a mouthful with this statement. As several folks have clearly shown this "issue" is not about bathroom safety, it's about establishing that Trans* folks (and of course, LGB) are really vile deviants who want to molest kids. It's payback for Obergefell.

As long as you insist that anyone in this conversation , including some "trans* folk" as you called them, that there is not a distinction between AGP and someone who is living , has become and has always identified as their chosen gender, is trying to paint all LGBT people as sexual deviants who want to molest children really does nothing to further the conversation. It's as disingenuous as AGP's who live double lives and try and convince the rest of us that WE caused them to hide who they really wanted to be.

Why does Katelyn Jenner provoke such an uneasy, dislike in so many people ? Is it because we are just all "haters" that "fear" someone being different ? I don't think that's the case, I think people "instinctively" take pause at her sincerity and motives. At the very least he pulled a "bait and switch" , enjoyed the benefits of living his life as a man, fathered several children and had several wives whom he HURT ! Shortly after killing another human being his priority was to tell the world he's really a woman and dominate the airways with how BRAVE and NORMAL he is ?! Woman of the Year....WTF ????

Problem with a lot of agp theory is trans womn use HRT which is very similar to chemical castrations used in other countries to lower sex drive. If the person was actually AGP the hormones would stop the want to transition. This is actually being studied and confirmed.

a reply to: network dude

But the pictures you and your group keep showing are ones that unless you told me, they were trans, nobody would know.... If you want to further this discussion in a positive way, you need to stop the pictures of fully transitioned people. They aren't the ones this will be affecting, and if you do actually care, helping others know what to expect would be the best way to accomplish that. (IMHO)

Thank you for making that point. Those people in the pics are not autogynephiles -- the type of transgender/transsexual being addressed in this thread. It seems to me to be a gross disservice to the vast majority of transgender/transsexual folks to lump them all in with the problem type addressed here. And it's a dangerous disservice to all of us to pretend like all transgender/transsexuals are the same as the kids in the pics. Ignorance is bliss only until it bites us in the butt.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

You mean, as long as i insist on pointing out what the OP and her supporters keep dishonestly claiming is not fact-based or scientifically-accepted?

Come on MountainLaurel ... don't join the host of false equivalences being made here.

AGPs eh? LOL. Now they go from a fake clinical term to a handy acronym? Okay.

Which "AGPs" are you talking about? Where are the statistics that back up your claims? The studies into this matter.

Why does Caitlyn Jenner provoke uneasiness? She doesn't in me and most of the folks I know (aside from her politics).

I haven't called you a hater, nor have I said you fear anything. Don't put words in my mouth and then claim I'm not being authentic.

So, your idea is that you can judge who is adequately Trans* and who isn't? What, you think you can read Jenner's mind?

The minds of those around you? You're the standard of who is "really Trans* and who isn't?

The more you post, the more you sound like this is all very personal for you ... as if you're projecting something from your personal life onto millions of people.

I submit that your personal opinion of who is justly Trans* and who is "AGP" or who deserves what rights is all very arbitrary and, I beg your pardon, apparently somewhat self-serving ... if not selfish.

Also, your personal opinion is one of several hundred million, just as mine is. However, as clearly demonstrated time and time again ... the realities of gender identification and sexual orientation as being separate from paraphilias is known, accepted by thousands of professionals in the medical, scientific and many legal communities.

As much as right-wingers hate the phrase, I'd say the consensus on this matter is quite clear.

a reply to: Boadicea

Holy crap! Have you read your own OP?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: network dude

But the pictures you and your group keep showing are ones that unless you told me, they were trans, nobody would know.... If you want to further this discussion in a positive way, you need to stop the pictures of fully transitioned people. They aren't the ones this will be affecting, and if you do actually care, helping others know what to expect would be the best way to accomplish that. (IMHO)

Thank you for making that point. Those people in the pics are not autogynephiles -- the type of transgender/transsexual being addressed in this thread. It seems to me to be a gross disservice to the vast majority of transgender/transsexual folks to lump them all in with the problem type addressed here. And it's a dangerous disservice to all of us to pretend like all transgender/transsexuals are the same as the kids in the pics. Ignorance is bliss only until it bites us in the butt.

Uh no.

You have no understanding of this and your op is very much unscientific and has some glaring fallacy you won't adress.

AGP does not exist how your op presents it.

It's an extremely unscientific theory (already provided evidence of this) when used in a broad manor as you have.

AGP will not actually transition because the sexual desire arousal will diminish not only as the hormones start working chemically but also when they cease being a male.

This fractional group of narcists is no reason at all to be worried about bathrooms. It's just the latest attempt of a failed support using "evidence" for not allowing people the liberty they deserve.

I don't like kkk people or religious fanatics (both having high levels of violence and pedaphilia) but I would never consider taking freedom away from people who haven't committed any crimes.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Boadicea

Holy crap! Have you read your own OP?

Of course I have.... big big sigh... and you knew that already.

Kali, take your stand and make any record you want. Post any links and quotes that you feel are relevant. Compare and contrast to your heart's content.

a reply to: Boadicea

Kali, take your stand and make any record you want. Post any links and quotes that you feel are relevant. Compare and contrast to your heart's content.

Myself and others have done that and you've ignored them all. I posted a graphic of states that have acknowledged the right of transgendered people to use the bathroom they feel comfortable with and how they don't have an increase of sexual assault due to them... you said that was off-topic.

My last post had to do with this statement you made:

It seems to me to be a gross disservice to the vast majority of transgender/transsexual folks to lump them all in with the problem type addressed here.

That is exactly what you did in your OP.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Boadicea

Kali, take your stand and make any record you want. Post any links and quotes that you feel are relevant. Compare and contrast to your heart's content.

Myself and others have done that and you've ignored them all. I posted a graphic of states that have acknowledged the right of transgendered people to use the bathroom they feel comfortable with and how they don't have an increase of sexual assault due to them... you said that was off-topic.

My last post had to do with this statement you made:

It seems to me to be a gross disservice to the vast majority of transgender/transsexual folks to lump them all in with the problem type addressed here.

That is exactly what you did in your OP.

I found that pretty funny too.

originally posted by: Invicid
The fear mongering over transgender topics on this board at this point isn't bordering on pathetic, it IS PATHETIC at this point.

Stop being afraid of what is different, instead embrace it. The person who started this thread, is an uneducated, fearful, ignorant.

hit the nail right on the head..fear and ignorance and uneducated has to stop......

a reply to: Kali74

No, Kali. I did not lump all transgender/transsexuals together. Using links, quotes, and my own words, I made very clear distinctions between the HSTS and the autogynephiles, and I also made very clear distinctions among autogynephiles based on sexual orientation (heterosexual to bisexual to asexual) and according to the stage of progression.

There may or may not be an increase in known sexual assaults in bathrooms; but the very need to stipulate "increase" as opposed to "incidents" confirms that there is a known danger. Further, in order to give those numbers any weight, I would have to know far more than the basic information provided. The most obvious example is that decriminalizing men in women's bathrooms means that what could have and would have been reported as a "crime" previously is no longer criminal and therefore would not be reported, much less recorded as an offense. The creepy man dressed in women's clothes leering and brushing by a woman accidentally-on-purpose is no longer reportable.

I get that you don't care how many women and children are put in harm's way, much less how many are actually hurt. Just collateral damage so to speak.

I do care.

So once again why is this more about male to female then female to male?

Do females to males use the mens room often?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
So once again why is this more about male to female then female to male?

Do females to males use the mens room often?

Because autogynephiles are born male, not female.

And because statistically speaking males -- of all genders and sexual orientations -- are the predominant predators in society.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Kali74

No, Kali. I did not lump all transgender/transsexuals together. Using links, quotes, and my own words, I made very clear distinctions between the HSTS and the autogynephiles, and I also made very clear distinctions among autogynephiles based on sexual orientation (heterosexual to bisexual to asexual) and according to the stage of progression.

There may or may not be an increase in known sexual assaults in bathrooms; but the very need to stipulate "increase" as opposed to "incidents" confirms that there is a known danger. Further, in order to give those numbers any weight, I would have to know far more than the basic information provided. The most obvious example is that decriminalizing men in women's bathrooms means that what could have and would have been reported as a "crime" previously is no longer criminal and therefore would not be reported, much less recorded as an offense. The creepy man dressed in women's clothes leering and brushing by a woman accidentally-on-purpose is no longer reportable.

I get that you don't care how many women and children are put in harm's way, much less how many are actually hurt. Just collateral damage so to speak.

I do care.

B S

You could care less.

It's far more common that a trans kid takes a beating and bullying for using the bathroom they don't identify with. Thats why schools have already been letting transitioning kids use the bathroom they identify with. Same with gov workers, same with many corporations and soon to be the military.

So get over it. No one is in harm's way.

You are more likely to have your kid get abused at daycare or Sunday school yet I don't see you petitioning for those kids.