MH17 crash: Victims' families sue Putin and Russia

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: Azureblue

Can you point to a source around the Australian Foreign minister's failure to get the tapes released, even if they have no actual bearing on the demonstrated culpability of Russia in the shooting down of MH17.

There was an article that mentioned it on Gumshoe News couple months or so ago now. Gumshoe articles are for the most part, written by the owners. One of whom is a lawyer and the other has a doctorate in something or other which i have forgotten now. Sometimes they have guest writers. They are currently exposing child abuse related events in Au.

gumshoenews.com...

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Azureblue

The control tower tapes have been released. There was even transcripts of them published by the media. Even if that wasn't the case, investigators have the black box from the flight. That's going to give them all the same data as the control tower tapes plus more.

So why would it matter if the control tower tapes hadn't been released?

Might you offer a link or something to those tapes or transcripts?

a reply to: Salander

I did.

a reply to: Xcalibur254


In your dreams, or on this thread? Sorry I missed it. Would it be asking too much for a description of where?

a reply to: Salander

The second to last post on the previous page. Azureblue even made a post thanking me for the link.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Azureblue

MH17: Transcript of flight's last moments reveals frantic efforts to contact disappeared plane

Notice how the article specifically mentions control tower data being used.

Most excellent and thank you for that.


It is interesting to note something I had not been aware of, that the Dutch noted that the craft likely suffered structural damage (not to mention death of the cockpit crew) from multiple objects entering from the outside, just as the pictures showed, cannon fire. That is about the same as the 911 Commission members noting that they had been set up to fail. Apparently there are a few honest men in the Dutch board, just as there were quite a few honest men within NTSB as they requested a re-examination of TWA 800 data.

But the article and transcript does not mention any change in routing or altitude as was discussed immediately after the incident, even as mentioned in some non-western media sources.

Thanks much, I stand by my understanding that the photographic evidence shows the ship was struck by cannon fire, that nobody has been able to get pictures of the supposed BUK launch, that photos showing the ship's last 30 seconds or so showed one engine in flames and that BBC quickly withdrew those photos because they were fatal to the official narrative.

The crew was killed so quickly by the cannon fire that they never even got a word out over the radio.

originally posted by: Salander
It is interesting to note something I had not been aware of, that the Dutch noted that the craft likely suffered structural damage (not to mention death of the cockpit crew) from multiple objects entering from the outside, just as the pictures showed, cannon fire.

Actually, the Dutch Safety Board said the below, taken as a direct quote from their report summary, which can be found here - Dutch Safety Board report. If you actually read the report, you will see cannon fire was ruled out, and they explain why. It categorically was not gunfire that downed MH17 - see page 126. The report also covers a lot about air traffic control.

The in-flight disintegration of the aeroplane near the Ukrainian/Russian border was the result of the detonation of a warhead. The detonation occurred above the left hand side of the cockpit. The weapon used was a 9N314M-model carried on the 9M38-series of missiles, as installed on the Buk suface-to-air missile system.

Other scenarios that could have led to the disintegration of the aeroplane were considered, analysed and excluded based on the evidence available.

a reply to: Salander

Again, find the altitude change in the ADS-B data sent directly from the plane. It's out there from non- government sources, and oddly enough, it shows consistent altitude the entire flight, from before they ever crossed into Ukrainian airspace.

Also funny how even the manufacturer of the BUK says that it was one of their missiles, but it's still canon fire.

a reply to: Zaphod58


Here is a bit more information on this topic, with much insight.

www.globalresearch.ca...

I saw the evidence of the cannon fire, and I saw the evidence of an engine burning.

That those photos and testimony were so quickly removed from public purview speaks volumes about the cover-up and deception.

a reply to: Salander

And they somehow convinced the Russian manufacturer of the BUK to admit that it was a version of one of their missiles. Amazing.

a reply to: Salander

here you go. first nine articles.
www.voltairenet.org...

originally posted by: Salander
I saw the evidence of the cannon fire, and I saw the evidence of an engine burning.

The Dutch Safety Board discounted cannon fire damage. The reasons are in the report I posted above. Simply put, cannon fire holes would not be of the number and variety of sizes and shapes, some of the "shapes" passing through the aircraft's skin and ending up in people. These being shapes were the size, shape and format the fragmentation from a missile from a Buk launcher.

This cannon fire obsession has been widely debunked. Surprise you are still trying to push it.

a reply to: paraphi

"This cannon fire obsession has been widely debunked. Surprise you are still trying to push it."
And you have evidence to back up this assertion?
piccy
www.anderweltonline.com...

"So far, no official authority has clarified the circumstances of the downing of flight MH17 over Donbass. However, the Obama administration, despite the lack of evidence and based on its subjective conviction, pinned the blame on the Self-Defense Forces of the People’s Republics of Lugansk and Donetsk. It has applied economic sanctions against Moscow, which protects these republics, and has admitted having coerced the European Union into doing the same.

On September 10, the authorities of the Netherlands, in charge of the investigation, released a preliminary report on the tragedy. They confirmed that the aircraft disintegrated in flight because of "damage caused by external impact from numerous high-energy objects." However, neither the nature nor the origin of these projectiles was elucidated."


www.voltairenet.org...

a reply to: username74

No other aircraft could have shot down the plane either, the JIT concluded.

www.rt.com...

The theory that one of the BUK missile launchers controlled by the Ukrainian military and shown by the Russian satellite imagery shot down MH17 has now received strong public endorsement as a result of a presentation made today (2nd June 2015) by the BUK missile system’s manufacturer Almaz-Antey.

The Almaz-Antey presentation confirms MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile, burying once and for all the SU 25 theory, about which regular readers of Russia Insider will know I have always been skeptical.

russia-insider.com...

a reply to: paraphi

oh, and can you explain this also?
slavyangrad.org...

a reply to: Zaphod58

conclusion based on this study.
www.om.nl...@96068/jit-flight-mh17-shot/

"The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) consists of investigators and experts from the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia, Malaysia and Ukraine"
and so a suspect and a victim get to run the investigation.

another, two days before your source
www.rt.com...

www.rt.com...

a reply to: username74

So we can't trust the JIT report because Ukraine is involved but we should believe everything coming out of Russia even though they're the prime suspect?

The JIT report is actually backed up by evidence that no one has refuted at this point. Meanwhile Russia's many attempts to muddy the waters were debunked. Most within just a few hours of being presented.

a reply to: username74

So again, the people that actually make the missile used are apparently so utterly incompetent that they can't even identify one of their own missiles.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

no need to be petulant.
plenty of evidence in and around all sources

www.voltairenet.org...

themillenniumreport.com...

you might want to have a look at mh370 in regard to this.
themillenniumreport.com...

and dont foget the notables in the passenger manifests in both aircraft.

maylasia being one of the nations that found bush and tony b.liar guilty.

intelligence data extrapolation revolves mainly around probabilities and visual data
Extrapolation is an estimation of a value based on extending a known sequence of values or facts beyond the area that is certainly known. In a general sense, to extrapolate is to infer something that is not explicitly stated from existing information.
Interpolation is an estimation of a value within two known values in a sequence of values. Polynomial interpolation is a method of estimating values between known data points. When graphical data contains a gap, but data is available on either side of the gap or at a few specific points within the gap, interpolation allows us to estimate the values within the gap.
in simple terms "what are the chaces of that?..."
y'know 2 planes ,3 buildings , that sort of thing. lol.

a reply to: Zaphod58

noone said that.
the world is not so clear cut.