EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

a reply to: Zaphod58

Not being funny but with some of these comments i'm going to add my own suggestion for safety to be considered when ditching at sea.

How about, a system that jettisons the wings at 5metres ...... deploys a powered RAT type system to use as propellers instead of power input then you have a mini submarine ...... i mean, the wings are the biggest problem on a ditch right?

"Sully" in the Hudson was dangerous enough, in the sea or ocean its impossible

Ha - this is interesting because I just had a discussion with someone from General Atomics that they experimenting with forced detachable wings on the MQ-9.

Removed due to my own laziness.

originally posted by: flyandi
Ha - this is interesting because I just had a discussion with someone from General Atomics that they experimenting with forced detachable wings on the MQ-9.

There goes my patent lol

a reply to: Zaphod58

Or a decompression which produces fog, fog can also trigger a smoke detector alarm.
However, there is no smoke alarm from within the cockpit.

We will have certainty when the blackboxes are found and retreived.
Something that won't be easy because the mediteranian sea is quite deep in that area.

a reply to: earthling42

Is there any indication about the length of times between the ACARS messages? Not sure if these sensors went off milliseconds from eachother, or a longer duration. Is the 00:26Z, 00:27Z time in minutes?

a reply to: mzinga
That is the time of the message.

Zulu time.

a reply to: mzinga

Minutes, signal was lost at 00:29.xx



Large

The wreckage will tell the truth. Air France Flight 447 was also an Airbus and it crashed intact due to fault (iced over) in the pitot-static system.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Can I have a link please? I'd like to use this in my Aviation Accident Investigation class.

Do you remember the ValuJet Flight 592 crash? Google it, you might be interested. Long story short, extreme fire in the cargo bay.

a reply to: earthling42

a reply to: Jaxsmash

Link

a reply to: earthling42

The salvage and dive unit out of Pearl Harbor retrieved the entire wreckage of, I think it was, a CH-46 from 14,000 feet under the Pacific. It can be done, just like you said, it won't be easy.

a reply to: Jaxsmash

That was also a crew coordination problem as well. The iced over pitot tubes started the chain but the crew played a pretty big role in that too.

For what it's worth...

11.5. FCU faults

Loss of a single channel will result in the spare channel automatically taking over. All that is required is a cross check of the baro refs.

Loss of both channels leads to loss of all FCU and EFIS panels. The autopilots and autothrust are lost and parameters that are normally controlled by the panels revert to sensible default values. If the weather radar image remains displayed, disregard it since the scale will be incorrect.

[AUTO FLT FCU 1(2)(1+2) FAULT, FCOM DSC.22_10.50, FCOM PRO.ABN.22]

Link

5.9. SEC fault

Each SEC controls either 1 or 2 spoilers per wing. SEC 1 and 2 also provide back up for the ELACs (see Section 5.8, “ELAC fault”). Loss of a SEC leads to loss of its associated spoilers. SEC 1 provides spoiler position to the FACs. If speedbrakes are deployed with SEC 1 u/s and SEC 3 operative, spoiler 2 will deploy without a corresponding increase in VLS. Therefore, do not use speedbrake if SEC 1 is affected (it won’t do much anyway!).

Pairs of SECs also provide the signal for reverse thrust lever angle to the reversers and spoiler deployment to the autobrake. A dual SEC failure will therefore lead to a loss of a reverser and loss of autobraking.

If all SECs are lost, all the above holds true. Furthermore the flight controls revert to Alternate Law due to the complete loss of spoilers. Also, due to routing of LGCIU data to the ELACs via the SECs, Direct Law will occur at slat extension rather than gear extension.

An attempt should be made to reset the affected SEC(s).

[F/CTL SEC 1(2)(3) FAULT, FCOM DSC.27.20.40, FCOM PRO.ABN.27]

5.8. ELAC fault

In normal operations, ELAC 1 controls the ailerons and ELAC 2 controls the elevators and stabiliser. Failure of a single ELAC will result in failover to the remaining computer. Provided no uncommanded manoeuvres occurred, an attempt can be made to reset the failed ELAC.

Failure of both ELACs leads to loss of ailerons and hence Alternate Law. One of the SECs will take over control of the elevators and stabiliser. Again, an attempt can be made to reset the computers.

If the fault is designated a pitch fault, only the pitch function of the associated ELAC is lost.

[F/CTL ELAC 1(2) FAULT, FCOM DSC.27.20.40, FCOM PRO.ABN.27]

Data on smoke and fumes procedures

Airbus A320 Family Non-Normal Notes
Version 2.2

Link

Procedure on a emergency descent is a 90 degree left turn if initiating from an established airway at cruise. This may explain the 90 degree turn, and it may also have been their mayday.

Sure would be good if someone could find the Z times for the turns (particularly the left turn). I haven't been able to find those anywhere.

As more time goes by without any group claiming responsibility for the crash, the likelihood of a terrorist attack seems very slim.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor


I cant see why all airliners cant have a parachute system that deploys in an emergency situation many small planes have this now.

a reply to: redshoes

Can't think of an alternative explanation for how the horizontal stabilizer would have been lost completely though short of the tail breaking off. AFAIK if both the hydraulic controls fail, there's a cable back up on the A320.

Been number of well known cases of aircraft losing control during cruise

United 595/US Air 427 - rudder jammed hard over by problem with hydraulic control unit

Alaska 206 - broken jack screw which control horizontal stabilizer

a reply to: Zaphod58

Fire burning through the floor would cut the flight control cables and leave the aircraft out of control. The pilots would be trying to save the aircraft and probably not worried about radioing a distress call.

I'm betting the deicing unit in the window caught fire. There was an issue a few years ago where they warned that it could short and start a cockpit fire.

Fires in aircraft

Swiss Air 111 - fire started by short in wiring for inflight entertainment system - crashed near Halifax NS

South Africa 295 747 combination freighter/passenger Helderberg - possible contraband rocket propellant/missile being
transported , crashed Indian Ocean

Valuejet 592 - improperly stored oxygen generators in cargo compartment ignited fire , crashed in Everglades

Air Canada 797 - fire in rear bathroom ignited inflight fire - landed Cincinnati Ohio, numerous passenger killed while attempting to escape fire

There are others - inflight fires are not unknown.....