KPB's Friendly Chat about Jacques Vallee, "The Control Loop" and other Pseudo-science

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Seems a shame when, statistically at least, that information may have proven to be extremely valuable.
Even as a subset to the main body of their expertise.
Babies and bathwater and all that.
Thanks Kev.
Will drift no more.

a reply to: Tulpa

Naw. I want to "drift" too.

I started a new post, just for people who want to chat with me about similar subjects,
without focusing on Jacques Vallee.

Here:

KPB's Friendly, but "Insane Ramblings" about Post-Singularity Machine Elves and Assorted Madness

I'll keep posting to both threads.

Thanks!

Hey Kev; thanks for the PM.

Almost certainly would've missed it with everything going on. I've read through the first page and it's very well done. A little surprised we haven't gotten to the nuts and bolts (pun intended) but I'd like to read through and offer some thoughts.

One thing though, on my drive from work today (it's long) I was considering how those with power are typically one way or another occultists. Than thinking how that works with karma and law of attraction because no doubt in my life it's a constant realization. Except however...occultism, unless you consider mantras occultism. If so, it's like soft porn anyhow.

Anyways, I began to think of priests and their naughty ways as well as politicians. I noticed a commonality, a dance around free will. It's one thing to convince some idiot to murder someone, quite another to do it yourself

Rules of the control system.

I bring that up because at some point a realization must take place as it did with Vallee, that a discussion of what if's are moot. We need to test the system, a real stress test. Like those in marketing do to us monkeys.

It's time for "laymen" to test how far their reality stretches, which incidentally goes way beyond a "Mandela Effect". Personally, i don't think our past is as static as we believe it to be, Regardless if we experienced it.

Perhaps the genesis Model for a test?

I'm

Our history's a wave!

No, it's a particle.

A wave I say!

.....Fillet-O-Fish.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Not a bad thought.

It's what I mentioned earlier. Everyone and everything seems to be in a "zone".

If you want to "affect a zone", you need the permission of the controller(s) of that particular "zone".

So you are right---getting someone or something to volunteer is the only way.

And it's not a matter of "individual free will", as "individuals" are temporary at best, and nonexistent at worst.

Thanks for stopping by.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hi there, Mr Bear. In your title you mention a 'control loop' and others have mentioned similar. Where does Jaques Vallee talk about this (in which book), what does he say about it and what is it?

I can't quite understand the meaning (and you know I do like clarity ) so where can I find out about it?
Hope all is good with you today,

B x

I firmly believe, after 55 years of interacting with "the Phenomenon", that seeing "It" as either good or evil is just human nonsense. The laws of physics are neither good nor evil, and what we are interacting with seems to be extremely conversant with those laws of physics. I used to call the Phenomenon "the Sentient Laws of Physics", but I can't begin to back that up, even with pseudoscience. So I don't say that any longer. But I'd say that we ARE in this "fish pond" here on Earth, and probably not entirely alone.. it would be good to learn who our neighbors really are, rather than getting caught up in self-generated nonsense about good and evil.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

What you say here resonates with me. I very often experience weird things happening in my electronic designs that I can't begin to explain. Many times things fail or intermittently work as if just trying to mess with me. We don't know what causes the effects we witness on a fundamental level anyway, and sometimes I feel that the physics that we use to try to explain these happenings is just a lame attempt to nail down the abstract world which is the stomping grounds for these critters. Sure, we use the science to try to explain the world we see and we are able to manipulate this world for effect but I think they live in it in a way that we can never fully understand.

I agree we are in a sort of fish pond here on Earth, but I think it's closer to the truth to say that rather than fellow fish, we should be looking for these "neighbors" in the very water in which we swim. I think they are more part of the fabric than they are the embroidery on it. Sometimes I toy with the idea that they are wholly responsible for our technology. It might be closer to magic than we think.

a reply to: beansidhe

This is a great reference:

www.ufoevidence.org...
In The Invisible College (E.P. Dutton, 1975) Vallee posits the idea of a "control system." UFOs and related phenomena are "the means through which man's concepts are being rearranged." Their ultimate source may be unknowable, at least at this stage of human development; what we do know, according to Vallee, is that they are presenting us with continually recurring "absurd" messages and appearances which defy rational analysis but which nonetheless address human beings on the level of myth and imagination.

"When I speak of a control system for planet earth," he says, " I do not want my words to be misunderstood: I do not mean that some higher order of beings has locked us inside the constraints of a space-bound jail, closely monitored by psychic entities we might call angels or demons. I do not propose to redefine God. What I do mean is that mythology rules at a level of our social reality over which normal political and intellectual action has no power…."

Now that's Vallee's restrained opinion.

I myself have a bit of a different take on it.

As you know, it is my opinion that human beings consciousness is laced with components which cause the "collective unconsciousness" to feed back into each other and also into external systems.

I'm saying that these feedback loops are "neutral", and agree with JV that we are not 'in a cage' or that this has to do with "god".

The closest thing to a cage we experience, is the "self-created cognitive filter" that we are co-creating with the help of "Another" which has arisen due to our own collective activity.

Is that better?

Kev

a reply to: wtbengineer

A very interesting response!

Well it would seem that "the Phenomenon" can see into the near future at a minimum;

I can't say exactly where "they" live, ultimately.

In our nervous system - yes.. in a more passive form.

In the space/time continuum in some manner? - seems that way.

These are some of the questions I'd like to get answered.

Kev

I was rather amiss.. this one interview from JV is really eye-opening:

Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

Most people who research "UFOs" have no idea that, at least the high strangeness ones, are in fact SO UNUSUAL, that no possible twisting of the ETH could possibly explain them.

For example from the article:

Vallee: Not necessarily. We have evidence that the phenomenon has the ability to create a distortion of the sense of reality or to substitute artificial sensations for the real ones. Look at some of the more bizarre close encounter cases - for example the incident from South America in which one man believed he had been abducted by a UFO while his companion thought he had boarded a bus which had suddenly appeared on the road behind then. It is conceivable that there is one phenomenon which is visual and another which creates the physical traces. What I'm saying is that a strange kind of deception may be involved.

Now what really bakes my noodle here, is my firm "belief" that we are "collaborating" on our own 'deception'. I don't view human beings as victims.. i view us, as a whole anyway, as "co-creators" of the "Phenomenon".

So we are really doing some messed up stuff Maynard.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That is excellent, thank you so much.

What I do mean is that mythology rules at a level of our social reality over which normal political and intellectual action has no power…."

He's so right with that - I wonder if there is an upsurge in sightings of fairies/UFO's/whatever at times of societal change and upheaval, when norms are being challenged and reworked?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks for your comments and kind words. I'd like answers to those questions as well. I don't know if I've ever told you about my other experiences, which I think are very much related to the current discussion. I won't get into it very deeply here, but I grew up in a "haunted house" and experienced loads of horrifying things up through my teen years. And even saw a broad daylight UFO/UAP back in the mid 90s that just vanished when it was done getting my attention. Life is really weird, nothing like we want so desperately to believe.

Most people who research "UFOs" have no idea that, at least the high strangeness ones, are in fact SO UNUSUAL, that no possible twisting of the ETH could possibly explain them.

This! This is something that I was never even aware of until I got into JV's works really heavily a number of years ago. I can probably thank The Gut for that! I also want to tip my hat to him here.

I think the above is what convinced me that Vallee was really on to something. It's interesting how all the nuts and bolts guys ignore some of the most relevant data when it doesn't fit into their expectations looking at cases through the extra-terrestrial hypothesis lens.

He's so right with that - I wonder if there is an upsurge in sightings of fairies/UFO's/whatever at times of societal change and upheaval, when norms are being challenged and reworked?

a reply to: beansidhe

Such a good question, and so familiar to me. Does JV ask the same thing somewhere in his writings? I can't remember where I've read that.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Now what really bakes my noodle here, is my firm "belief" that we are "collaborating" on our own 'deception'. I don't view human beings as victims.. i view us, as a whole anyway, as "co-creators" of the "Phenomenon".

After reading O'Brians book; I went on a "high Strangeness" quest in the valley combined with a little fishing up by Salida on the Ark. ri. I always wondered what part did I play in the weird theater of the absurd I encountered.

I'm planning another trip to check out a story I heard about up near Antonito. What a strange place!!


www.goodreads.com...

a reply to: wtbengineer

I don't know if he does, I've not read much of his work. It is more likely though, that I'm just not very original.
If, as Vallee suggests, that 'they' speak to us through myth, a shared language we somehow inherently understand, it would suggest that they have a motive for doing so.
For keeping us on the right track, maybe?

a reply to: beansidhe

Why don't you research that for us?

I know you mainly research Faerie lore...but after reading even part of Magonia,

It should be obvious that at least some of UFO lore IS "Faerie Lore".

Kev

a reply to: olaru12

That's interesting.

And a very good question.

You may very well be a "high strangeness typhoid Mary" like so many researchers are.

Kev

a reply to: wtbengineer

The question of what causes "waves" is the hottest question of all. I did discuss this with JV.

The jury is out on this one.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear



Ok, I'm on it.