Did Jesus Ever Really Intend For "Christianity"?

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

I think that Jesus was a groovy dude! He turned water into wine and hung out with people that the modern "Christians" would shun (Prostitutes, thieves, tax collectors). Jesus only had 2 major rules: (1) Love God and (2) Love they neighbor as thyself. He never asked to be worshipped, he only asked that people treat each other with the love and respect they would want for themselves. I believe if Jesus were alive today and saw what has happened in His name he would be extremely sad and probably very pissed off!

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

We all have to walk our own paths in life.

I find what he says to be pretty plain myself. He knows his sheep, they know Him. If you think He can be easily misinterpreted, then perhaps you don't know His voice?

I love reading these threads

It 's hilarious when everyone demands proof, yet none is forthcoming and the bible is cited as fact.

Carry on

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

"No Dice" They were ALL doing their own thing.. Shiva, Krishna, Jesus The Chris†, Lao Tzu ALL of them were doing their thing and it wasn't until they were gone did 'Man' (Mr. Yang-especially after re-writing the first version when Adamu and Lilith were 'equals') try to control all the while making a tax free Bu¢k..

"Religion™ is for folks afraid of Hell, "Spirituality" is for folks who've already been..."- The Great Sioux Nation

I could be a complete moron here

But isn't the whole point of Christianity forgiveness, love, betterment of oneself ?

From your true core being

originally posted by: cody599
I could be a complete moron here

But isn't the whole point of Christianity forgiveness, love, betterment of oneself ?

From your true core being

Along with faith, yes. And as you look at what He taught, there are also some morals mixed in there too.

a reply to: ketsuko

Perhaps so.

a reply to: ketsuko
By the way, you come across very condescending and arrogant. You are not above anybody just because you believe in something, and neither are you below.

So much for this thread. These always end up rolling down the same tired path.

So Jesus never intended to form a new religion?

Jesus was Jewish of that there is no dispute...
But Jesus did not agree with all of the held Jewish beliefs or the ways and thought process of the highest Jewish holy men of the time...
In fact a good many things repulsed him...
Now that is not saying that Jesus was not a good Jew it means that the Jewish being men were in error and he spoke of such concerns...

But to say...Jesus did not wish to form a new religion...
Is rather an unlearned premise and an outright lie...
What is more...
The OP obviously forms his opinions based upon his own thoughts instead of the scriptures...Because he came to live and die as man for all mankind to create a new covenant for all mankind...

He did not come only for Jewish people he came and died for everybody...
This is therefore a new teaching...
There was a new covenant for all mankind through his death for the sin of all mankind...
Hence the New Testament...
Before Jesus returns prophecy must be filled 2 very important signs from Jewish people will be...
The rebuilding of the Temple...
And that Jewish people will convert to the belief that Jesus was and is the Messiah...
They in other words accept new teaching it will be their very faith which changes...
That is an obvious indication of a seperate faith system...
This was prophesied by Jewish prophets by the way...

Jesus refered to himself as the Truth the Light and the Way...
When Jesus spoke these words he himself destroyed your OP when he speaks on this very matter...

Matthew 16:18

New Living Translation
Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means 'rock'), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.


In case that is not clear to you...
That was Jesus talking about starting his new religion...

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

All I can say is hello pot on that one. You want to tell me I am condescending when you are here telling me I am easily misinterpreting what he said and that things are added all over without giving evidence of it with proof.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 10:14-38

Here is fuller context which I was countering you from.

a reply to: ketsuko

Jesus warned of false prophets like Paul.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

And the verses under debate are John, not Paul.

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

The very first sentence yes yes yes.

All of the books talks more about the fall of religion. But man kind needs something to help them understand other people. The sad part about religion is it's well kept secret of complete destruction.
Honestly I see the book of revelation as nothing more than the new recreation of a religion that already exists.

That's why in the Bible they keep saying to look for the man bearing two fish. For his way of life will be the new model for living.

All of the current systems are failing. It is time for a new one.

a reply to: ketsuko

The title of this thread is "Did Jesus Ever Really Intend For "Christianity"?" Paul is responsible for the foundation of modern Christianity.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

The title of this thread is "Did Jesus Ever Really Intend For "Christianity"?" Paul is responsible for the foundation of modern Christianity.

Interesting considering the Catholic Church and the Popes claim their descent from Peter.

is it blaspheme or considered a sin to put words in the mouth of what some consider the son of the god.

what else did jesus not intend to do, i bet deep inside he hated carpentry.
im not surprised people think they know what jesus (or other 'prophets ) really wanted to do. weve been doing it for ages.

originally posted by: solongandgoodnight
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, he was correct in what he said according to the gospels. But not the way you're probably thinking. Remember John 10:34?

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

We are as divine as he is according to Jesus.

This is just patently false. This is Jesus' condemnation of those who are judging him. Let's put it in context so you can see the errors in your thinking.

First the OT scripture that Jesus is quoting from. Psalms 82. A condemnation of the Sanhedrin and other rulers in places of authority that were using that power in a corrupt manner. The statement 'ye are gods', small g, emphasizes that they were, at the time, supposed to be righteous judges acting on behalf of God, put in place by God. Ego, power and influence had taken over and the scripture is that of rebuke.

PS82
"1
God takes His stand in [a]His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.
2
How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked? [c]Selah.
3
Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
4
Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

5
They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6
[d]I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
7
“Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes.
8
Arise, O God, judge the earth!
For it is You who possesses all the nations."

In John 10 that you were picking from, Jesus was dealing with the Pharisees that were looking to have him killed because of blasphemy. They too, like the judges of old, were put into the place for Gods good purpose but instead of seek truth they fell in to ego, unrighteousness, legalism and spiritual death. Jesus, in John 10 is rebuking them in the same manner that the psalmist did in ps82. Jews would have known exactly what he was talking about when quoting.

Here is the context of your single scripture so you might have a better understanding of what Christ was talking about.

When read together a picture develops about unrighteousness in those who are in positions of power.

John 10 31-38
"31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may [f]know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

I hope you can see the error in your thinking. I use to believe that same as you did, that the picked quote alluded to our divinity but further study corrected that error within my thinking, as I hope it does with yours.

a reply to: ketsuko

So you are bound and determined that he must never, ever have existed?

I didn't say anything of the sort. My conversation was with "LesMis" who fancies himself "logical", and who opined that Jesus didn't "live long enough."

I stand by my statement, that the biblical character "Jesus Christ", born of a virgin, man/god miracle worker who rose from the dead...never existed.

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer

originally posted by: solongandgoodnight
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, he was correct in what he said according to the gospels. But not the way you're probably thinking. Remember John 10:34?

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

We are as divine as he is according to Jesus.

This is just patently false. This is Jesus' condemnation of those who are judging him. Let's put it in context so you can see the errors in your thinking.

First the OT scripture that Jesus is quoting from. Psalms 82. A condemnation of the Sanhedrin and other rulers in places of authority that were using that power in a corrupt manner. The statement 'ye are gods', small g, emphasizes that they were, at the time, supposed to be righteous judges acting on behalf of God, put in place by God. Ego, power and influence had taken over and the scripture is that of rebuke.

PS82
"1
God takes His stand in [a]His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.
2
How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked? [c]Selah.
3
Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
4
Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

5
They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6
[d]I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
7
“Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes.
8
Arise, O God, judge the earth!
For it is You who possesses all the nations."

In John 10 that you were picking from, Jesus was dealing with the Pharisees that were looking to have him killed because of blasphemy. They too, like the judges of old, were put into the place for Gods good purpose but instead of seek truth they fell in to ego, unrighteousness, legalism and spiritual death. Jesus, in John 10 is rebuking them in the same manner that the psalmist did in ps82. Jews would have known exactly what he was talking about when quoting.

Here is the context of your single scripture so you might have a better understanding of what Christ was talking about.

When read together a picture develops about unrighteousness in those who are in positions of power.

John 10 31-38
"31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may [f]know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

I hope you can see the error in your thinking. I use to believe that same as you did, that the picked quote alluded to our divinity but further study corrected that error within my thinking, as I hope it does with yours.

I respectfully disagree. I am very aware he was quoting Psalms, but I think he actually meant what he said. To me, he wasn't trying to tie something into the Psalms passage. He made the bold statement for a reason. It was a direct response to the Pharisees questioning him being God's son. I think he meant what he said.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: windword

Okay then. Hercules was a real person too, by that logic.

So much for critical thinking and research.

But, let me ask you this, take away the mysticism from Jesus Christ, and what have you got? Some rehashed Jewish theology from Leviticus and "modern" Jewish philosophy that was being discussed at the the same time by Hillel and by Philo of Alexandria?

Yes, stories, legends and myths can be based on real people. Is that so hard to believe? What part of your critical thinking and research leads you to believe otherwise? Because I don't think you have any.

There is no evidence, outside of the Bible, for this magic man, who supposedly had vast amounts of people follow him around, doing amazing things.

jesusneverexisted.com...