Caitlyn Jenner considering ‘de-transitioning’ ‘in the next couple years,’ author claims

a reply to: kaylaluv

And what if that doesn't resolve the issue? Do you honestly think no parent of a trans child has ever tried that? Do you know that some trans teens have killed themselves because their parents did and said the very thing you suggest?

I'm not so sure that's the case -- that transgender children (and particularly those with suicidal ideations) have received unconditional love and acceptance from their parents. At least not from what I've heard and read. In fact, as I understand it, many have had absolutely horrendous and abusive upbringings. Perhaps most. I cannot say all have. But there is too often a history of physical and/or emotional abuse involved. It's one reason it hurts my heart so much, because I know these kids are hurting and that I can never fully understand their pain, and that they are desperate for something -- anything -- to make that pain go away. To live and love and laugh and play and work and just feel good about themselves and their lives.

But sometimes what kids want and demand just isn't practical or reasonable or otherwise will not give them what they really need. We aren't doing them any favors if we give them what they want but it's exactly the opposite of what they need.

When my daughter was about 3 or 4 years old, she decided that her name was "really" Amy... I didn't start calling her Amy. When she was a teenager and she was going through her "dark" phase, I once told her that I just wanted her to be happy... and she screamed at the top of her lungs, "STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!!!" At that particular moment, she wanted to wallow in her misery... but I wasn't about to do everything in my power to make her life miserable. When she was vomiting up dried blood and so weak she couldn't even stand on her own two feet but didn't want to go back to the hospital AGAIN, I understood and it hurt my heart, but I didn't say, "Okay, go ahead and die from the internal bleeding" -- nope, her friend picked her up and carried her to my car and I took her to the hospital.

I understand why transitioning may seem to be the best answer to the challenges of transgenders. I even understand that for some, at this point, it may actually be their best option. But I also fear mightily for what we don't yet know but will find out the hard way. You mentioned earlier that maybe one day we'll find a better way. I hope and pray that's true.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

A person who is intelligent, determined, brave, and has means, is able to undo it.

What? Can you please explain that?

Do you mean with hormones and surgery?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

A person who is intelligent, determined, brave, and has means, is able to undo it.

What? Can you please explain that?

Do you mean with hormones and surgery?

Yes. And developing a lifestyle more in keeping with what makes them happy.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

A person who is intelligent, determined, brave, and has means, is able to undo it.

What? Can you please explain that?

Do you mean with hormones and surgery?

Yes. And developing a lifestyle more in keeping with what makes them happy.

Oh, OK - - I thought that is what you meant, just wasn't sure.

Wanted to make sure you weren't suggesting some type Reparative Therapy.

a reply to: Annee

nvm

originally posted by: Boadicea

I'm not so sure that's the case -- that transgender children (and particularly those with suicidal ideations) have received unconditional love and acceptance from their parents. At least not from what I've heard and read. In fact, as I understand it, many have had absolutely horrendous and abusive upbringings. Perhaps most. I cannot say all have. But there is too often a history of physical and/or emotional abuse involved. It's one reason it hurts my heart so much, because I know these kids are hurting and that I can never fully understand their pain, and that they are desperate for something -- anything -- to make that pain go away. To live and love and laugh and play and work and just feel good about themselves and their lives.

But sometimes what kids want and demand just isn't practical or reasonable or otherwise will not give them what they really need. We aren't doing them any favors if we give them what they want but it's exactly the opposite of what they need.

I'll leave the thread with this:

When Josh Alcorn voiced a desire to live as a girl, the Ohio teenager's parents said they wouldn't stand for that.

"We don't support that, religiously," Alcorn's mother told CNN on Wednesday, her voice breaking. "But we told him that we loved him unconditionally. We loved him no matter what. I loved my son. People need to know that I loved him.

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," the note says. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self. That's exactly what it did to me."

At 16, she wrote that she realized her "parents would never come around" and that she would have to wait until she was 18 to start any kind of medical treatment to transition to being a female.

That, she said, "absolutely broke my heart. ... I felt hopeless, that I was just going to look like a man in drag for the rest of my life."

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: kaylaluv

And that's the final debate. At what point? After years and years of saying "No, *this* is who I am," should they–can they— decide for themselves. Since it's been years, why not. It's likely not a "fad".

Reminds me of This thread: Transitioning from Jack to jackie at age three

We live in unconventional times.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: kaylaluv

And that's the final debate. At what point? After years and years of saying "No, *this* is who I am," should they–can they— decide for themselves. Since it's been years, why not. It's likely not a "fad".

Reminds me of This thread: Transitioning from Jack to jackie at age three

We live in unconventional times.

What? You want people to actually learn from someone's real experience?

Hey! Maybe the naysayers could ask a transgender. Nah, we've seen the results of that. They think they know better.

a reply to: Annee

They think people choose their orientation and identity. Why do we even bother?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Because some of them also think people should be denied basic rights and services because of that.

a reply to: Liquesence

Ok show me when their rights were being denied. It has been years and nobody knew.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Annee

They think people choose their orientation and identity. Why do we even bother?

Change one person's mind?

The one that always gets me is "Lifestyle".

I CHOOSE to Live this way. Even if I'm in a country that's going to kill me, I CHOOSE to Live this way.

Right.

a reply to: Annee

People won't usually learn until it personally affects them.

And they usually can't get by their own biases in order learn about differences, otherwise.

a reply to: Annee

Oh yeah somebody asked me the same thing. I asked that person if hetrosexuality was a lifestyle. Does it involve a beach and an umbrella?

The grass is always greener. It just strikes me as funny to think people need to express their "true self" by fighting against their own anatomy. Sex reassignment surgery is just self mutilation, really.

I've met some very nice transgender folks, but they still strike me as confused and suffering from inner turmoil.

Rigid gender roles a la 50s era America or earlier aren't good, but it just doesn't seem like the current trans craze is healthy either. It's just the other end of the extreme. It's fine and dandy for boys to wear girl clothes, but chopping up healthy body parts in service of a delusion ....no. Not good.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Annee

People won't usually learn until it personally affects them.

And they usually can't get by their own biases in order learn about differences, otherwise.

True.

Many say they've become accepting because of a family member, co-worker, etc.

a reply to: SisterDelirium

Sorry if I tell you if I don't believe you. And if you were telling the truth you probably met transvestites. That's what it sounds like to me.

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
The grass is always greener. It just strikes me as funny to think people need to express their "true self" by fighting against their own anatomy. Sex reassignment surgery is just self mutilation, really.

NO, its just different grass.

Their "true self" is their brain, not their body parts.

The majority of transgenders do not have reassignment surgery. It's a personal choice. It's also expensive.

If you only had your brain, your body was mutilated - - - would it change who you are? NO. Because, who you are is in your brain.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I would not have used that example to make my case. But since you did...

Talk is cheap. His parents didn't "love him unconditionally," but in fact tried to change him via their Christianity and therapy. He demanded one change... they demanded another. None of them accepted him for who he is.

Based on what I read of this case (and assuming it is true), the child was also quite manipulative and selfish with no thought for others... he wanted to hurt his parents in the worst way he knew how, and had no thought or care for anyone but himself and what he wanted.

Including the driver whose truck he threw himself in front of. That driver has to live with that for the rest of his life.

a reply to: Annee

I told you they wouldn't understand. They are too slow. Let them have the time.