Balaam's Fourth Oracle, the War Scroll and the sons of Seth

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: TefarimCanin

a reply to: Seede It is in the OP dude. The War Scroll quotes it verbatim also with sons of Sheth instead of Shethites. Book of Numbers 24:17...and all the territory of all the Shethites. It is even in the KJV and the Good News translation, the CEV, NRSV, and NIV. And the Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint and Masoretic Tanakh. Probably the Vulgate too. What "library" or Bible are you using?

I did another search and resorted to the Jewish Time line Encyclopedia as well as the Blackwell Dictionary of Judaica. I also double checked sixteen Gentile and the JPS translations and find no word such as Shethites.

Now if you mean Seth or Sheit who lived 130 After Adam to 1042 After Adam then you would be correct. But as you must understand you are wrong and cannot produce the word Shethites. There are some bibles that use the word Sheth and several that use the word tumult as a replacement for Seth. Once again there is no word in the scriptures that use the word Shethites. I believe that was the original claim. Please give your references.

Again you are baffling me. I said KJV, NIV, CVE, GNT,NRSV, Septuagint, Masoretic and DSS all have it in NUMBERS 24:17

"...and a scepter shall rise out of Israel; it shall crush the borderlands of Moab, and the territory OF ALL THE SHETHITES. ..."

Do you just say things thinking that they will become true?

Because you can't find a simple bible passage that all 5 of my house bibles have.

And I could not find a translation WITHOUT IT.

a reply to: Seede

Here 18 out of 21 translations saying either sons/children of Sheth/Seth or Shethites/Shethites with 3 replacing Sheth with tumult for no good reason as Seth means scribe.

Nevertheless 18/23 English translations, Numbers 24:17

So yeah. You might want to consider that you were looking in the wrong places, just wrong, or stating untrue things.

For the record, sons/children of Sheth/Seth =Shethites/Sethites.

I did not think it necessary to explain that (but it is the NRSV w/Apocrypha I quoted from). Why you wouldn't put that together on your own is a mystery.

Also Sheth or Set-hen/Typhon are considered by the Egyptians as Shem who leads the charge in killing Nimrod/Osiris.

So Sepher Ha Yasher or Book of the Correct Record has Esau as the assassin whose red hair matches the Egyptian description of Shem.

So to the Israelites the Shethites were probably devotees of Set and enemies of the Semites after having been allies.

To TefarimCanin

Let us put this to rest.

In my post I had asked you for a source of the word Shethite. You gave none other than that of the OP. I acknowledge that it is in the OP of the NRSV. CapstonePendulum and I had this understanding in another thread and I automatically acknowledged that the NRSV translation is vastly different than most others. I realized exactly what the OP threaded but it is not in my library.

This started not with the word Shethite/s but with Sethite/s and it was Chester John that made a remark that Sethite was not in the bible.

He did not say Shethite/s but he said Sethite/s.

Chester John said -
Quote - One, the term Sethite does not exist in the Bible.
two, All but 8 of them were killed off in the flood. Unquote

I agreed that all but eight of the tribes of Seth were killed in the flood. Nothing even hinted at Sethite/s.

Quote -Yes I agree. A Moabite is actually the seed of Adam or counted as the seed of the first procreation of Seth. Don't mean to be so complicated but that is what humans do. They make everything out to be so dag blamed complicated. Unquote

You then interjected with
Quote - How can you agree when he is wrong???
Shethites does appear in the bible. Unquote

When you jumped into the conversation is when you muddled it. A passing remark was made by Chester John of which I agreed and I still do agree. What I said was that in my library the word Shethite/s was not written and that still holds true. I do not have the NRSV bible nor the HCSB bible on hand but am aware the Shethites are written in those two works. Now that being said should set your mind at ease. Out of my rabbinic work and out of 16 gentile bibles there is neither the word Shethite nor the word Sethite. I am sure that you are wrong to say the KJV bible has either the word Shethite/s or Sethite/s. Chester John said Sethites and not Shethites as you have muddled the conversation.

As you have already seen I had not remarked upon the Shiloh interpretation simply because that is branched off in beliefs of both Hebrew/Judaic thought and Hebrew/Christian thought. You have your mind set and I have the same. One day we will both realize the truth.

You have an evil disposition and a very foul attitude. You should learn to read with care and not with insulting arrogance.

a reply to: Seede

I have a KJV and it says "children of Sheth."

Which I explained is the same thing as Shethites.

You are upset because you claimed you couldn't find any bible that says Shethites but I showed you 18 versions of the same passage all talking about sons of Sheth.

Maybe you didn't know that Shethite/Sethite and children/sons of Sheth/Seth all mean the same thing.

And you are complaining to me about the Shiloh prophecy because I interpreted for you.

Gee, sorry. Done ranting?

There are three possibilities:

The Sons of God who procreated with the sons of Adam/man are the sons of Seth. They lived atop Mt. Hermon and were told not to descend and live among the sons of Cain.

Seth was not created by Adam but was the seed of God and Cain was the seed of Adam. So Seth was half God.

When they interbred with Cain's seed it created the Nephilim and taught the children of Cain secret knowledge that was subsequently abused and man became so sinful that God saved only the line of Noah and their wives.

But the sons of Seth believed to have stayed at the top of Mt. Hermon and survived the flood and have lived all along next to Moab along the Dead Sea survived until the Romans made Catholicism the law. They left us the Nag Hammadi writings and the Qumran zealots hated them. They probably were not Christian until after 68 ad when they believed Seth was Christ in some writings.

Nag Hammadi "Gnostics" and their ancestors are the sons of Seth who probably had a connection with the Egyptian Seth as Hebrew and Egyptian sometimes have the same gods with different myths like the rest of the world.

Osiris is like the anti-Shem or anti-Abraham Nimrod. Shem is the evil one in Egypt.

This is the alternative to the account in Enoch where they become Angels and procreate with all humans except the line of Seth to Noah. This is the popular version that the churches don't like that makes us all Sons of Seth and the flood the fault of the heavenly beings that defied God and created an unlivable world for humans. The churches like to think it was mans sin that caused the flood and Enoch exonerates us. They also don't like dealing with the Giant story period because then they have to make up ways for the reappearance of the Giants of Canaan and they don't know how to do it.

My theory is the first story was the going story and the Shethites call themselves that to oppose the Semites and later the Mount Hermon story turned into the book of Enoch when the Israelites were introduced to angelology by the Persians and started to give ranks and names to them. The Sons of God became the Igrigori or Watchers who ended up imprisoned in Sheol or Tartarus until the end.

Then the sons of Seth became what the church called Gnostic although little was known about them prior to Nag Hammadi.