Hetero Admiration of the Same Gender

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

While I understand this as an intellectual truth, I can't relate to it.

When I physically "admire" somebody (anybody), it is almost always because I am attracted to them. That normally doesn't happen unless there is some sort of bond or chemistry (or they are brainy, gentle, and kind). But once it does, and I start admiring them physically, I'm totally down for getting to know them better.

Unfortunately, it makes platonic relationships difficult for me to compartmentalize in my head. Just so many beautiful souls out there, you know?

As far as "sizing up the competition", I don't really do that. At least, I don't think I do. It's challenging for me to think of people as "competition" when I might find them attractive.

Dang... this really has me thinking. Great thread.

a reply to: Abysha

No, I thought it was pretty common knowledge that women did look at other women and see their relative attractiveness.

Why else would they pick attractive models to sell us cosmetics and clothing and the like? We see the attractive women and perceive how attractive we would be with product X too. We are responding to the attractiveness in a non-sexual way.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Okay, I've been thinking about this for a couple of days (thanks, Gus

). I posit that people of both genders and all sexual orientations "look at " and sometimes "admire" persons of the same gender. And doing so does not mean the person is gay.

If a woman looks at another woman, she will (typically) "evaluate" them - everything about their entire physical presence - and attach adjectives:

[she is] attractive, or pretty, or adorable, or beautiful, or fat, or ugly, or frumpy, or skinny ---------

Great thread, Buzzy! I think this also extends beyond simple physicality. Granted, I may be more attune to this sort of thing than others but do we not also judge or compare mannerisms, personality and the outward manifestations of internalized gender? Could perceptions of being masculine or feminine not also be things added to your adjective list or is it just me? Older, younger, smarter, richer or about the same are also evaluations we make about others.

To pretend that women don't look at other women and then compare and contrast themselves to that other woman is naive.

I agree with this completely. Women like looking at other women or else why would "women's" magazines be filled with pictures of women or why is there not more outrage about the objectification of women in advertising?

I met with a new doctor for the first time this week and found myself doing this kind evaluation/comparison as we sat and talked for twenty minutes. I think this "critical eye" is even more a factor when the others we measure ourselves against are more similar than when disparate or at least I think it makes us look more closely for the similarities or differences?

Beyond voice, tone and inflection, posture, mannerisms and body language, I was cognizant of comparing the physical. Was she taller, thinner, prettier, have nicer hair, prettier hands, bigger feet, nicer teeth, use cosmetics, wear jewellery and give off a feminine vibe, etc., etc.? I hardly thought about her competency as a doctor but did come away with the feeling she is someone I would like to get to know better and could bond with. In spite of being quite a bit younger than me, finding her contrasting attributes and similarities took a bit more scrutiny because we were alike enough she could have been my younger sister. I was going to say daughter but I'm not quite that old. These indeed are ways we manage/nurture our self-esteem, individuality, validity and acceptability because looking in the mirror or living in a vacuum can be deceptive.

She was cute and attractive. I checked her out thoroughly in ways I don't look at men with but it didn't mean I wanted to sleep with her or thought of her in that way. (Disclaimer: even though I have had relationships with other women and could imagine such things)

Again, it's hard to tell if it isn't maybe just who I am, but don't we also make similar comparisons when we look at men, particularly when it comes to physicality and at the things we find different? That's kind of what drives heterosexuality for me because men are so foreign and strange on multiple levels in ways that are somewhat exotic and stimulating and in ways that are different from my feelings about or attraction to other women (which sometimes get mixed up with envy or jealously or emotional compatibility- it's complicated).

Yeah, humans are odd. Sometimes I think I'm leader of the pack on that? Indeed, very thought provoking.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Some just buckle under the idea of competition.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

People are beautiful - and sexy sells

Women don't buy women's magazines just for the latest fashions or makeup tips :-)

Really interesting topic - but only for the grownups. Apparently

a reply to: ketsuko

I was shocked in my marriage . . . to learn that

Women bother with make-up and a lot of other stuff . . . primarily to face other women with.

Most men I know don't like the feel of make-up on a woman. It feels too much like margarine. LOL.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
There was a thread about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and their adorable babies - and a member took my admiration of Kate to be a lesbian attraction.

I am proud to admit that it was me.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yeah! Where the hell have you been?!

So, folks - now that we've established that both men and women do, in fact, observe members of their own gender even when they are heterosexual -
anyone dare to list who (of any common household personalities) they admire?

Reldra and I have shared....
what about you men out there? What other man or men do you admire?

And you women? What females do you find easy on the eyes?

Or conversely, can't stand? There are actors and actresses that make my skin crawl even though they are quite famous and popular with others....
like most of those 3-names women - Sarah Jessica Parker, Jennifer Love Hewitt, and Mary-Louise Parker - can't stand any of them! LOL!!

Of men, the creep factor is strongest with James Caan and Christian Bale and Christian Slater. Christopher Walken used to creep me out, but not anymore - he's too funny!! And Jack Nicholson. *shrug* Just ick.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Yeah! Where the hell have you been?!

Friday night was pizza and Negroni night so I was killing it like an OG.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
what about you men out there? What other man or men do you admire?

If it's just a looks thing that guy who played Alcide in True Blood, Joe Manganiello is someone I would trade places with. On a purely stylistic level I was always a fan of Gianni Versace.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Wow, yeah, both very tasty indeed!!

You know who I think is a lovely woman? The Duchess of Cambridge, Kate Middleton.

a reply to: Freija

Granted, I may be more attune to this sort of thing than others

I seem to be very tuned into it also - why do you say "Granted", though? Why qualify it like that, I'm just wondering if you had a profound experience or something like ultrasensivity....do you think most of us have it, and only some know how to use it? Or is it a "gift" or anomaly?

but do we not also judge or compare mannerisms, personality and the outward manifestations of internalized gender?

I know I do -

but I know people who, when I try to talk about that stuff, just give me a blank look - some have no concept of the subtleties of nuance, body language, tone, etc. I've wondered if it's an Asperger's spectrum thing -- almost like deliberate refusal to notice.

I don't know how people can honestly and unintentionally seriously miss those cues, but apparently they do! Baffles me.

Fun to think about, though - when we focus on how we, ourselves, are the only ones in the universe looking out from our eyes. No other human lives the same life. It's a very profound kind of tangent...that I apparently just went off on......

lol!!!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
I seem to be very tuned into it also - why do you say "Granted", though? Why qualify it like that, I'm just wondering if you had a profound experience or something like ultrasensivity....do you think most of us have it, and only some know how to use it? Or is it a "gift" or anomaly?

I said "granted" in a sentence mentioning gender because I acknowledge my perceptions may be lensed by childhood and early adolescent memories of being told by everything in the world around me I was doing it completely wrong. Sort of makes you hyper sensitive as a little kid when you are expected to fake it or pretend to be a gender you are innately not and getting that all sorted out growing up was kind of a profound experience in a way that most will never understand and why I thought qualifying my observations or offering a caveat might be appropriate?

As to whether this is a "gift", a curse or a blessing I've never really figured out probably because I don't care but most consider that I am an anomaly and I don't really disagree with that although I think I'm pretty average. Having traversed the outward expression of gender across most of the entire spectrum at some point as a child and teenager and also having been both anatomical sexes does give me somewhat of a unique vantage point but whether that gives me some special superpower or insight into the gendered expressions and behaviors of others, I can't say. It might so I thought I'd mention it.

--- but do we not also judge or compare mannerisms, personality and the outward manifestations of internalized gender? ---

I know I do -

but I know people who, when I try to talk about that stuff, just give me a blank look - some have no concept of the subtleties of nuance, body language, tone, etc. I've wondered if it's an Asperger's spectrum thing -- almost like deliberate refusal to notice.

I don't know how people can honestly and unintentionally seriously miss those cues, but apparently they do! Baffles me.

I don't think it is a deliberate refusal to notice but something most people just blank out to or simply fail to acknowledge they recognize because for a lot of folks these are subconscious processes or possibly even repression of the fact that all people are a mix of both genders and the learned appropriate performance of such has become so ingrained to be below the threshold of awareness of their own behaviors or in those of others unless something atypical stands out. Some are simply blind!

Fun to think about, though - when we focus on how we, ourselves, are the only ones in the universe looking out from our eyes. No other human lives the same life. It's a very profound kind of tangent...that I apparently just went off on......

Umm, yeah. Sorry to drift your thread toward the philosophical or into esoteric conceptualizations when all you wanted to know if looking at other women you thought were hot was gay or not. It isn't in spite of what the Roman says!

LOL for sure!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Denzel Washington. If i could smile and make the world shine like Denzel could....I dig his presence in general, but he has a fantastic smile.

a reply to: Freija

Okay. Thanks for expounding - I'm totally cool with the philosophical angle. It's what fascinates me the most.

I just wasn't (and am not) aware of your background.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Is he not the AWESOMEST???? Wow. Talk about coolio hot guy.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

OMG. I would jump Denzel in a heartbeat......*bites bottom lip*

a reply to: Freija

Wow, this is an amazing post. Thank you so much for sharing your history.....
did you ever know JadeStar on here?

Umm, yeah. Sorry to drift your thread toward the philosophical or into esoteric conceptualizations when all you wanted to know if looking at other women you thought were hot was gay or not. It isn't in spite of what the Roman says!

LOL for sure!

What are you talking about? This is exactly the kind of conversation I wanted to have - we are all thinking outside of the box, and stating our cases, and I think that's ultimately very cool.

(Oh, and incidentally, and On-Topic, I think your 'avy/background' is awesome.

I thought about yours when I made my current one - LOL!!!

Truth.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
I just wasn't (and am not) aware of your background.

Oh.

Not to clog up your thread with OT crap but a couple posts might fill in some of that if you're interested. I figured it was common knowledge at this point. There's one here and a few more in that thread. I hadn't really intended to talk about this but if you read Domo1's post a few above this one I made, you'll see why I now am. There's a follow up post in that same thread with a few more tidbits. There's even a half pic of me on pg 339 of the member's photo thread.

PS
Yes, Jade is my friend and kindred spirit!