The emasculation of the modern male

a reply to: 8675309jenny

In the 90's we would go out to the "clubs" with all the guys from our village and more often than not there would be fighting with guys from other villages. There were longlasting feuds between villages and nearly everybody would fight in a big brawl and it was awesome and there was no calling the cops. Noone ever really got hurt bad and over time it was forgotten and you ended up having some beers with the guys you fought before.

Good times. Things changed though.

originally posted by: Substracto
a reply to: SprocketUK

reading that just made me more sure, that criminals and abusers are the new kings, that serious people are nothing but sheep to them and a justice that should be blind and protective of the abused. I'm with that father, even he was mistreated by the bullie's parents...

It can seem like that I suppose.
I consider myself normal but I've never felt intimidated by crims etc.
They aren't kings by any stretch, though they probably feel a little freer than the average joe because they don't have the fear of the consequences like most people.

Though most people is about it, there are still lots of folks out there who have it figured out and understand the balance between what they need to do and what society expects them to do. Speaking for myself, I probably wouldn't have hassled the kids, I'd have sorted things out with their parents...Only if that failed would I have taken the other approach.

No. One wrong blow can kill. Even in a seemingly harmless fist fight.

The more sensitive ANY person becomes is just progression. Although it might not seem it, the general public is a peaceful place. Much more than it once was. Sure/ the world still has it's bad people. But as a species, we are a lot more civilised and accepting then we used to be.

Self defence is necessary of course. But that's not about aggression. That's just defence. And you hope to never use it.

And if that means not being "manly" then I'm all for it. It's all just social stereotypes anyway. PEOPLE regardless of gender should aim to be more sensitive and caring. And forget about being what you are expected to be by society.

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
No. One wrong blow can kill. Even in a seemingly harmless fist fight.

The more sensitive ANY person becomes is just progression. Although it might not seem it, the general public is a peaceful place. Much more than it once was. Sure/ the world still has it's bad people. But as a species, we are a lot more civilised and accepting then we used to be.

Self defence is necessary of course. But that's not about aggression. That's just defence. And you hope to never use it.

And if that means not being "manly" then I'm all for it. It's all just social stereotypes anyway. PEOPLE regardless of gender should aim to be more sensitive and caring. And forget about being what you are expected to be by society.

Rather than seeing masculinity as being intrinsically linked with violence, wouldn't it be more accurate to say it is the absence of the fear of a confrontation turning violent...

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
No. One wrong blow can kill. Even in a seemingly harmless fist fight.

The more sensitive ANY person becomes is just progression. Although it might not seem it, the general public is a peaceful place. Much more than it once was. Sure/ the world still has it's bad people. But as a species, we are a lot more civilised and accepting then we used to be.

Self defence is necessary of course. But that's not about aggression. That's just defence. And you hope to never use it.

And if that means not being "manly" then I'm all for it. It's all just social stereotypes anyway. PEOPLE regardless of gender should aim to be more sensitive and caring. And forget about being what you are expected to be by society.

Rather than seeing masculinity as being intrinsically linked with violence, wouldn't it be more accurate to say it is the absence of the fear of a confrontation turning violent...

I was mainly referring to this from the OP.

"I think its part of being a man to get this violent aggression out of your system especially in your early 20's "

I just see violence as backward.

a reply to: MrConspiracy
It certainly shouldn't be anyone's default response, I agree.

I don't thin it's something to shy away from either. We all need our arses kicking from time to time

a reply to: MrConspiracy

I think the wisest way to look at violence, is to deny its necessity as a tool to advance or edify ones ego, but to accept that in a world beset by madness, that even a peaceful man may, though he would not wish it, have to be prepared to encounter violence and respond to it physically.

I never leave the house thinking "Today will be a day for the shedding of blood, the breaking of bones, the crushing of my enemies, a day to bathe myself in the mortal essence of living things!". But at the same time, I never leave the house unprepared for what I may encounter, in spite of my every noble intention.

a reply to: TrueBrit




"Today will be a day for the shedding of blood, the breaking of bones, the crushing of my enemies, a day to bathe myself in the mortal essence of living things!".


Quote of the day, right there :-) That may or may not be me when I sod off to Waitrose later.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Waitrose eh? Shopping may be an imposition for some of us, and I can well understand the taking of such a position. But remember, anywhere that sells a quality venison burger is worth queuing in!

Theres this jackass idea of a thing called street cred that respect has to be earned instead of freely given... its part of gang mentality, and well we all know gangs and streets have become a war zone from the war on drugs just like the rise of the mobsters in the war on alcohol... pushing moral belief into the streets for some unrealistic utopian ideal, instead of accepting reality and making it where it actually functions in society with ethics like many other countries have for example...

but nope gotta demonize it declare war on it all because we are taught its wrong so dont even try to understand it just say no and lie to your kids. That was the 80s suggestion to parents in te just say no war on drugs... even if you have experience? lie to your kids and that was te moral and right thing? now profiling and war in the streets from all that fall out is still the right thing? Its deplorable... especially when we dont have to keep running these same stupid social experiements that other countries have successfully overcome... but oh no the people in those industries built around that experiement want to keep that going because why? Greed and profit even if it is a detriment to society...

Yeah no thanks... Im sure most citizens would prefer the sane rational approach over the chaos and disorder just so some industries can keep making profits off of the created misery from those failed experiements still being perpetuated.

The world has been trying to settle differences with violence since about day. Given the world today, it doesn't seem like it works well. I doubt it will change in the next few decades. We will continue with wars and violence because some people believe it is a solution.

a reply to: TrueBrit Absolutely. They also sell Shepherd's Neame double stout which is my real reason for going, rather than the bag of Carnaroli rice I told SWMBO we needed.

a reply to: onequestion

Let's take for instance a community of poor people. Kids are taught violence is wrong their entire life but in these same communities we have the biggest problems of violence.

I agree with letting men be men and releasing some of that testosterone during their 20's . However, having grown up in a poor community I can tell you that we were taught that violence WAS how you dealt with issues. Although, I was also taught to never start anything, but was expected to stand up for myself even with a bigger opponent.

It was not uncommon to hear family members tell their kid if they came back beat up to than take a bat and go back to take vengeance. Eventually that evolved to gun.

I can also tell you that a big problem in these poor communities is ignorance, culture, mental issues and survival of the fittest.

While teaching Martial Arts would be helpful to some in building respect and self esteem their are many many other issues at hand as well.

This is what sports are for. If you're too dense or antisocial to deal with your aggressive tendencies by resorting to fist fighting not out of necessity, then you're just not all there in the head. There's plenty of outlets for people to catch a release. Fist fighting is primitive. I would only do that when myself or someone I loved was under threat of danger.

I've always had the gift of gab and resourcefulness to work out whatever issues arise. I count the fights I've been in on one hand. Not fighting regularly didn't cause me to be emasculated or lose out on any opportunities in life. If it came down to it I have a bit of a psycho switch that gets activated when all else fails, I'm just too wise to let that out without exhausting all other options first.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Heh...

Now THATS a good reason to visit a superstore! Good on you!

I have to agree with the OP. Let boys be boys. To some extent.
I didn't get in many fist fights when younger, but a few.

I don't now of course.

(Though any fight now, I'm going to assume it's to the death, so there's that..)

My feeling is we are evolving beyond violence. We are at the cusp of that evolution, and the ideas of folks like the OP are looking "backwards" a previous poster in this thread put it. In previous epochs women chose mates based on the ability to protect and provide, men chose mates based on the ability to procreate and nurture. That's almost true even up through the 1950s. However, the computer age has also ushered in the "Age of the Nerd" and being about to provide and protect has nothing to do with physical strength any more. It's a smart man's world now, not a strong man's world. I see young and attractive men and women wearing Marvel t-shirts and obsessing over TV shows about dragons or time-travel. The nerds have inherited the world, and they didn't need to fight to do it. Now... if we could only have a similar intellectual takeover of our politics, that would be awesome!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: SprocketUK

Heh...

Now THATS a good reason to visit a superstore! Good on you!

It was well worth the trip

originally posted by: primespickle
Well, I am so sorry that you men find life so hard because you can't be destructive and primitive willy nilly.

What ever happened with the idea wanting to EVOLVE as a species? Why do you prefer to act like cavemen? What ever happened to progress?

The violence you wish to have doesn't start and stop with men. It will and DOES become violence against women.

How many times have you felt terribly afraid when doing something SIMPLE like walking down the street or sitting on a train? Probably never, right? No, you have your big strong man muscles, after all.

Why do we prevent bears and lions from roaming the streets? Because they are harmful to others. Men should not strive to harm others like viscous animals, and they shouldn't feel bad about being prevented from doing so either.

Men need to learn how to understand their emotions more fully. Violence and anger are almost never the solution to problems. Anger is usually an emotion that is confused with other emotions, and violence is a result of this misinterpretation. Men need to learn to cry. There is really nothing wrong with crying. Honestly, crying feels good and doesn't hurt a fly. Win, f--king, win. Oh, but I am sure you find eyes leaking fluid to be oh so offensive and emasculating.

Anti-woman threads are way too common here. FYI, feminism is basically dead. The "waves" are receding and believe it or not, things have gotten much worse for women over the past few years. Example, abortion. After decades, no one will just let it go.

But so sorry that you feel you can't be who you "naturally" are. I wonder what it is like to be so oppressed? Oh wait....

I am 31. I was went to school in rural Pennsylvania, and honestly was allowed to be "masculine". However things are changing,

As an adult, I am not too concerned with what people think of me. I have no problem with criticizing how adults act, they should be able to handle it. The problem I have with your callous response here is that it overlooks what is happening to young boys, particularly in schools.

Here is a short video about some of the problems, but there is much more research out there showing just how bad boys have it in schools.

www.youtube.com...

In short, boys are treated like defective girls. They are not allowed to have interests in things like action, because it can lead to violence. They are punished for acting how they were biologically made, and being emasculated and indoctrinated from an early age. As a result, boys are doing poorer and poorer in school, and many of the ones that do make it to higher education come in with a bias against traditional masculinity. Those that don't conform are now being medicated at unbelievable numbers, being turned into pharmacutical ridden zombies, all for acting what would have been considered normal 30 years ago.

But these boys deserve this, right? I mean, we don't want bears roaming the streets.

a reply to: Grambler

When I was a lad, I hated everything about school. I hated it, because there were psychopaths, not just boys being boys, but vindictive, aggressive, and astoundingly violent bastards in my classes. I liked normal boy stuff. I loved being outdoors, even though I was asthmatic, I loved nature, frogs, slugs, ponds full of huge assortments of bugs and other wildlife, I loved going off and having adventures, learning by experience rather than by rote.

The only thing that ruined my experience of being a boy, other than having a totally useless father, was that every other boy I encountered, bar perhaps five others in my junior school, were out for blood and nothing else. The gang that formed at our primary school went on to cause untold havoc in our community for ten years after leaving primary school, from broken windows to ruined faces. They were scum, and I had more run ins with that bunch of ingrates than I care to name. Because of those total bags of puss, my whole gender and age group suffered an image crisis that you would not have wanted to be in the middle of for all the candy and soda a little fellow could guzzle.

Despite being a boy, and having male centred interests, my enjoyment of the arts, the classics, music that was not contemporary, writing poetry and short stories that encompassed all my interests, and a hunger for raw knowledge of science and the natural world, marked me out as being different to them. I was no more, or less of a boy than they were, I just had more strings on my bow, and that was a red flag for them, drew them toward me like a carrion eater to a corpse.

My knuckles and my face alike both got more abuse from my boyhood, than they ever have since I reached adult hood, and I am not the sort to initiate violence, unless driven by circumstances which require a response to protect myself or someone else from harm.

While I ENTIRELY agree with your assessment and was relieved to see the video you posted, I must also point out that in my country, being a boy with a mind, rather than a knuckle dragging progeny of filth with only fists and feet to communicate with, is far more difficult than to be one of the crowd. Spending ones formative years being dragged down to the level of the slime you are surrounded by, is LETHAL to a young mans development, no matter how hale or hearty that young man might be.