Abortion doctors would lose medical licenses under new Oklahoma bill

a reply to: windword

LOL...okay.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

It was, however, the choice of the mother and father to procreate.

Sexual intercourse isn't a contract for procreation. Even nature agrees, having created a constant need for affection and physical love, but only providing fertility for a few days a month. Nature, quite the trickster!

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
First off, I wasn't referencing any of my friends in that situation, I've just seen some news stories over the years about guys to whom this happened, so I know it's out there.

Secondly, it is astounding that you can jump to implications of controlling, abusive, manipulative men just because their wife might opt to kill their developing child without telling them first. Funny how it's apparently okay for a woman to do that...at least, that's what seems to be implied by you suddenly making the woman be the victim in that situation. Yes...it's all the guy's fault, and the woman did it out of spite...sheesh, are you hearing yourself?

I'm just saying when a man is complaining that his partner has an abortion without getting his consent...you may want to consider WHY the woman would do that. I had a friend who ended up having an abortion because after dating a guy for 8 months he 'accidentally' got her pregnant on purpose then flipped pyscho. She was going to give the baby up for adoption even, until the 'loving father' threatened to stalk her. She was like a rat trapped in a corner. And this would have been a guy to complain that she chose to abort.

"Sorry, apathy isn't my strong suit" Obviously.

So you would rather I just don't care about this issue at all? Seriously? Are you sure that you read the word "apathy" correctly, and aren't thinking that I meant empathy or sympathy?

My bad. You said 'apathy' I read 'empathy'.

For starters, faith has nothing to do with my decisions, as I am an atheist. We can play what-ifs all day, but that will get us nowhere, because they are just hypotheticals and nothing more. But, I certainly support a state's right to tell someone that they can't kill off a developing human being just because it might be an 'unwanted mistake' at that point in their life.

To me, a human being is a living creature that has human DNA and is created by a human egg and sperm coming together in some way and creating a unique individual. The simple fact that nature has dictated that said human must exist inside of the female of the species for about nine months while developing and be attached via an umbilical chord during its tenure in the womb is irrelevant to it being a unique, individual human being.

When someone has a human being killed, I take offense to that--whether or not they want to assert their "right to privacy" as a piss poor excuse to be left alone in this killing is inconsequential to me. So, sure, I guess that you can say that I have a moral objection to it, but I feel that not killing our unborn humans just because we can is a pretty good societal goal.

In any event, what you and others who hold a similar view fail to concede is that a fetus is its OWN BODY, not the property of the mother just because it has no choice but to develop inside of her. Abortion isn't about what a woman does with her own body, it's about what they do to another human being.

Sorry to assume you're Christian. It's rare to see an anti-abortion atheist. But whatevs. Your opinion is still that- an opinion. And your beliefs are just that- beliefs. I'm currently 7 months pregnant and trust me this is MY body being abused. This is MY life being affected and forever changed. Now personally, I not only chose to bear this burden, I actively made it happen. But no one should be forced to go through this crap. When you take away a woman's right to choose abortion, you take away HER bodily autonomy.

I totally get why anti-abortion folks BELIEVE it's murder. And it's real noble and all to want to save all these hypothetical babies from murder. But that's where it needs to stop. Your beliefs should not dictate what someone else does with their own body. And damn sure not the government. If there's one thing on this earth that an individual should have control over, it's their own body.

Maybe we should treat abortion (since people claim it's a "right") like concealed carry of a weapon--make the woman take classes and then apply and pay for a license through their county or state government in order to exercise this right. I mean, both have the potential to kill a human being, right?

They already do this crap. Waiting periods. Being forced to listen to literature and descriptions of the process. Being forced to have an ultrasound. If the decision is made, then it's made. This is just stalling.

I personally feel like an elective abortion is tantamount to premeditated murder--or at the very least, it's hiring a hitman to take out a family member.

Jeez Louise. A hitman? Really?
This:

Is not this:

It may be eventually, but A LOT has to happen in between.

* Actually it never will be because that is a horse fetus. You can't even tell the difference at that stage.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
It was heartfelt. I realize there are extenuating circumstances in everyone's lives. I primarily have a spiritual metsphysical approach and come from tge premise of reincarnation and from that vantage point as most priests and doctors freely admit the new life begins at conception and the soul begins to
Mesh with the developing fetus therefore when people insist the baby isn't really viable and therefore subject to
Arbitrary elimination based on convenience of the parents they are doing so out of lack of awareness and our society teetering on the brink of self destructive secularism promotes that lifestyle snd is now indoctrinating millions if people to accept that secular scientific materialism. So that is where I come from and in terms of spiritual cosmic law the woman and her doctor will reap the karma. It is a huge disservice tonthe soul to promote such temporary and materialistic solutions to deep problems.

Abortion is touted as a woman’s choice, but according to one study, 64% of women feel pressured into abortion by their partners. Men may pressure their partners into having abortions because they do not want a child and do not want to pay child support.

A common way that men influence women to have abortions is by threatening to leave them. Sometimes a woman is so emotionally dependent on her partner that she is willing to sacrifice her baby in order to keep his “love.” Other times, the threat of physical violence or financial dependence is a factor. But, unsurprisingly, these efforts to keep the relationship intact often fail. Many times, the man will leave the woman anyway, or resentment and regret about the abortion will drive the couple apart.

www.nationalrighttolifenews.org...

so, while women are being caste as being selfish murderers, if I am reading this right, over half the fathers are pressuring their partners to abort???

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Another angle you may consider- if you believe in fate, or even entertain the possibility of it- is that the situation arises for a reason. The woman coming together with the man, the unintended pregnancy- or intended pregnancy with problems, the reactions of all involved. Abortion doctors aren't going through medical school going "Boy I'd sure like to get out of here so I can kill me some babies!" They really are helping women out of some really dire straights. All these paths cross.

I don't believe karma is so much of a crime and punishment thing, but rather existence itself is a learning experience. There is such thing as perpetual motion- it's called opposition. The world/universe needs dynamics to continue. And energy from these highly emotionally charged situations help fuel that.

Some women regret having an abortion. Then they love their subsequent children that much more. Some women don't regret it at all and use it as an opportunity to get their lives in better shape so that when they do DECIDE to have children they are thoroughly prepared. Maybe some men- after their partner has had an abortion- actually do some self reflection and maybe, hopefully come out the other side a better person.

I know one girl in high school, got knocked up, guy was a total dick about it. "I don't care about you or the baby, you can both die for all I care. I'm going to do everything possible not to pay child support." He was even physically abusive. Being in high school, with no job experience, no money and no place to live other than her parents she felt she didn't have much other choice and had an abortion. A full year later he called her out of the blue and apologized. 'Bad' things happen so that we can learn from them.

a reply to: dawnstar

Here's a list of the girls I've known over the years who chose abortion:
1. high school girl- tells 'daddy' and he physically abuses her, swears he's going to do everything in his power NOT to help her, her and the baby can both die for all he cares
2. rape
3. drug addiction/promiscuous behavior- but this girl had a history of horrendous abuse- somehow miraculously she overcame it and ended up happily married with 4 kids
4. guy 'accidentally' (on purpose) knocks girl up then flips psycho. Was talking about marriage, then suddenly it's "I'm not going to marry YOU." Immediately tries to get out of financial responsibility. She intended to give the baby up for adoption and even knew a couple with fertility problems but 'daddy' refused to sign off on it and threatened to stalk her.
5. Inviable pregnancy- twins even. Girl had to wait a week for the procedure, was in so much emotional distress the doc basically had to tranquilize her

Yeah...but it's the woman- and the woman alone- that's the selfish murderer.

For the record, I also know one girl that kept the baby that was the result of a rape. I knew another girl that seemed like a horrible candidate for motherhood but kept it and rose to the occasion. And my best friend kept BOTH of her 'oops' babies but has not seen a dime of child support the entire time- a combined 17 years.

There is an infinite number of possibilities and one law will never cover them all. That's why individuals should be allowed to decide for themselves.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

it might explain why the MALE politicians are such utter failures at writing sane abortion regulations though..
they don't want to end abortions, that would end their ability to pay off their mistresses for getting the abortions in the first place, they just want to punish them for getting pregnant and making it necessary to pay them off!

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Maybe they should be given the opportunity to life, then, like we all had, because it wasn't their choice to be created.

Maybe they should just be set free 'cuz they're not wanted.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

My 4th month spontaneous abortion fetus looked very much like that when I pulled it out of the toilet and took it to the emergency room with me.

It was a potential human though - - not a potential horse.

a to: dawnstar everyone has responsibilty in this, even society as a whole. Where is the collective bee hive mentality when society reaps the karmic return?

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

That's exactly a lot of the problem. All sorts of people cry about abortion being murder and call for making it illegal but.... there's no resources to help women keep the baby if they want them, domestic violence and rape go largely unpunished, BILLIONS of dollars in child support are never collected.

Say a young, single woman accidentally gets pregnant, tells the 'loving father' who immediately disappears. There are lots of organizations and agencies that will help her through the pregnancy....so they can sell the baby for $30k a pop. But virtually nothing to support her if she wanted to keep it. Child care for an infant costs $200 per week. Food stamps don't buy diapers. Help with paying bills is pretty much a one time thing, nothing really in place to keep the help ongoing. If the guy sticks around but is abusive she can call and have him arrested, but then there goes his income while he's in jail and if she's financially dependent on him she is forced to get right back with him as soon as he's out.

You bring up a good point...where IS society? When people (women) are left to fend for themselves, don't get upset when they, well, fend for themselves.

a reply to: Annee

Yikes! What an awful experience.

Early in development embryos even have 3 chambered hearts and tails like reptiles. A far cry from this:

for sure.
Yeah, human DNA, but physiologically more like this:

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

actually, if he's abusive, he will probably spend a night in jail, and since he's the one paying the rent on the home, well, he's probably gonna show up in the morning, and let himself into his home. so, after he gets arrested, if she's afraid of retaliation she has to make herself homeless and start searching for space in a shelter somewhere.

a reply to: buster2010 funny thing... Supreme Court justice Ginsberg thought roe v wade was for getting rid of undesirables. sso.foxnews.com... bles
As for sacrifice of rights.....how about rights of the unborn or the rights of people not to have their taxes support abortion of how about the state forcing people to purchase health ins which covers abortion...... There are all kinds of ways to look at rights.

a reply to: dawnstar

I was homeless for about 3 weeks with my baby daughter, not because of an abusive relationship but because I was waiting on disability. Homeless shelters (if you can even find one that's not straight up disgusting) will only let you stay for 2 weeks at a time. There is no long term places anywhere. And very few that are safe for children.

As far a prosecuting abusive guys: as LE I took a report from a girl (who had a baby with the guy) he beat her up and pushed her face down onto a hot stove. A year later when it was going to trial she wanted to drop charges because they had gotten back together.
Another woman was stabbed in the eye by her man because she took too long coming back from the store. By the time it finally went to trial they couldn't find her so they were trying to prosecute without the victim, which is almost impossible.

From the outside it's really easy to say 'Why don't you just leave him?' But it's sooooo much more complicated than that. A lot of times the woman who called the cops in the first place is the same one bailing the abusive d-bag out. And even if they're serious about prosecuting and leaving him, he's still out on bail within a week and trial doesn't happen for another 1-2 years.

C'est la vie.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Also agencies don't make it too easy to
Adopt.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

the rights of the fetus should never trump the right of the mother to life and health... this law really doesn't protect the health of the mother, so it fails miserably.
and, the federal gov't does not pay for "convenience" abortions, there are some exemptions, yes, but quite frankly, if there is a valid health reason for an abortion and you object that your tax money is paying for it, then well, so what, I kind of object to the taxmoney being used to provide the crappy care some pregnant women are receiving in the catholic hospital system also!
and as far as insurance goes.... most of us don't have much of a say about just what is included in our health insurance policy and as far as I know, the gov't has no mandate that insurance companies cover abortion, except like I said, maybe those few exceptions. unless you are putting some forms of birth control into the mix?
there is no reason why insurance should treat birth control differently than any other health need out there.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: Annee

Yikes! What an awful experience.

I've had plenty of experience on this subject.

My opinions aren't based on any self-righteous belief or dictating to others.

After the spontaneous abortion (I was 21) they put me in with the birth mothers, because the hospital was under construction and it was the only bed available.

My oldest grandson is a miracle baby. That daughter was told she had a medical problem that prevented her from getting pregnant. She had one last "hoorah" with the sperm donor she broke up with. She only had a period about twice a year, was a little over weight, and didn't find out she was pregnant until 5 months. The doctor told her she had to sew him in or abort him. She spent the next 2 months flat on her back in bed. He came at 7 months, weighing 3 pounds. No health issues. His sperm donor chose drugs over him. He was raised by a loving "village". He's such a great man today at 22 years.

I have other stories.

a reply to: dawnstar

Society in general is not responsible for women having babies. I am not a big fan of Statist Big Government solutions. That seems to be where we are headed in every direction. What you seem to be suggesting is that if we deny doctors the right to end the lives of the unborn we must make it a socialist law that also makes society responsible for the care of such babies which was not entirely what I meant. Society will pay the karmic price either way.