Abortion doctors would lose medical licenses under new Oklahoma bill

a reply to: Phage

Phage you usually use strong arguments when discussing your points, but this one is missing the point.

The argument is not whether a medical procedure is necessary (cosmetic surgery in cases), but the fact that a good amount of abortions are used just as a convenience for the mother.

The issue with that is that you are ending the life of the baby because the mother does not want care for him/her.

I don't agree with pushing legislation on anything (that means you, gun control folks). If we want to make a change in this country we need to change the way abortion is looked at.

The government too often takes an us vs. them approach.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

why thirteen years old, why not make it a ten year old carrying twins, and why have it just a screw up with the birth control, why not make it sexual abuse??

A 10-year-old girl who is pregnant with twins after she was raped by a neighbour has been forced to continue with her pregnancy after human rights campaigners lost their fight to secure a legal route to abortion.

The plight of the girl, who is understood to be five months pregnant and lives in southern Senegal, highlights the heavy cost women and children are paying for a Napoleonic law on abortion that is still in force in the former French colony.

"She is going to have to go through with the pregnancy," said Fatou Kiné Camara, president of the Senegalese women lawyers' association. "The best we can do is keep up pressure on the authorities to ensure the girl gets regular scans and free medical care.

www.theguardian.com...

or heck, let's make it nine years old, twins, and incest!!

The controversy represents a PR nightmare for the Vatican. The unnamed girl's mother and doctors were excommunicated for agreeing to Wednesday's emergency abortion yet the Church has not taken formal steps against the stepfather, who is in custody. Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious".

www.independent.co.uk...

ah yes, isn't it nice to know that the church sees trying to save a nine year old's life is more offensive to god than raping that poor girl and making her pregnant with twins is!!!

but oh, ya we are in america, aren't we, our healthcare is far superior than any other countries right? no women's lives are put in danger here, and this law will in no way endanger anyone's lives right??
not true!! it's already happening in this country, in many of the catholic hospitals who are already functioning under rules that are much like this law is...

abcnews.go.com...

and more instances:

Tamesha Means was one of those women. She was in the 18th week of pregnancy, happily awaiting the birth of her child, when her water broke. She rushed to the hospital, but unfortunately because of the bishops’ rules, the hospital didn’t tell Tamesha that the pregnancy was doomed and that the safest course was an abortion. The hospital sent her home — not once, but twice — while she was in excruciating pain and developing an infection. Only once she began to deliver during her third visit did the hospital start providing care.

And as researcher Lori Freedman has documented over and over again, Catholic hospitals have routinely delayed providing care, allowing pregnant women’s health to deteriorate. For example, one doctor described a patient in the middle of her pregnancy who was miscarrying. She was bleeding so much that the whites of her eyes filled with blood, and she developed a serious infection and a 106 degree fever. The only way to treat her was to terminate the pregnancy. The Catholic hospital wouldn’t allow the abortion, however, until the fetus had no heartbeat. The doctor said that the woman was “dying before our eyes.” The doctor provided unauthorized treatment to save her life, and then promptly quit his job. The woman survived but spent 10 days in intensive care.

www.aclu.org...

and more

crosscut.com...

www.patheos.com...

you tax money is being used to pay for this crappy healthcare that is putting women's health and lives at risk in this country!

a reply to: Teikiatsu

their is more of a health risk to the mother carrying the baby to term than there is in the abortion procedure???

a reply to: ArnoldNonymous

If we want to make a change in this country we need to change the way abortion is looked at.

Who is the "we" that is going to change the way the other "we" look at abortion, and what is the way "we" should be looking at abortion?

The only thing "broken" about the abortion laws are those laws that are enacted to deny women their right to choose a legal, safe abortion, making abortions nearly impossible for poor women to obtain, and that ensure that women of means can always find access.

a reply to: windword

they'd be better off trying to change the way society looks at motherhood...
fathers work hard to support their families, but well, a stay at home mom it seems is doing nothing but sitting on her arse watching crappy soap operas!
a father is more valuable in an employer's eyes because he is a symbol of dependability and stability...
a mother loses value in the workplace, being seen as less dependable and stable.
a baby can be seen as either a curse, or a blessing.... and many in this society seem to work hard at making sure it's a curse. some countries are actually bribing their women to have babies, with what probably amounts to a full year of income, what do women in the US get? fathers are allowed to run off, with many managing to avoid any child support payments for their kids, mothers lose their earning power because they are mothers and society treats them like leeches because there is no way one person can take care of the iittle ones and home, work and earn enough money to support that family, pay for the child care, and keep her sanity while doing it!

when I suggested that married women just deny their husband sex, the only response I got was yep, divorce works!!! ya.. that's a great answer!!!

originally posted by: buster2010

Tell you what when they make an artificial womb that can be implanted into a man so he can carry the baby if the woman doesn't want it till then a woman should have every right to do with their body as they please.

Until then?

I'd say your position could use a little refining.

a reply to: Bone75

and just what does passing this law, which does not protect the welfare of the mother do outside of getting all the religious right in an uproar when it gets shot down in the courts? let me guess we can spend the time up to the election listening to the republican candidate tell us just how important it is that we vote for him so that a conservative judge can fill that supreme court chair so there is a better chance of it allowing these stupid laws to be upheld???

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

It comes back to personal responsibility, doesn't it?

Yes, woman choosing to have abortion because she's not ready to take care of a kid.

Most responsible thing a woman can do.

You know I think that's most seriously messed up, right?

Why? It's completely honest.

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into this world.

Your premise requires people to believe that bringing a child into the world is a selfish act. I summarily refuse to accept that premise.

Refuse?

Just answer the question: Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

a reply to: dawnstar

I'm not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

originally posted by: Annee

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

If you're raped and wind up pregnant against your will, but have have the child anyway... that is a selfless act.

a reply to: Bone75

and if you are the mother of two boys and are hoping that the baby you are carrying will be the girl you've always wanted when the doctor tells you that there will be complications that will severely interfere with the care you give those two boys and you know that there is no one else to care for them except strangers...
well, then it just might be seen in the eyes of the women that giving up her dream of the girl is a selfless act!

so, you won't tell me just what will be achieved with this bill??

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

If you're raped and wind up pregnant against your will, but have have the child anyway... that is a selfless act.

Is it? Will that rapist have parental rights? Will that rapist pass on his genetic aberrations and mental illness, creating another rapist?

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Why is is only the woman's responsibility to avoid pregnancy, what about the man? Should not he also take some of that on his shoulders to avoid a woman getting pregnant?

And unfortunately, as it is being shown the way that sex education is being handled is pretty much becoming ineffective and inadequate. Too many try to enforce their morals onto children, and often find that it is not heeded or else it is ignored. And the evidence is present that such is becoming more and more the case when there are children born out of wedlock, or unwed mothers, or even teen age pregnancy. Far too often the blame is stuck on the mother, yet the legislatures, more often than not, are Republicans, and they tend to try to restrict birth control, making it harder for women to access such, as men tend not to want to use protection either and thus this problem starts up.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

If you're raped and wind up pregnant against your will, but have have the child anyway... that is a selfless act.

Selfless and unselfish don't mean the same thing.

Bringing a child into this world is about yourself.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

If you're raped and wind up pregnant against your will, but have have the child anyway... that is a selfless act.

Will that rapist have parental rights?

That actually did happen.

The rapist, in jail, sued to have visitation with the child - - - and won.

a reply to: BIGPoJo

Well the bill is pretty much wrapped up and lets just say, if you think it is bad, if this bill becomes law, it will be worse. You see here is the problem in a nut shell.

The part about the Abortions is down within the bill, and that in itself is bad, but there is one other part of this law that is damming to all women in the state of Ok. You see it states that any person who causes a woman to abort a child is guilty of a felony. That means now that if a woman is pregnant and miscarries, she can now be held by the state, until a medical review board, not her doctor, has determined the cause and why she miscarried. And if it turns out that she is at fault, say she is a diabetic and ends up miscarrying such cause her blood sugar was out of control at that time frame, she could be held guilty by this law for causing an abortion. In short it would remove the privacy of a woman and her doctor, and in own stroke of a pen restrict all birth control and the after morning pill.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

If you're raped and wind up pregnant against your will, but have have the child anyway... that is a selfless act.

Will that rapist have parental rights?

That actually did happen.

The rapist, in jail, sued to have visitation with the child - - - and won.

I know it happens.

Parental rights for rapists? You’d be surprised how cruel the law can be

Child custody rights for rapists? Most states have them

Teen Embroiled in Horrifying Joint Custody Battle With Her Rapist

originally posted by: Annee

Bringing a child into this world is about yourself.

That's a matter of perspective. Bringing a child into the world for no other reason than to propagate the species isn't selfish.

a reply to: Bone75

Of course it is! You think the world and its 8 billion plus people needs your little rug rat clones running around?



Nope! It's you who wants little clones of yourself running around.

a reply to: Bone75

you can't point to any one women who has had an abortion and say that it was a selfish reason behind it without having to delve into her personal information concerning the case. if you do, that you're perspective is quite biased!
this law, if it is passed and allowed to stand (which I highly doubt and also suspect that the people who voted for it knew it wouldn't), would endanger the women in oklahoma. it's that plain and simple!