Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
I just thought about something but wouldn't it be in a Rapist's best interest to be seen as manly as possible if by chance apprehended. I mean its pretty common knowledge how rapist's are treated while incarcerated. The idea of being thrown into jail dressed as a woman would be enough to deter most men from risking getting arrested like that I would think. Lest they meet...

side note: I bet that guy loves Jesus, America and his mom.

That is what is shown in the media but its not close to reality. American Me is the most realistic prison movie that I can think of but it still doesn't come close to reality. The thing is, at high security prisions, most of the inmates ARE sex offenders but they all pretend they are something else. Your crime is privileged information, more secure than your social security number. Especially if you are a rapist.

Ugh, I told myself I wouldn't reply when I started reading. Yet here I am, posting....

This bathroom argument is absolutely ridiculous. As many have said already, if someone is going to rape, peek or even loiter around a bathroom they are already breaking a law, so whats the point of this law? Honestly ask yourselves, does this add to the protection of anyone? This law doesn't matter, if some man is dressed like a woman enters the women's restroom, for the express purpose of taking advantage of this law, to rape, peek, loiter, the defense of being transgender isn't going to protect them, at least I sure hope it doesn't. Despite these laws against rape and other such behaviors, it still happens, heck even people getting put on the list for sex offenders because of public urination doesn't stop them. Proves that laws do not stop things from happening. However, what this law does, is cause XX women who look neutral or masculine to be discriminated again based on their looks alone, waste police time (taxes, your paper tools of exchange), and probably worst of all, it causes those trans people who are afraid of being arrested (and end up in a prison opposite of there identifying gender, leading to, well we all know what happens) or given a fine (trans people are already majorly economically disadvantaged as is, and that's before hormones/surgery cost) to have to go to the opposite bathroom of there identity.

This would be okay, I guess (if everyone in society had no problems with trans people, but then again we wouldn't be having this conversation if that were true), but trans people and especially trans people of color face an extremely high rate of violence for being themselves, the only hope trans people have to avoid violence is to get lucky enough to transition so as not to be suspect of being trans. So what supporters of these laws are doing, in their minds is preventing some amount of sexual assault, something that is already illegal, by forcing trans people to go into a bathroom of the opposite gender identity. Thus outing themselves to people they don't know in an attempt to explain why they are in the legally correct restroom. This would then lead to a potentially dangerous situation for the individual and I would bet a ton of money on assault against trans people going up if this is enforced. But we all know that forcing trans people having to take on more risk and burden (lets not even go into the emotional stress that comes from being trans in general, without having to out yourself to people you don't know and worrying about violence (sexual, physical, verbal)) is worth it if we prevent one, just one rape against a "normal" woman. But we would never know, can't prove a negative. I guess those strong trans people are going to have to shoulder this burden until the statistics of rape are shown to have not directly dropped in areas where this law is enforced, compared to other areas, for the good of society. Ugh, Something tells me, proof of this making no difference wouldn't get rid of the law, what got the law passed where emotionally driven people who ignored all the statistics. "Think of the children" you weren't suppose to sympathize with Helen Lovejoy. But hey this discussion is super important right, corruption doesn't hurt people, pointless wars don't either. I mean 10, or even 100, maybe even all of the trans people being ridiculed, threaten, attacked, raped, killed, or stressed to the point of depression and suicide, is worth saving one person. I mean we all already know trans people aren't actually people.

www.theguardian.com...
www.advocate.com...

More links

....even more links

This is coming from someone who is transgender (male to female), when I started hormones, I kept going to the males restroom until it got to the point where guys would tell me it's the males restroom. The thing about being trans is that most of us would rather avoid attention at all cost. I don't want to speak for all trans people, but in my opinion the less people looking at me, the less know I'm trans, not because I deceive for the sake of deceiving, I am forced to "deceive" because from my point of view the world is more violent towards people like me, luckily, despite not thinking so personally, people don't know I'm trans. Besides, I usually end up telling anyone that I feel comfortable around.

The argument about having to have surgery is socioeconomically discriminatory and borderline, uh torture?, punishing? idk what to call it. But the facts about it are, it's financially unrealistic for a group that is already marginalized and faces a extremely high poverty/homelessness rates, and most insurance don't cover it. It can cost anywhere from $15,000 to $25,000+, and in this case, you really get what you pay for. Side effects include, complete loss of sensation, inability to orgasm, infection, complete closure(leading to more surgery, $), if the hormones haven't already, sterility. So forcing someone to get this surgery so that they can avoid risk of having to go to opposite genders bathroom is blatantly wrong. I personally don't want the surgery unless I'm guaranteed to have full sensation eventually and complete reproductive function. Not to mention, it would then force the persons to have a reliance on hormone pills, because if they for whatever reason were unable to get any, it would lead to long term life threatening issues, such as osteoporosis, and cardiovascular disease. So unless the state is going to provide coverage of all the surgeries and the research required to meet everyone's standards, it is discriminatory. And seeing how these were republicans, I don't see social medicine, especially social medicine for trans people happening. Don't assume because I dislike republicans means I like democrats. It doesn't stop there, a good number of trans people would rather have "cosmetic" surgery before reassignment because it's something they have to see, their face or their chest, ever day, and it's what people see everyday, so to avoid people thinking they are trans facial surgery or chest surgery is often taken over reassignment. Makes sense, given that it's generally cheaper and not as dangerous. Besides someone who wasn't lucky in terms of appearing as who they are would still be questioned when they enter the bathroom (despite what's in their pants), and especially if cops were involved, it would lead to a scene that still ends in them having more unwanted attention on them.

Basically this law is written by a bunch of old stupid men who are probably racist and sexist, who want to pander and distract their base so they can keep their jobs, because we all know they don't have anything substantive, and beneficial to people to write on their resume. I'm happy to answer questions about most things. I won't be offended if it's something I'm uncomfortable answering.

To clarify, when I say trans I mean......"googles it"...... ugh so many different ways I hear it expressed, and despite being trans, hormones, minor "cosmetic" surgery, not downstairs, half the time I forget what the official things are. I've got better things to worry about like school, and getting into grad school. So I'll just define what I mean. I mean people who have undergone some form of medical steps, although my definition should also include other people because there are some people who completely identify as female ,as I do, but choose to not take medical steps. It's such a grey area that it's impossible to write a law without cutting someones p...... uhhhh I was going to type phalanges yeah totally.

Sorry for the joke, if there is a law the line would have to be drawn somewhere, and it should have at least included all forms of medical intervention. It takes months of therapy to get the okay the start hormones, that should be enough to deter even the most persistent rapist, peeping tom, etc. So they should change the law to allow people who have been taking hormones and living as their identity for X amount time to change their birth certificate. Probably still doesn't satisfy those who are afraid of predators at least one person is crazy enough to do it, right? Well if they did, first of all they would probably be suffering from gender identity issues if they weren't before (The shear amount of irony could alleviate all the world's people suffering from iron deficiencies, high quality, naturally formed by the immense stupidity of dumb terrible people), depending on how effective hormones were, and they would still be violating laws that already exist saying don't rape, or peep, or record people against their will etc.

Well using liberal logic on gun control, if it stops just one child from being hurt we need to eliminate them. This is what the left would say but this perversion is just another way to undermine civilized society so its a means to their end.

I doubt anyone of these whack jobs would just let a man in a dress stroll in behind their daughter walking into a bathroom. That would be a great social experiment to expose these hypocrites.

a reply to: RepealTheLaw

Yeah I'm completely okay with guns, the only thing I think we should is mental health screening with the background checks. Even then I'm unsure about that, I don't think that would help with the rate of gun deaths over all, but might stop a few mass shootings, and keep a large chunk of the left quiet. I know plenty of true progressives who are pro-gun, but then again I live in the south so that might have something to do with it. The neoliberals do whatever is politically expedient. Gun control isn't a huge issue for me, because it's simply unrealistic to go to the extreme. It probably just used as a distraction from the policies that both sides agree on that really hurt everyone. The only thing both parties have in common when it comes to guns is caring about whether or not you have one in your pocket.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: WeAre0ne

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Can you point to one single case of a rape or a molestation perpetrated in a public restroom by a transgender person, ever?

No? Could it be because it's a completely fabricated "threat" that was created for the purposes of fear mongering the ignorant masses? Yes.

Never say never. If that type of thing were documented and or trackable, I bet you there have been cases which you just claimed has never happened. Can you prove it hasn't happened?

By all means.

Let's go prove a negative, so we can justify this law.

That is not proving a negative wise guy. I guess you just love that argument so much you thought you can use it in every case. This is not one of them.

All the person would have to do is look into every rape or molestation case, and determine if it was perpetrated by a transgender person in a public restroom. If NONE of them were, then they would have proven that they were correct. So I was kindly asking if that person can do that, otherwise, they are stating unknown things as fact.

Proving a negative LOL... so foolish. Learn when to use that argument and when not to.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
I don't know why people are so scared and freaked out about transgender people. What do people really think they will do.

I've hung out with both the transgendered and gays and not once did it ever get weird. They respected me and I them and everything seemed to work out just fine. The conversation was normal. They've never once done anything creepy or untoward. At no point did one try to make any unsolicited advances or be inappropriate.

people are people and they come in a wide continuum of expression. In the end were all just humans.

Besides I'm comfortable enough with myself that I'm not bothered by anybody different standing next to me. I know what and who I am. So why do I care what or whom they are, just so long as they aren't hurting anybody else.

Seriously folks they're transgender humans, not xenomorphs looking to molest and inject you with their slimy goo.

Personally I feel it says a lot about a person when they can't be comfortable in the complexities of the real world. and like it or not the transgendered DO exist and they are part of the real world too. And, last time I checked, they seem pretty harmless and just want to live and let live. If people can't handle a transgender I'd hate to see what happens when they run into something actually scary like a spider or something. DO they freak out then too.

Personally I have had several male gay friends who I adore; I have gay relatives whom I adore; I have known one transgender person whom I adored - he used the men's room to avoid harassment. I don't think people are worried about Transgenders - I believe people are concerned that level 3s will start putting on wigs for access and then claim they feel pretty! Just sayin

originally posted by: WeAre0ne

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: WeAre0ne

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Can you point to one single case of a rape or a molestation perpetrated in a public restroom by a transgender person, ever?

No? Could it be because it's a completely fabricated "threat" that was created for the purposes of fear mongering the ignorant masses? Yes.

Never say never. If that type of thing were documented and or trackable, I bet you there have been cases which you just claimed has never happened. Can you prove it hasn't happened?

By all means.

Let's go prove a negative, so we can justify this law.

That is not proving a negative wise guy. I guess you just love that argument so much you thought you can use it in every case. This is not one of them.

All the person would have to do is look into every rape or molestation case, and determine if it was perpetrated by a transgender person in a public restroom. If NONE of them were, then they would have proven that they were correct. So I was kindly asking if that person can do that, otherwise, they are stating unknown things as fact.

Proving a negative LOL... so foolish. Learn when to use that argument and when not to.

With all the anti-LGBT people and Kim Davis's legal team behind most of these religious freedom bills --- you don't think that info would already be available?

You don't think that info would have already been presented as evidence in the lawsuits?

originally posted by: Annee
--- you don't think that info would already be available?

You don't think that info would have already been presented as evidence in the lawsuits?

No, I don't think that info is already available. Which is why I am calling this guy out on his claim. Although I know rape and molestation cases happen in public restrooms, I don't think there is a check box on the police report that says transgender or transvestite next to it, and so it is not documented.

So let me ask you a question...

You don't care if rapist or sex offenders pretend to be transgender or transvestite to legally get inside public restrooms of the opposite sex and do what they want?

originally posted by: WeAre0ne

originally posted by: Annee
--- you don't think that info would already be available?

You don't think that info would have already been presented as evidence in the lawsuits?

You don't care if rapist or sex offenders pretend to be transgender or transvestite to legally get inside public restrooms of the opposite sex and do what they want?

Should we bar them from elevators, parking garages, stairwells, grocery store parking lots, all night convenient stores, parks, etc.

The real fear is in the mind. Society created in their minds that restrooms are some kind of private sanctuary. They're not. They're use is for a bodily function we all have.

There are places around the world with unisex restrooms. The statistics you are looking for don't exist.

Those with unrealistic fears need to get over themselves.

a reply to: Profusion

This concept is so dumb I logged back in for the first time in a year or more.

How the hell would this endanger women? If a rapist wants to rape a woman in the bathroom he is just going to go and hide in the bathroom and do it. He doesn't need to dress up, actually it would be a hell of a lot easier to catch him if he did.
You don't have to wear a dress to walk into a womans.bathroom and you sure as hell dont have to go on hormones and get a boob job.

I guess you think gun free zones stop mass shlotings. Now keeping trans out of certain bathrooms magically stops rapists from going in them to rape.

Ludicrous.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

See my above post as it applies to you too, and probably many others here.

It's absurd to think refusing to let a trans person use the Bathroom of choice puts magic locks on the bathrooms that keeps out rapists.


These are both male to female transgender women. Tell me, honestly, are they more likely to sexually assault if you let them go to.the.womens bathroom, OR be sexually assaulted because.people like you forced.them to go to the mens room?



You guys are worse than the people that.think no guns allowed signs stop gun crimes.

a reply to: Annee

So all around the world, what was the point of having a male bathroom and a female bathroom separate? Please enlighten me.

a reply to: Annee

Just FYI, bathrooms are meant to be private. That is why there are stalls in woman's bathrooms in the US. It is where females have to get half naked in order to do their business, hence why they need privacy. Men have stalls too, because they too need to get half naked to go #2.

It is a very vulnerable position to be in, with your pants around your ankles, half naked, sitting on a toilet. I know it has been used by sex offenders thousands of times to catch victims off guard, just busting down the door.

Lets just mix the bathrooms and call it a day. Right?

I can't believe this is being argued about... go to the gender bathroom that matches your sex at birth. End of story. If you are stupid enough to get a sex change, that is your problem.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Profusion

Here's a news flash for you. Transgender people are using restrooms right now just as they have been. Can you point to one single case of a rape or a molestation perpetrated in a public restroom by a transgender person, ever?

No? Could it be because it's a completely fabricated "threat" that was created for the purposes of fear mongering the ignorant masses? Yes.

So you are saying there is no chance a pedophile could dress up like a woman, and grab a little girl in a bathroom? Absolutely no chance of this happening?

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Tell me, honestly, are they more likely to sexually assault if you let them go to the womens bathroom, OR be sexually assaulted because people like you forced them to go to the mens room?

So you agree that sexual assault is likely to happen in the bathroom huh? So lets let fake transvestite sex offenders into the girls bathrooms and see what happens. Is that your logic?

dp

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: Annee

Just FYI, bathrooms are meant to be private.

If men were gonna go through the trouble of dressing like women to gain access to women's restroom - - - wouldn't you assume they already have?

But, making this an issue because of transgenders? Ridiculous. Transgenders do not want to be outed, they want to be inclusive.

There is and will be complaints from Butch Lesbians being accosted, questioned, and thrown out of restrooms. That's what this is going to lead to.

Women who look manly (born with vagina) are the ones who are going to be the targets of this witch hunt.

originally posted by: Annee
If men were gonna go through the trouble of dressing like women to gain access to women's restroom - - - wouldn't you assume they already have?

I am certain this has already happened and does happen. You want to make it legal??

originally posted by: Annee
But, making this an issue because of transgenders? Ridiculous. Transgenders do not want to be outed, they want to be inclusive.

They are freaks of nature. They've outed themselves willingly.

I don't understand how anyone cares about uni-sex bathrooms, EVERYONE has one in their own home.