All Religion Is Fake and While We Are At It

a reply to: dr1234

People hurt people. Some use religion to that end.

People are f___ed up. That’s why we have religion. It doesn't work because humans are corrupted.

Religion has helped people.

I know ex-killers, drug dealers, pimps, criminals who were changed by religion

You can’t just dismiss that.

On the other hand there has been much abuse in the name of religion.
But to me it’s the human condition that’s responsible not any kind of theory in a book


Our nature is screwed up

Religion is a failed, measly attempt to transform our nature


we need something better

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: payt69

OK here I am responding in a thread about religion, which is just about as pointless as it gets.. but here we go.

Truer words were never spoken... but it does kill time with reckless abandon and makes for a lively discussion. Even if, in the end everyone walks away believing they "won"

Yah that's usually how it goes. Whenever the bible/religion is being discussed, you usually see the false dichotomy of the tenets of religion/the bible being historically true (since that to most people is the only concept of 'truth' they can think of) vs it being false/superstition.

So hopefully we can present a third option, namely that pretty much all the scriptures of the best known religions (but also other less known myths) point to the same truth through analogy.

The problem is that we have big trouble understanding what these myths point to because it;s like a long lost language. So maybe we have to re-learn what all the symbols mean. In my experience, a lot can be deduced from the contect in which everything is used. In my experience for example the bible is pretty much self-referring in it's idioms. If you want to find out what a particular term or concept means, you have to do so within the conbtext of the biblle itself, instead of inserting our own concepts and assuming that that's what it's referring to.

A few examples:

-Death. To us 'death' means the moment your body stops functioning, and you're ready to be boxed and either burned or buried. In the biblical context it usually means identificatiion with the temporal, external, impermanent (like a mist). Paul defines it exactly in Romans 8:6, but it's all through the bible really.

-Heaven. Most people imagine a different place somewhere in the universe or transcendent of it where God resides. Whereever it is, it is a -place- one 'goes to' after 'death'. You can readily see that this line of thinking is ful of concepts which if not understood can lead one astray easily.

In Luke 17, the farizees ask Jesus WHEN the kingdom of heaven will arrive. See they were thinking the exact same way most religious people do nowadays. They think it's something that's to be instituted somewhere in time, as an external, physical event.

So what does Jesus tell them? Well you can't see it. It's not physical in nature. Don't look at the outside. It's not here or there, but within.

This apparently is something that's incredibly hard to grasp.I guess inb Christian orthodox thinking, the idea of the KIngdom of God being within, there to be explored by those who are willing to look, conflicts with the idea that we are sinners, destined for hell unless we get ourselves 'saved'. How could the 'kingdom of heaven' be 'within' while we are mere sinners?

Which introduces 2 more terms: 'saved' and 'sin'. What does it mean to be 'saved', and what is 'sin'? Well I can go on and on, but I think you catch my drift by now.

I really wish I could remember who said it, but there was some monastic that once said of the Bible that it was filled with instructive stories about the human condition, some of which may even be true. I'm paraphrasing, because I can't find the author of the quote or the original quote. But the general idea was that the factual content of Biblical knowledge is of less value, in the long run, than the "truth" in terms of the wisdom/mystery described.

So, in the end, I believe the Bible to be TRUE, but not necessarily entirely FACTUAL on all accounts. I certainly don't take it as a science manual or a history book.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way then

And I'll depart with this quote, which gets at the heart of why I love the "mystery of faith":

“In the Christian context, we do not mean by a "mystery" merely that which is baffling and mysterious, an enigma or insoluble problem. A mystery is, on the contrary, something that is revealed for our understanding, but which we never understand exhaustively because it leads into the depth or the darkness of God. The eyes are closed—but they are also opened.” ― Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way

Right on!

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Obviously you did not read the OP.

a reply to: Willtell

Just because they use religion as a crutch to convince themselves they have finally been born again, doesn't make it any less of a complete crock, it only enhances my point. Why did they need to get thrown in prison first? It is not like they are not still sinning in that prison cell. They still get drugs, they still have sex, they still fight.

Heck the prison system itself is just a furtherance of the same conspiracy.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: forthelove

How can you claim truth yet have no evidence? You see how this works?

Epic fail on your behalf. Are you going to deny that religion is a farce? That there has been a conspiracy for centuries? That the bulk of humankind has been brainwashed? All you have to do is turn on a television on any day of the week to see the truth. I do not have to provide evidence.

Yeah, I see how it works.

originally posted by: Elementalist
It felt like a rant by a high school student who has no back research on ancient scripture, no experience of Providence, no understanding of self.

Though I agree, taking scripture at face value and regurgitating the same thing that has been altered, edited and used for many many agendas throughout time, is utterly nonsense and insane.

I don't agree with your bashing and childish choice of words and intent you have used to write the OP.

But what the hell..

Interesting, wishy washy much?

Remember a few things when jumping on the Bible.

1) When it was originally written
2) Who it was written for
3) What has happened to the "original" texts over the years.

When you answer those questions

1) Around 3500 years ago
2) The illiterate and uncivilised masses
3) Picked at, taken apart and put back together to suit various people/times.

Take the Bible for what it unfortunately has become. A deliberately mistranslated series of stories with it's original purpose to teach the illiterate, unenlightened and uncivilised masses to turn to what we now know as "God".

When understanding this you realise that it no longer holds the same purpose as it originally did. That's not to say it holds no purpose..

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
Religion had great intentions. Many years ago a higher power of sorts either visited us or lived with us. They could do things unexplainable. I mean hell you can take a simple magic trick and show it to monkeys and small children and they are in amazement...they may think you have magic powers.

What really sucks is now almost all of the wars are religion driven. It's so silly given we all have the same goal and that is the worship of one God. I don't go to church because they want me there for the money. I don't need a church to pray to the God I know perhaps created us.

Wars are driven by greed. I do not have a goal to worship a god. I accept that there is a higher power. I do not pray to anything.

originally posted by: forthelove

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
Religion had great intentions. Many years ago a higher power of sorts either visited us or lived with us. They could do things unexplainable. I mean hell you can take a simple magic trick and show it to monkeys and small children and they are in amazement...they may think you have magic powers.

What really sucks is now almost all of the wars are religion driven. It's so silly given we all have the same goal and that is the worship of one God. I don't go to church because they want me there for the money. I don't need a church to pray to the God I know perhaps created us.

Wars are driven by greed. I do not have a goal to worship a god. I accept that there is a higher power. I do not pray to anything.

Good. And that's your choice. And in my opinion it's a pretty well educated, solid decision. But those who choose to "pray" to their higher power should not be ridiculed. They are choosing their own path and trying to make sense of this life in their own way. If they choose religion to help them, so be it.

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
Remember a few things when jumping on the Bible.

1) When it was originally written
2) Who it was written for
3) What has happened to the "original" texts over the years.

When you answer those questions

1) Around 3500 years ago
2) The illiterate and uncivilised masses
3) Picked at, taken apart and put back together to suit various people/times.

Take the Bible for what it unfortunately has become. A deliberately mistranslated series of stories with it's original purpose to teach the illiterate, unenlightened and uncivilised masses to turn to what we now know as "God".

When understanding this you realise that it no longer holds the same purpose as it originally did. That's not to say it holds no purpose..

I didn't jump on the bible. I find it incredulous that so many have decided to base their lives on fiction of all religious books. They are all designed for one thing, to brainwash. Want to read them and dissect them in any form, it matters not how they are translated in any language, they are all full of it.

a reply to: forthelove

Any book on religion that claims "god said" has lost all credibility on having facts in it. Who did god say it to? Did they get a recording? You want to ask me what is my evidence that religion is a sham? Start with those words, "and allah said" or "jesus said, or any hooeybalooey pertaining to specific quotes and silly anecdotes about thall shall not use thy name in vain or coming down from a mountain with tablets or parting the red sea with a staff or take your pick.

originally posted by: Tucket
a reply to: forthelove
I essentially agree with the OP..

But..still choose to believe in Jesus..

How effed is that,OP?

That's not too effed. That's how I roll too.

a reply to: AnuTyr

I feel pretty badas$ after reading that post.

That was awesome

How can people still believe in Jesus when there is so much evidence that points to Jesus benign nothing more than a personification of the Sun?

This is a perfect example of people being willfully ignorant and afraid to read things that don't compliment their belief systems.

In 100 years or so people will look back at this time period and think, how could so many people be brainwashed so easily? Why was everyone so stupid?

I think its because everyone is actually afraid of the truth.

DISCLAIMER!!!! I am an ordained minister. LONG story, but I needed the credentials.

When I was a very young child, I was raised presbyterian. After a sermon one Sunday morning (I can't even recall the subject because this point had been bothering me), I asked the minister "So, what if a tribe of people are so isolated that they never get to hear the word of God, and they sin like crazy, do they still go to hell"?

His answer was yes and he shooed me away.

I was appalled that a God of love wouldn't have the decency to forgive them because they were simply ignorant of the facts.

As some know, I'm an engineer. I assemble facts for my projects then find holes where we need to plug in solutions.

So, let's look at the number of religions that exist on the face of the earth at the moment.

According to Wikipedia, there are over 4200.

Now, some of these preach and believe that if you are not one of them, and follow their SPECIFIC rules, you go to hell.

Which means that, in order for my soul to not go to hell, just starting out with the basic odds, I have 1 chance in 4200 to pick the right one, or DOWN I GO!!!! And being born in the US (at the time), there were only a few that I really have access to.

So, they are all right (which can't be), OR they are all wrong.

Monty, I'll take door number 2 please, because I simply can't imagine a God of love would only allow one out of all of these religions to be the right one and random luck would judge eternal souls to hell simply because they didn't find the right one.

There is a divine being that controls everything. There are way too many NDE's that document the death process. And in most of them, they recall speaking to the all mighty. The stories are SO close to the same it will send chills up your spine.

So, there really are only two choices for what happens when we die.

1. We cease to exist as a being. This would suck.

2. Something like this : www.collective-evolution.com...

Or, read the book "Return to Life - extraordinary cases of children that remember past lives"

I choose to pick #2, because it makes the most sense. We are all eternal beings, and this is basically the largest video game/movie/virtual reality ever produced. We are participating in it with souls that we have been growing up with for a LONG time. My wife and I knew each other before we met. I know, because when each of us met, we both already felt familiar. Now we understand why.

Until this century, there has been ZERO research and documentation on the small children that recall previous lives. In the past, these children were treated as possessed and some of them were outright killed because the church leaders had to silence the masses. Anything that upset the status quo was snuffed out before it "got legs".

If we knew the real facts, it would change this entire experience, which I personally think will eventually happen, "waking us up" to what really is out there and why we really are "here".

And to be brutally honest, that's why there is such mystery in the whole thing. If you knew the reason why you were playing a game, it would take the fun out of it.



FIRE AT WILL COMMANDER!!!!!

M....

O

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

What was it if it wasn't an apple? I'm seriously curious?

(was the apple a metaphor for vagina?)

No it was not a vagina

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply before the fruit of the tree incident
No again as to what type of fruit, it could be anything, even an extinct plant

It may have been spiritual, who knows

Or even an apple?

a reply to: forthelove

Your opinion doesn't make it true

a reply to: NthOther

He never claimed to be smart, maybe you just have too many assumptions based off your ideology. You talk about him insulting people....when you're a hypocrite, you just insulted him back. I coudln't expect anything less from a religious person. They always bring the insults out when they are beaten by logic.

I'll pray for you. Is that cool?

Don't waste your breath...

originally posted by: ParasuvO
a reply to: Plotus

Everything you were told, is to make sure you stay in line.

But feel free to believe you are on the right side, what you should realize is that in your lifetime, your religions will vanish in the blink of an eye, and no one will even remember what they were about.

And you will be thankful, as well.

I'm sure you believe that, but it hardly seems accurate, More like wishful thinking and hyperbole. A quick search provided the numbers and they hardly seem at risk of declining by any appreciable amount.

Devils advocate...... 'spose they were cut in half or even to one percent of the population, it would still be a stagering number..

en.wikipedia.org...

Even plus or minus a billion, the numbers hardly seem to agree with your summation.