All Religion Is Fake and While We Are At It

a reply to: flyandi

Not where I go. Services are long, everyone stands through most of it, prayers are sung/read asking for mercy, wisdom, forgiveness and, thanks.

The focus is directed toward honoring God and the sacraments. There are sermons, but usually brief and related to the readings of the day and how the information can be applied for the purpose of growing closer to God.

Salvation is generally mentioned as something each of us should continually work towards with the aid of God's mercy, yes, but also with fear and trembling....as in, just showing up is good, but working to grow closer to God requires more behavioral effort than just showing up....and no one should presume they're fine just for standing there at the right time. The priest frequently asks everyone to pray for him in the hopes that he'll keep working in the right direction, as well.

There's a lot of formality to rituals and incense...which tends to make my nose itch...but the tone is serious, sober and contemplative, which is a nice departure from big bands, teleprompters, and the strange floor show I've seen in some places. I'll take my itchy nose and sore feet (from standing at length) over that any day.

.......

Of course, like anywhere, the parking lot is full during Christmas and Easter but much less so the rest of the time. The ethnic component means there's a group who literally sits out the sacraments in protest, cranky the service isn't 100% in Greek. There are also plenty who, for whatever reason, show up 5 minutes before communion and depart shortly after their turn in line. Most people are nice most of the time, though...and generally respectful. Sometimes there are exceptions, but that's people.

There are activities that cost money (social dinners, dances, trips to the monastery) and lots that don't (Sunday School, Bible study, youth groups, the lady's charitable group). People are encouraged to give back to the community as they're able with time, talents or money...but money is not a major focus. I've been given stacks of books and icons with no request for remuneration.

Bible study tends to be a small group. Vespers are also attended by a small group and confession is a ghost town, with at most a handful of people lining up. But, I've found it more helpful than a trip to a therapist, even if I don't always like what the priest recommends to resolve troubles....especially things about letting go of pride, dropping expectations in favor of humility, love and acceptance.

It's not necessarily everyone's cup of tea, but I find the services sincere, meaningful and a nice start to the week.

I guess my main issue with religion is the diversity. There are so many religions in existence, which all believe they are right and the rest are going to hell. That right there should set off warning bells for any person.

It's like going to buy a tablet, 5 different salesman all offer you 5 different tablets when you realise you don't need a tablet in the first place.

Well that and, religion gives people an easy excuse to live with their mistakes. "I apologized to a higher power and it forgave me" which makes a lot of people think it's okay to repeat their mistakes.

I hold myself to a higher standard than that of God, I live with my guilt, I process it, I analyze it, and I make sure not to repeat the mistake that caused the guilt. I don't look for simple cop-outs like "God forgives".

I really hope God doesn't forgive, coz if he does, he's one stupid fothermucker.

originally posted by: Lysergic
God(s) if you are there, give us a sign ITT.

Does four blood moons in a row landing on Israelite festival dates at least qualify?

Parallel Verses New International Version And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

Yeah right. Throughout thousands of years, and spanning over every culture and most of the people on earth....finally, you're the guy who gets it right? You expect us to take YOUR word as gospel? What makes you the mouthpiece for all mankind from the beginning of time until now? Just because YOU don't believe in something, doesn't make your belief in nothing true. I noticed you were talking about "these books", yet you only used the Bible as an example. The reason why suffering happens is because, according to the Bible, Satan still rules the earth until Jesus comes back to relieve him of duty. Also, just because our flesh and blood means everything to us...because it's all we really have at the end of the day...God considers the soul to be of a higher value and makes it quite clear that those who live in the flesh (only thinking about their bodies and their lives) shall lose them both. So flesh means nothing in the grand scale of the universe. Also, we have many horrible leaders in this world, and they are not being removed from their positions....just wait, Jesus will remove Satan from his post soon enough. It's all written....now all YOU need to do, is read it and stop talking about things you apparently know nothing about, other than what YOU believe in....which is nothing. A pointless life.

The Bible has more proof of religious existence, than you do of nothing existing.

a reply to: randyvs

Perhaps God was referring to the lights on the Vegas Strip? Open to interpretation I guess..

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

The bible has a lot of proof of smart people manipulating dumb people...But that's about it. The amount of contradictions in the bible never ceases to amaze. God of love, but wipes out 6000 people because they didn't do what he said? Does this God even understand unconditional love? Because it seems I'm better than he is. I've never killed 6000 people, let alone any! This God of yours should be trialed for genocide.

I'm sorry... I can't let this one pass me by.

I'm so tired of hearing the same old "if there was a God" stories about illness and disaster. Calling people delusional for being religious is terrible. You have no proof that what they believe doesn't really exist. you mention a higher power but yet you stand and ridicule others who try and make sense of it.

I have been sceptical and downright saddened by much of what organised religion has done to society. However, as someone who was raised a Catholic I saw nothing but a church and a community gathering to give respect or, if you want, "worship" their higher power - God. I saw no malice. I saw no evil. I just saw true faith. And respect.

You have to differentiate. It's not about those in charge. Everyone with half a brain knows they are incredibly corrupt. It's not about the Vatican and what I represents. For the Catholics I know it's about praying to God and living your life as a normal human being.

People have been lied to because Religion is man made. That much is evident. But faith inside and outside of organised religion shouldn't be criticised. Criticise how corrupt, deceitful and immoral many religious leaders have been over the years but you shouldn't call those who are a member of that religion "delusional".

Religious faith, I feel, Is very personal. As is non-religious faith. You'll realise, the more you talk to people, those who claim to be of a certain religion really just have faith and don't follow every single word of their chosen religion's teachings.

It's certainly not as clear cut as you make out.

originally posted by: WonOunce
a reply to: Raggedyman

And with it we have seen the Dark Ages, the black plague persecutions, suicide bombers, countless wars, hate, greed, child rape, child mutilation just to name a few. Religion is the most dangerous thing ever created by man.

Man can be the most dangerous thing

a reply to: forthelove

Hear hear, entirely well said, bravo bravo, lets hear it for reason and common sense.


Except for one thing…

The entire system we live in is based on a big, fat pack of lies and makes it the largest and oldest conspiracy ever.

The truth has been turned into that pack of lies, disnifo, misinfo, subversion, a mere shadow of the reality, designed to distract and form our opinion there is no spirituality… at all.

Hopefully you don't believe that. Because then all those lies have accomplished their task, they have made you believe in nothing.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

The bible has a lot of proof of smart people manipulating dumb people...But that's about it. The amount of contradictions in the bible never ceases to amaze. God of love, but wipes out 6000 people because they didn't do what he said? Does this God even understand unconditional love? Because it seems I'm better than he is. I've never killed 6000 people, let alone any! This God of yours should be trialed for genocide.

Do you believe in God?

Do you believe He killed those 6000 people?

Do you know why He killed the 6000 people?

Just remember, God brought us into this world, He can take us out of it, too.

our inventions,scientific breakthroughs our art and everything that we humans created and did not receive directly from nature - most or maybe all of this was achieved and created by defying the authority of religious dogmas.
dogmas that a few created to have power over the lot.
i think we humans are a rebellious bunch and i applaud and support it every day actively.

imo to deal with religion or any kind of- believe system is only healthy if one is able to digest it and stay open for other brain-foods afterwards. there is a lot of good things in all the religions of the world and they are all worth checking out. fake or not they are impressive creations and one can learn a lot of them.
but getting stuck in them is a problem imo.
apparently we somehow create our own reality so probably we better stay flexible so we can achieve something we can all appreciate collectively.

You miss the point.... each religion is based off something much larger and older. The religions were only necessary to keep people believing in God over this substantial period of time. Each has their own secrets which were once part of a whole. Yes, God comes from within BUT not everyone can see on the same level which requires religious teachings to build faith. Some turn from religion and abuse it's power since they feel slighted that God never came down and shook their hand. These people were supposed to reason to God, but put faith in a failed religion. Anywhere you are now in your beliefs, I hope most of you have looked inside yourselves at the most critical moments in your lives and found that inner strength in knowing that God exists. Some understand God's communication better than others which requires them to teach but they choose to be selfish. Truth will always lead to God.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

I believe that this is very well true - however I still don't quite understand why humans only can deal with each other when they pray together to a higher entity that is so easy corruptible and then defend this corrupted system with all of their power.

I think everyone understands that "church" and it's community programs are doing a vital service to society. The whole idea of building good "morals" and giving people who "lost all of their hope" a new view point and the feeling that they are part of something is very honorable.

I could agree that this is maybe the only way humans can be together - by abiding to a common ruleset in a standardized framework - humans need to be guided and require guidance. In a way Religions were governing (and are still today) people for most of our recorded history anyway and were just recently replaced with "civilian" rulers.

But my issue with religion and their followers is that there are not two (or three, four, ten) ways - only one and if you don't abide to it, then you go to "hell" . The kindness and comforting arms don't apply to people who question it - in a way religion discriminates against people - maybe the most coordinated racist system in the world.

Here is a good story www.galactanet.com...

originally posted by: flyandi
a reply to: MrConspiracy

I believe that this is very well true - however I still don't quite understand why humans only can deal with each other when they pray together to a higher entity that is so easy corruptible and then defend this corrupted system with all of their power.

I think everyone understands that "church" and it's community programs are doing a vital service to society. The whole idea of building good "morals" and giving people who "lost all of their hope" a new view point and the feeling that they are part of something is very honorable.

I could agree that this is maybe the only way humans can be together - by abiding to a common ruleset in a standardized framework - humans need to be guided and require guidance. In a way Religions were governing (and are still today) people for most of our recorded history anyway and were just recently replaced with "civilian" rulers.

But my issue with religion and their followers is that there are not two (or three, four, ten) ways - only one and if you don't abide to it, then you go to "hell" . The kindness and comforting arms don't apply to people who question it - in a way religion discriminates against people - maybe the most coordinated racist system in the world.

Here is a good story www.galactanet.com...

You will always find extremes. But to focus on those extremes and suggest all religion has a "with us or against us" attitude is misguided. I understand where you're coming from but I think you're looking at the situation too generally. I've seen nothing but acceptance towards non believers.

I have strayed away from organised religion over the years and nobody from my local church thinks any less of me. They have a fantastic priest and I still have family who attend. I have not been shunned. I have not been thought as of less of a person. I still go... maybe once or twice every few years... If I want to. And it's like I never left.

I agree with you that many places of worship set out to help people which is fantastic. But will still get tarnished with the same brush as religion "bashers" .... it's a shame.

OK here I am responding in a thread about religion, which is just about as pointless as it gets.. but here we go.

In the words of Joseph Campbell: myth is somebody else's religion.

All religion is based on myths. How do we know this? Well for one: the test on which every religion is based on describes events that have little to do with everyday reality. It describes mythical beings (such as dragons, leviathans, angels, cherubs etc) which are trademark features of mythology. Also the way stories are told make little sense outside of mythology.

So mythology (such as the events described in the bible) is not the same thing as history. And that is the big mistake every theologian, Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc make. They take their books as literal history, as if it was some kind of newspaper describing events that happened a long time ago. In doing this, you're taking away all the power of the myth.

You see the power of these myths doesn't lie in whether any of the events actually happened in a historical sense, but in the way in which they make you understand who and what you are, and your relation to the world around you, as well as the nature of that world.

But to understand what a book such as the bible is actually describing, you have to understand it's language. Nothing in it is literal, but everything points to some aspect of your being. It points inwards instead of outwards. If you can't find the principle described in the bible within you, then it's pointless.

It seems that way back in the day such mythological principles were much better understood. Ancient mythology is rife with divine pregnancies (en.wikipedia.org...), dying and rising gods (en.wikipedia.org...), creation stories, end of the world scenarios, etc.

All of these on a deeper level describe our own spiritual journey from ignorance of who/what we are (death/slavery) to the point where we identify our true being (rebirth/resurrection).

Anyway this is an incredibly deep subject. I'll just leave you with some studies that can help you along:

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: forthelove

Why do you seem so jaded with your post? Who cares what people believe as long as they don't hurt anyone. How is this a religious conspiracy this is a rant against religion but basically just a rant.

Because religion hurts a lot of people?

In most religions there is a sense and non-sense both. Its your(ours) job to handle that.

The simple truth held in the essence of most religions ------>
Being is everything
Everything else is an illusion

Being angry at religions means that only your have not reached gnosis on the required level.
Have no worries myself was angry at religions for years and years.

originally posted by: frostie
a reply to: forthelove

Organized Religion was created by man to control and manipulate the masses.

Thankfully the masses are catching up and numbers are declining.

Thats not to say one cant be religious, or believe in a higher power.

I have created a personal religion for myself, based on what I have experienced/Observed.

I believe in Kharma and thats what keeps me a good person.


Good for you. I say that everyone make up their own religion. We all do anyway - so why keep it a secret?

I believe in a higher power/entity/being has had presence in my life, just not sure who/what.

Dont want to be ignorant

a reply to: flyandi

But my issue with religion and their followers is that there are not two (or three, four, ten) ways - only one and if you don't abide to it, then you go to "hell" . The kindness and comforting arms don't apply to people who question it - in a way religion discriminates against people - maybe the most coordinated racist system in the world.

I'm not sure who is running around telling everyone they are (or should) go to hell. Sure, there are some sects that do this more than others. But, not all Christians or, for that matter, other faiths, expend a lot of energy trying to sort out the eternal reward of others.

As a matter of fact, there are well known people within Christian tradition that have had visions of "non-believers" in heaven. In the tradition that I've adopted, and that's adopted me, the idea seems to be that people just need to do the best they can with what they've got....and if any judging is to be done, it's God's business.

There's really not much point in trying to judge others as a) you can't control what other people think or do b) the only one you can reasonably hope to control is yourself.

From where I sit, atheists are often just as bad in the "mine's better than yours" department. What is constantly suggesting that religious people are, in essence, "knuckle dragging, unenlightened racists/bigots" but a moral judgement against the character of the individual?

I think the takeaway is that PEOPLE in their very HUMAN nature tend to not like to have their strongly held convictions questioned. "I'm right, you're wrong...shut up you wrong person, you" seems to be a default setting.

The challenge is to care about others enough to disagree and still recognize the worth of the people involved. This is something I'm certainly not perfect on, but it's definitely the great brass ring of life, I would say.

a reply to: payt69

OK here I am responding in a thread about religion, which is just about as pointless as it gets.. but here we go.

Truer words were never spoken... but it does kill time with reckless abandon and makes for a lively discussion. Even if, in the end everyone walks away believing they "won"

You see the power of these myths doesn't lie in whether any of the events actually happened in a historical sense, but in the way in which they make you understand who and what you are, and your relation to the world around you, as well as the nature of that world.

I really wish I could remember who said it, but there was some monastic that once said of the Bible that it was filled with instructive stories about the human condition, some of which may even be true. I'm paraphrasing, because I can't find the author of the quote or the original quote. But the general idea was that the factual content of Biblical knowledge is of less value, in the long run, than the "truth" in terms of the wisdom/mystery described.

So, in the end, I believe the Bible to be TRUE, but not necessarily entirely FACTUAL on all accounts. I certainly don't take it as a science manual or a history book.

And I like, if not totally agreeing with, Joseph Campbell...if nothing else than it's a good book if you want to work on your creative writing skills, in particular.

And I'll depart with this quote, which gets at the heart of why I love the "mystery of faith":

“In the Christian context, we do not mean by a "mystery" merely that which is baffling and mysterious, an enigma or insoluble problem. A mystery is, on the contrary, something that is revealed for our understanding, but which we never understand exhaustively because it leads into the depth or the darkness of God. The eyes are closed—but they are also opened.” ― Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way