McDonald's Says its Wage Hikes Are Improving Service

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TerryDon79

See this is what you people don't get.

Remove all these jobs and you will understand the true value of the service they provide.

Especially when you have to go hunt for your own meat and clean and cook the animal yourself.

You misunderstand the value your getting because you've become spoiled and coddled to the point that you take everything around you for granted.

If these people weren't doing those jobs our society would cease to exist and I'm more than willing to bet that you enjoy living in America.

As I stated, I don't live in America, but your argument is global.

Also, as I've already stated, I've worked in fast food.

Those jobs weren't meant to be done by adults looking for a living wage. They're meant to be done by kids learning about responsibilities and work ethics.

a reply to: Bedlam

www.lowwagework.org...

Do know anything else other than the constant bs the three of you have been spewing at me all day?

These are adult jobs your perpetuating a mythology that somehow tens of millions of jobs are all meant for 16 year olds.
Sorry but most 16 years olds are at school all day when most of these businesses are still open and providing a service that many of you regularly enjoy.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Bedlam

Sorry but go to a store and see how many of these jobs are being done by kids.

Your logic is seriously flawed and not grounded in reality.

Your perspective is tied to a pre NAFTA world and that world is gone.

My tax dollars go towards providing those people with better educations than that.

If you don't avail yourself of it, then # you. It was handed to you on a silver platter. You spit on it. Ok. Time to face the results of your choices in life.

I refuse to support the lazy. As I said, if you are an adult with that job, then it's the choice you made.

NAFTA be damned, I was always able to find better than minimum wage jobs. If you have any drive or talent whatever, then those jobs are there. Even driving a forklift pays better than burger flipping.

eta: I was a junior in a backwoods high school when I hit better than minimum wage. I drove a forklift and did specialty welding for a couple of years before my military stint. It's got nothing to do with NAFTA. If you have any gumption at all, you will do better as an adult. If you're still working the register at the McD's, you might as well put on the concrete shoes and go river wading. There are a lot of jobs waiting for the people that have any motivation at all.

I'm just curious, how long has it been since you've looked at wages for the work you mention? One place I worked at paid forklift drivers minimum wage, the welding department all got paid minimum wage except the lead, as a manager of a different department I was making 9/hr (min wage was around 8 at the time)

Another place I worked more recently I was making 10/hr, oregon min wage being 9.25 by this time. The machine shop workers made minimum wage, the welders made 10/hr, the other production workers minimum wage, I was driving forklift and running the shipping and receiving department.

These places were not unique at all. That's pretty much the way it is now unless it's a union shop.

The vast majority of the welders and machine shop guys at my previous places of employment were in their 40s. Some were older and some were younger guys, but your characterization that anyone who isn't a kid making minimum wage has done something seriously wrong in their life is not only incorrect but it's insulting. These companies were not some shady operations either, they have been around a long time and are owned by large corporations, their office parking lots full of new 7 series and S classes.

The issue you seem to be willfully ignoring is that the game has changed, you are judging a current situation by old standards. A decent wage used to be fairly easy to obtain for anyone that wasn't lazy or incompetent. Now it's significantly more difficult, and the traditional methods of obtaining good employment that we were all taught to trust in are failing us.

At those places I mentioned the pattern was always the same, the machine shop and welding departments would be mainly staffed by the older guys with solid skills, getting paid dirt, and other production work was a revolving door of young people also paid dirt. When the jobs disappear it's a simple numbers game, and companies can hire skilled workers for low wages, and over time wages across the board become crap. That's the reality of today, I won't disagree that there are plenty of incompetent and lazy people out there, but oddly enough they seem to have decent jobs just as often as not.

The current economic issue is not a result of people just being lazy, it's because the fabric of our economy is going through a radical change. We have been running on post WWII momentum that has been tapped out. The world is changing dramatically, as is the country, so don't act like people just suddenly lost their work ethic. Government jobs used to pay poorly compared to private sector ones, now everyone complains about how government workers are overpaid. Their wages have not gone up. Private sector wages, in most cases, have taken a nosedive. If that doesn't demonstrate the issue clearly enough to get the point across I don't know what will.

a reply to: TerryDon79

So at 10 am on Monday what kid is available to do these jobs?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: onequestion

Just imagine how awesome service will be if they raise minimum wage to 30 dollars an hour!

Maybe tgey would get my order right for a bloody change?

originally posted by: onequestion

Do know anything else other than the constant bs the three of you have been spewing at me all day?

Yep. I've been there. I learned how to do things that paid better wages. And kept on going.

a reply to: onequestion

Do know anything else other than the constant bs the three of you have been spewing at me all day?

All day? You're just making stuff up.

These are adult jobs your perpetuating a mythology that somehow tens of millions of jobs are all meant for 16 year olds.

No. They are jobs are meant to support teenagers or those who want supplemental income, not people who want them as a sole source of income.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Bedlam

www.lowwagework.org...

Do know anything else other than the constant bs the three of you have been spewing at me all day?

These are adult jobs your perpetuating a mythology that somehow tens of millions of jobs are all meant for 16 year olds.
Sorry but most 16 years olds are at school all day when most of these businesses are still open and providing a service that many of you regularly enjoy.

Utter bs.

We leave school at 16 and can go onto further education (also subsidised). Even full time college or university you can work full time burger flipping.

a reply to: James1982

Don't be a communist.

No I'm just kidding very well said.

They are living in a false paradigm.

One word comes to mind.

Zealotry.

a reply to: James1982

The current economic issue is not a result of people just being lazy, it's because the fabric of our economy is going through a radical change.

But something hasn't changed. The fact that a given product has a price, and a cost. If the cost exceeds the price, it doesn't make much sense to make it.

a reply to: Phage

You have no idea what your talking about your totally ignoring the fact that 70% of he American economy is service sector economy because we have lost over 11 million manufacturing jobs since NAFTA was signed

Sorry but you are wrong dead wrong and your perspective is based on total ignorance not grounded in reality.

You didn't read the link I included in the post and refute any of the information or its source because you have an agenda and the truth isn't it.

originally posted by: James1982
I'm just curious, how long has it been since you've looked at wages for the work you mention? One place I worked at paid forklift drivers minimum wage, the welding department all got paid minimum wage except the lead, as a manager of a different department I was making 9/hr (min wage was around 8 at the time)

Another place I worked more recently I was making 10/hr, oregon min wage being 9.25 by this time. The machine shop workers made minimum wage, the welders made 10/hr, the other production workers minimum wage, I was driving forklift and running the shipping and receiving department.

These places were not unique at all. That's pretty much the way it is now unless it's a union shop.

At those places I mentioned the pattern was always the same, the machine shop and welding departments would be mainly staffed by the older guys with solid skills...

Skill is the ticket to marketing yourself. I drove forklift for a bit before discovering that the key to making more money was having my union journeyman's ticket, so I got it. Same with welding, if you can do basic welding, it's worth a little more than minimum but the money's in being able to do specialty welding, and actually being able to DO it.

If you don't bother to take the initiative, you will get kicked to the curb. If you don't have something to offer, you get bupkes for pay.

a reply to: Phage

like I've stated previously in he thread


Get your heads out of the books and into reality where real people who aren't kids HAVE to work these jobs because of the limited supply of opportunity due to globalization and technology.

a reply to: Bedlam

You are ignoring the fact that that kind of economic opportunity doesn't exist en mass any longer and these jobs need to be done in order for our society to exist and the people that do these jobs deserve to be able to pay for food and housing.

originally posted by: onequestion
...due to globalization and technology.

Then it's time to learn something new. Lots of unemployed buggy whip trimmers.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Phage

like I've stated previously in he thread


Get your heads out of the books and into reality where real people who aren't kids HAVE to work these jobs because of the limited supply of opportunity due to globalization and technology.

How many of those people have a degree in something that would help them get a decent job? Most have basic education. You can't expect to earn more than basic if you aren't willing to put the time and energy in to get a profitable skill.

a reply to: onequestion

Get your heads out of the books and into reality where real people who aren't kids HAVE to work these jobs because of the limited supply of opportunity due to globalization and technology.

I heard you. It's Marx.
"To each according to his need."

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Bedlam

You are ignoring the fact that that kind of economic opportunity doesn't exist en mass any longer...

Sure it does. It has always required effort, creativity and talent. If you want it handed to you, then it's going to be tough.

a reply to: Bedlam

Once again your using a position that has been repeatedly proven to be false.

When the car replaced the horse and buggy what happened to all the horses?

Your the horse not the buggy trimmer.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Bedlam

You are ignoring the fact that that kind of economic opportunity doesn't exist en mass any longer...

Sure it does. It has always required effort, creativity and talent. If you want it handed to you, then it's going to be tough.

Who said anything being handed to you?

My position is that every human has value regardless of what you think of their skills and that value of and in itself is worth not living a miserable poverty stricken life while providing you with services you regularly enjoy and that make our society a more pleasurable experience.

That is the value. Your position doesn't and hasn't been holding up. You constantly repeat yourself and in my opinion it's childish and annoying.