McDonald's Says its Wage Hikes Are Improving Service

a reply to: TerryDon79

you're the one equating job skills to human worth. That's not the case

No his premise is that everyone should be paid a basic living wage. We as humans have a right in an affluent society that handsomely rewards the money printers, asset shifters to reduce taxation liabilities, country swapping for better taxation regime, to ask for a bare minimum living wage. No one is asking for factories to close or that the factory owner subsidize the cost of production or sell at a loss. That has happened anyway long before globalization became a buzz word with the destruction of the manufacturing base of most western economies as corporations fled overseas and patronized dictators in exchange for lax labour laws or favourable tax treatment.

For any one else in this thread that keeps throwing up Marx...

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Phage

But then where will you get your McNuggets? But you're right. When a business becomes unprofitable because of the market (us) it goes away.

How is this allowed to exist in your Capitalistic Utopia?

It's allowed to exist, because they rely on the stupidity of the masses... If a person with a flat lined bank account ask's for a fair wage, they call it socialism, or even communism!

But, if a small business owner pulling 150k a year ask's for a free ride, since "competing with large corporations is really hard work", they call it it capitalism...

Obviously the masses have no comprehension of the true definition of 'socialism' and 'capitalism'

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

This is what Marx was trying to educate people on...seems with the bailout of the too big to fail bankers he was right on the money


en.wikipedia.org...

The capital "exists only in the latter form", while the stock or share "is merely a title of ownership to a corresponding portion of the surplus-value to be realised by it".[7] The formation of fictitious capital is, for Marx, linked to the wider contradiction between the financial system in capitalism and its monetary basis. Marx writes: "With the development of interest-bearing capital and the credit system, all capital seems to double itself, and sometimes treble itself, by the various modes in which the same capital, or perhaps even the same claim on a debt, appears in different forms in different hands. The greater portion of this 'money-capital' is purely fictitious. All the deposits, with the exception of the reserve fund, are merely claims on the banker, which, however, never exist as deposits."[7] The expansion of the credit system can, in periods of capitalist expansion, be beneficial for the system; but in periods of economic crisis and uncertainty, capitalists tend, Marx argues, to look to the security of the "money-commodity" (gold) as the ultimate measure of value. Marx tends to assume the convertibility of paper money into gold. However, the modern system of inconvertible paper money, backed by the authority of states, poses greater problems. Here, in periods of crisis, "the capitalist class appears to have a choice between devaluing money or commodities, between inflation or depression. In the event that monetary policy is dedicated to avoiding both, it will merely end up incurring both".[9] Speculation and fictitious capital[edit] Profit can be made purely from trading in a variety of financial claims existing only on paper. This is an extreme form of the fetishism of commodities in which the underlying source of surplus-value in exploitation of labour power is disguised. Indeed, profit can be made by using only borrowed capital to engage in (speculative) trade, not backed up by any tangible asset. The price of fictitious capital is governed by a series of complex determinants. In the first instance they are governed by the "present and anticipated future incomes to which ownership entitles the holder, capitalised at the going rate of interest".[10] But fictitious capital is also the object of speculation. The market value of such assets can be driven up and artificially inflated, purely as a result of supply and demand factors which can themselves be manipulated for profit. The inflated value can just as rapidly be punctured if large amounts of capital are withdrawn.[11]

a reply to: Phage

The system is an outcome of human nature.

So are you saying all humans aspire to be sociopathic capitalists? Or is the "human nature" of socialist democracies like Sweden and Denmark with great social security safety nets not count?

a reply to: jacobe001

It is the ones that have no limit on shareholder and corporate profits and have puppet politicians to create trade pacts with communist countries and sold us out to third world slave labor. What is the limit on shareholder profits when your country no longer matters? Your turn

THIS....and your avatar "cronysim kills capitalism"...its lost on some of the posters in this thread...they still are living in the "red scare of the 50's" They think they are living under a true capitalistic system and if you attack it you are attacking the Republic of the USA. The republic was lost when they created the creature from Jekyll Island - the Federal Reserve.
They cling onto an ideal dressed with apple pie, the statue of Liberty ( bring me your downtrodden) and that you can upskill or move to a better "non-existing job because you have choices"

Detroit lost its car industry and is only now making a comeback. Everywhere house prices were depressed people threw in the towel - you rarely hear a peep out of them as to where their "trillion bailouts" went to or that their grandchildren will still be paying off the National debt. Why are they attacking their peers and yet never a word about the true Marxists who are still sipping champagne (although no so much in your face now) and laughing at us collective sheep as we sqaubble amongst ourselves over definitions of classical capitalism or communism......heheheh

You never hear them criticize certain players/classes - why is that?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

You already know why just like I do.

d

This incessant desire to control what other people make is what disgusts me about socialism

How do you justify bailing out "too big to fail" banks and not a mom and dad burger shop that had to put up their house as collateral - what rational do you kid yourself in believing?

How were the bail outs not socialized theft from the taxpayer to the wealthy? Not collectivism/Marxism in your mindset?

What does your signature really say? "Never believe that you are worth nothing. Your organs are worth a bunch on the black market.
-Internet meme"

a reply to: solids0be

than the average low life low class pleb trying to scrape by with a fast food job

Lets hope the MacDonald's by my house trades out the current scumbags for some people that give a sh*t about their job

Why would you be eating at a place where management allows that. Oh thats right because the price is cheap. Ever hear of cooking your own if you feel so strongly about "free human extras" in your meal. The Franchisors choice of employees reflects on their standards. Why do you patronize such silliness. Ever hear about you speak with your money and shop elsewhere?

I won't have to drive 10 miles out of my way to eat

So its not about equity or standards...it all about your sense of entitlement and convenience. Such standards you are teaching your children.

originally posted by: jaffo
In the last week alone the mouthbreathers at McD's have forgotten to add either the cream or the sugar to my morning coffee on at least three occasions even though the requirements were placed on the side of the cup by their own label machine each and every time. Minimal effort should not get you a raise. Yes, we need a genuine living wage. But people also need to do their job and earn their money.

With higher wages they will attract more people willing to do it and they will be able to weed out the minimal effort workers. It simple economics

a reply to: jacobe001

In these days, the Headquarters will be located in another city, another state or across the world isolated from their workforce. There is no human factor anymore and I dare say it is rather Satanic because it is more a machine than serving humanity.

THIS....if they were even remotely altruistic paragons of a humane society believing even for a moment that a corporation is made of not just employees but employees who can also be their customers or that a corporation can have ethical investments and policies for the better of society..then they wouldn't need those hidden elevators would they.

And yet its staring some here in the face....and they fear a fair days work for a fair days pay, as if paying that will somehow reduce shareholder profits or that CEOS will refrain from tax evasion...hehehe

a reply to: jaffo

even though the requirements were placed on the side of the cup by their own label machine each and every time.

Did you complain and get a free replacement, if not why not? Or will reducing their wage somehow punish them into making a better meal.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: jacobe001

It is the ones that have no limit on shareholder and corporate profits and have puppet politicians to create trade pacts with communist countries and sold us out to third world slave labor. What is the limit on shareholder profits when your country no longer matters? Your turn

THIS....and your avatar "cronysim kills capitalism"...its lost on some of the posters in this thread...they still are living in the "red scare of the 50's" They think they are living under a true capitalistic system and if you attack it you are attacking the Republic of the USA.

Yup, I covered that in my thread as well.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy

They want you to think an attack against Corporatism is an attack against Capitalism. They want all the power for themselves and the government should only be accountable to serving only them. We had Capitalism before Corporations took over the government and we would have capitalism if they left.

Re: Organized Labor is Bad - Organized Business is Good

a reply to: TerryDon79

None of what you stated have anything to do with work ethics.

Of course not, with your blinkers on, ethics is only shouldered on the employee, never on the culture of management or shareholders.

So if a "franchisor" gets the license to kill people we blame the employee, not the employer, because somehow in your perfect world the actions of the operating arm of the machine is distinct from the "thinking" part of the machine (management/franchisor). Such disconnect.

your words

Those jobs weren't meant to be done by adults looking for a living wage. They're meant to be done by kids learning about responsibilities and work ethics.

So you are the arbiter of McDonalds economic business model?

a reply to: onequestion

This may even be the results of some of the employees being able to eat there for a change.

I think it was Henry Ford who first had the idea of paying his workers enough so the could actually buy the things they were making.

After that it was "get out of the way boys, this economy is starting to grow" time!

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Obviously the masses have no comprehension of the true definition of 'socialism' and 'capitalism'

but without mentioning names we can read between the lines of what some of the posters really think of their fellow humans

a reply to: jacobe001

aftinet.org.au...

Foreign Corporations could sue our governments

The TPP includes rights for foreign corporations to sue governments for millions of dollars in international tribunalsif they can argue that a change in domestic law or policy at national, state or local level will ‘harm’ their investment, known as Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS). The tribunals consist of investment lawyers who are not independent judges but can continue to be practicing lawyers, with obvious conflicts of interest. Australia’s High Court Chief Justice and other legal experts have said that ISDS is not a fair legal system because it has no independent judges, no precedents and no appeals. Increasing numbers of cases against health, environment and even minimum wage laws show that ISDS can undermine democratic rights to regulate. Public health campaigning has resulted a specific TPP clause to exclude future tobacco regulation from ISDS cases. This is a victory and should prevent future cases like the Philip Morris tobacco company case against our plain packaging law. But the need for the specific exclusion of tobacco regulation shows that the general “safeguards” for other public interest laws are weak, similar to clauses in other recent agreements, and will not prevent corporations from bringing cases.

There goes the right of immunity for Sovereign Government - and our politicians also signed on for the Cypress style Bank Bail-ins - even our deposits are not safe from their crony mates in Wall St

a reply to: tinymind

he probably got the idea from the Mining scrooges

en.wikipedia.org...

Company scrip is scrip (a substitute for government-issued legal tender or currency) issued by a company to pay its employees. It can only be exchanged in company stores owned by the employers.[1][2][3] In the UK, such truck systems have long been formally outlawed under the Truck Acts. In the United States, mining and logging camps were typically created, owned and operated by a single company.[4] These locations, some quite remote, were often cash poor;[1][2][3] even in ones that were not, workers paid in scrip had little choice but to purchase goods at a company store, as exchange into currency, if even available, would exhaust some of the value via the exchange fee.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: solids0be

than the average low life low class pleb trying to scrape by with a fast food job

Lets hope the MacDonald's by my house trades out the current scumbags for some people that give a sh*t about their job

Why would you be eating at a place where management allows that. Oh thats right because the price is cheap. Ever hear of cooking your own if you feel so strongly about "free human extras" in your meal. The Franchisors choice of employees reflects on their standards. Why do you patronize such silliness. Ever hear about you speak with your money and shop elsewhere?

I won't have to drive 10 miles out of my way to eat

So its not about equity or standards...it all about your sense of entitlement and convenience. Such standards you are teaching your children.

That's the thing I don't eat at that location any more...like I had said, Id rather go to the other location where I receive better quality of service within the same franchise.

And I always laugh when people argue that I should be at home cooking meals under the assumption that everyone lives off fast food sustenance. Yes we cook at home 95% of the time, and we use convenience restaurants as they are intended, as a convenience when we are driving home and need to stop for a meal or if my kid just wants to feel like they are getting a treat and treat them.

I'm not poor, I have a decent wage job and I worked hard to get there, so price is really not even part of the equation..to be honest I actually enjoy the taste of a cheap McDonalds pink slime burger compared to the next step up restaurant chains. Regardless I had all the same obstacles in life as the people that work at these places, hell I worked in fast food as a teenager I wasn't half assing complaining about not getting paid enough, I knew the value of work I was performing and because I knew that if I wanted to improve my quality of life that there would have to be an equal amount of effort and persistence to achieve a job that would warrant said quality of life. And as for entitlement...yes your right as a consumer regardless of the transaction shouldn't their be a minimum quality of service that's acceptable? The low difficulty level of the performed job would allow adequate energy to perform acceptable levels of customer service and quality of work. As for equality...yeah I hold myself to a higher standard than most of the employees of these chain places so no they are not equal to me as well as me not being equal to people more qualified then myself...that's reality, I don't expect my employers to raise my pay just because, a person that's more qualified has more skills and more drive puts in more effort, he sure as hell deserves more pay because he would be more valuable...I don't see what's so hard to grasp.

I guess the point I was making didn't flow through though and you concentrated on some random comments within my post, if the $15 minimum wage passes well I hope that this does weed out those low performers, and if it happens Ill just chuckle when there's a uproar about it from the people that are let go.

Maybe all minimum wage workers (burger flippers, forklift drivers, couriers, department store clerks, assembly line workers, etc) in the US should just say f*** it, quit their jobs, and sit on their ass watching Oprah all day.

They'll make more money that way.



When a welfare cheque pays more than a fulltime minimum wage job does... you know your economy is royally screwed.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
Maybe all minimum wage workers (burger flippers, forklift drivers, couriers, department store clerks, assembly line workers, etc) in the US should just say f*** it, quit their jobs, and sit on their ass watching Oprah all day.

They'll make more money that way.



When a welfare cheque pays more than a fulltime minimum wage job does... you know your economy is royally screwed.

Exactly and the entire economy will come to a grinding halt as all warehouses and other support industries totally shut down.

All the jobs that everyone thinks are worthless are the jobs people are doing that keep the engine of this country running.