HB2, North Carolina mandate to hate homosexuals.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

It'll backfire on them I think.

It was a bow to political pressure from people who aren't buying tickets and memorabilia. Their fanbase may not be the most intolerant grouping of folks, coming from a large cross section of America. But sports in general are kinda keep LGBT things taboo.

I disagree, this is about more than just opinions and money, there's a lot of legal problems here too. An employer is required to meet the standards and agreements made in any employment contract. If these laws make that impossible to do then of course those companies cannot operate in that state.

In addition, they have sponsor contracts which are packed with clauses making it clear that they cannot act in a way which could potentially damage the image and brand of a sponsor. They can't just ignore that and hope that everything works out fine.

If you have a company like Coca Cola involved in an event like this, that is a global brand facing risks of a boycott right there.

The average NBA fan might not give a rats behind about this law, and many might be ignorant enough to support these ridiculous laws too, but their sponsors and the companies they are dealing with have a lot more at risk and they would likely have grounds for pulling out of any sponsorship agreement, or sue after the fact if they face problems because of their involvement.

The NBA is making the right decision here, their fans won't care if it's held in NC or somewhere else. Seriously, what fan of the NBA really gives a damn about where the events are held? As long as they can watch it they don't care. In comparison, the sponsors bringing in millions of $'s certainly do care, and so do millions of Americans.

Attitudes in the US have changed, corporations and state governments see it, millions of Americans see it, the only people who don't seem to see it are the Republicans, the Christians, and the bigots who support these laws. They cannot win, the majority has moved on past this bs and they will be left behind unless they evolve. The public is not supporting this bigotry any longer and they are making that absolutely clear.

originally posted by: network dude
I don't remember anybody bringing this up before the transgender folks did, so you may want to ask them what they are after.

You don't remember it because you weren't aware of it. LGBT allies have known about it for years. And just as with marriage equality, it was the religious right and so-called "conservatives" that took action to get schools to ban trans children from the bathrooms AND got "gay marriage" banned in the first place... Only after those legal and oppressive actions took place, did LGBT and allies start suing for their equal rights.

I'm quite sure everyone in NC would have been just fine if this was never mentioned.

You would be wrong. That's like saying, "I'm quite sure women would have been just fine if not voting was never mentioned".

People who are oppressed by the society are generally the ones to make the most noise when fighting for the rights everyone else has. But that doesn't mean they started the issue.

When I first heard about HB2 it caught my attention, and I did what I normally do, I went and read the entire text of the law. And can only conclude it was to discriminate against the LGBT community and more in ways that are not yet even discussed about.

The first thing about this law that should be noted, that unlike other laws that take time to make their way through the process, the speed, from the initial concept to passing was quick, very quick. Then there is the language, it did more than just deal with bathrooms, it stripped all protections that were enacted at the local level and pretty much removed the people’s voice at the local level. A bit of hypocrisy, if you think about it. The Republicans complain loudly that the federal government and the courts interfere too much at the state level, yet here is a good example of where the state government and those who complain about such doing the exact same thing to the local level. And to add insult to injury they also removed any ability for the local level to mandate an increase in the min wage.

Now I am sorry, but if this bill was about bathrooms, then perhaps it should have been about bathrooms. They could have done it like Texas did such, demand that it be put on the ballot and have the people vote on if this should or should not be a law. But the legislature and governor of North Carolina did not do that, they took matters into their own hands and dictated to the people.

The legislature and the Governor are republican, a party that is well known for its point of view on the LGBT community, and they decided, that they could not just pass a law where it strikes at the LGBT, but instead turned around and wrote a law that is just as bad.

So now there is fall out about this law and there should be. In areas where there had been protections for one group or another, to prevent discrimination, such as the LGBT community, those are gone. Also gone are the other protections, like for veterans and those that protect against age discriminations. It now forces any and all lawsuits on discrimination, if not covered at the state level, to go to the federal court.

And this entire bit on the min wage, that was not necessary, but the state legislature thought it was, and now the very people that the government of North Carolina, will suffer because of it. If this law was about protecting the children, there are a few groups out there that should have been named and was not, that have a track record and a definite history of molesting children, and to justify the passing of this law, of ram rodding it through the process, they used the LGBT community as a scapegoat and let fear play on the minds of the people. This law, is like a bad marksman, it keeps missing the target and will hit just about everyone else.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Its wholly likely that they aren't born that way, and science may end up with the last word. if its epigenetics, then it could be that they were not born that way, but were 'pushed' in that direction after birth by something else.

I absolutely do not agree with this based on personal experience. If anything the circumstances of my life pushed me away from coming out not towards it. Going all the way back to my earliest memories I remember not feeling right about my lower anatomy and by 12 I had it figured out and put a label on it. Still fear caused me to run away from not embrace my inner feelings and I regret that to this day. I tried my best to be a man, I played sports, dressed and acted masculine and even went to war. Hell my best friend of 17 years was shocked yet supportive when I told him. It wasn't really until I got back from the sandbox that I decided that I waited long enough and it was time to be true to myself and that being a man wasn't really for me and never had been. I just survived a horrible horrible place and was grateful for that and I did not want to die before experiencing life as the woman I always knew myself to be.

I feel like this thread has completely drifted from the actual topic and into as you said "the semantics" of who trans people are and what makes us tick.
Is that really relative to the fact that a southern bible belt state governor passed sweeping legislation that allows for blatant discrimination against the LGBT community?

Surely there are cases of trans people assaulting children and others in the bathroom, right? RIGHT? These laws are to protect all the victims of the evil trans community, right?

Statiscs Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathrooms

Surprise: There are zero reported cases of this happening.

"There has never been a verifiable reported instance of a trans person harassing a cisgender person, nor have there been any confirmed reports of male predators 'pretending' to be transgender to gain access to women's spaces and commit crimes against them."

Republicans, NOT Trans People, are the ones who Cannot Control their Nasty Bathroom Habits

More Republican legislators are arrested for sexual misconduct in public bathrooms than transgender people.

So far, statistics show no trans person arrested for sexual misconduct in a public bathroom, BUT surprise, surprise (or not?), three Republicans lawmakers had been arrested for doing very naughty things in there.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I propose a new law mandating that NO Republican politician can enter any public bathroom, we need to protect the kids from these crimes after all.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What is ridiculous is that yo ushould never let your child go to the bathroom alone anyway.


When i was maybe 7 or 8 there was a kid somewhere that made the headlines. Someone had isolated him in a McDonalds bathroom and cut him up pretty bad (use your imagination). It wasn't a gay person, or a transgendered person. It was a regular person that intended to do harm. Period. And he did.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

I feel like this thread has completely drifted from the actual topic and into as you said "the semantics" of who trans people are and what makes us tick.
Is that really relative to the fact that a southern bible belt state governor passed sweeping legislation that allows for blatant discrimination against the LGBT community?

Raising a gay son, i get where you are coming from. But being a rationalist I rely more in science and empricism than anecdotes.

That said: the premise of this thread was explained. The "southern bible belt state governor" signed legislation passed by its legislature to counteract what one of their cities were doing. He may have had ulterior motives, sure....but the cover story is wholly acceptable to me.

Is not the whole core of the argument the fact they want the person to use the bathroom of their sex identified in legal documents such as a birth certificate? A transgender is someone who is transitioning, not a cross dresser, but many seem to include that or bring 'gay' rights into it.

Sorry, if you are gay and you dress as the opposite sex you are not transgender. You cross-dress. Maybe you are referred to as a transvestite.

If you truly transition, then you are a different sex. You then can appeal to the state of birth and have it changed. This is the last step. It is legal in Florida. I have been friends for many years with people who have become who they should be. You legally change. You can do it in NC...

That is what this law is for. To be honest, it protects the right of the transgender to use the bathroom not from birth but in legal documents.

I am not worried about a trans-gender, as he stated, it has already been here and they use the correct bathroom now. This is to stop people from simply saying I identify which is not correct.

I find it fascinating that everyone supporting these laws seems to have gone completely quiet on this now that it's been shown that Republican politicians are more of a danger to your kids in restrooms than any transgender person.

Where did everyone go?

Have the facts suddenly made you change your minds about those "dangerous" transgender people? Or are you just unable to carry on preaching the nonsense you were preaching and chose to run and hide rather than admit you're a fool?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I like how you just casually dismiss my experience as a Trans woman as anecdotal. Perhaps I should ask any of my girlfriends how they feel or what their experience has been being trans...oh wait it's pretty much the same as me but I wouldn't know anything about that being Trans and everything. How many Trans women do you know? I bet I know more than you, I bet I've talked with and shared experiences with more than you.

Have you discussed for hours on end with a therapist about being Trans? I have.

Note to add:

That said: the premise of this thread was explained

I know what the premise of the thread is and the direction it has gone. What I'm wondering about is why your so intent to label us mentally Ill or what have you because uuh you know the thread is about a law that got passed and affects me and mine in a not so positive manor yet you harp on about us being mentally Ill. You hide behind your 9 dollar words and self proclaimed "experience" in the psychiatric field and I just feel as if it as derailed the thread a bit.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I asked questions politely, and that were relevant to the thread. If, out of everything I asked and wanted to discuss, you want to isolate "mental illness" to take issue with, im not interested. There is a bigger picture there.

The reason I dismiss your experience: i cannot measure it. it is valid to you, as your experience. Not me. I should be no more required to see it your way, as you should be required to see it my way. So feel free to dismiss my views on the value of empiricism.

Now, to tie my questions back to the topic: if Gender Dysphoria would cause the restructuring of public bathrooms to ensure accessibility for a protected class, would we also allow someone with Body Integrity Identity Disorder to draw disability benefits, or have the disabled parking placard? Its a logical test, and I am curious what people think about it. It is completely on topic, even if it caused thread drift. For what its worth, im still interested in comments on that question.

As an aside, my "work in mental health" was 5 years as an aide in acute care. Im an accountant, and haven't done that type of work in 2 decades. Just so there isn't some misunderstanding. Out of curiosity, though...now that you have dismissed my experience do you see why someone might dismiss yours?

a reply to: Rocker2013

well, three republicans were caught doing bad things in the restroom, it's such a strong argument to ban all republicans from restrooms that no discussion needs to be had.

Next we will be compiling a list of all the LGBT people that have had their lawsuits dismissed due to HB2.

OK, now that's done.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

would we also allow someone with Body Integrity Identity Disorder to draw disability benefits, or have the disabled parking placard?

Slippery slope much? I'll bite and play your game then and my answer is no primarily based on the fact that there is a distinct difference in receiving benefits from the government and "special" parking privileges in contrast to T-folk wanting a basic dignity (using a public loo) that is provided to all as is. We are not asking for anything extra, special or monetary compensations, we just want to use the bathroom like anyone else is allowed to do including the folks with special parking privileges and the guy who thinks he is missing a leg.

Out of curiosity, though...now that you have dismissed my experience do you see why someone might dismiss yours?

To be honest I feel as if you have dismissed my opinion/experience from the get go and I'm not quite sure how I dismissed your experience either by the way.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Now, to tie my questions back to the topic: if Gender Dysphoria would cause the restructuring of public bathrooms to ensure accessibility for a protected class, would we also allow someone with Body Integrity Identity Disorder to draw disability benefits, or have the disabled parking placard? Its a logical test, and I am curious what people think about it. It is completely on topic, even if it caused thread drift. For what its worth, im still interested in comments on that question.

I think what the problem is here, BFFT, is that the entire premise of your question is kind of a stretch and a bit silly and still infers trans people are mentally ill. First of all, Gender Dysphoria is not going to cause the restructuring of public bathrooms, climate change or get Caitlyn Jenner's face on the three-dollar bill. Neither are transgender people.

I understand Rainbow's irritation and you still haven't explained your "logic test". If someone has an extreme and debilitating psychological condition and severe impairment, even if qualifying for disability benefits, they aren't going to come with parking privileges. Next, if gender dysphoria was the cause of this grave level of impairment, the treatment protocols are well established, proven effective and widely available. Not so much for BIID. When talking about dysfunction with either of these conditions, it is the symptoms of the condition that are the problem such as chronic depression, anxiety, etc.

Transgender people aren't asking for the restructuring of public bathrooms or for special bathrooms. The existing ones are quite fine. If conservative republicans and the religious right have a problem with that, build special bathrooms for them but of course require them to show their voter registration card and a note from Jesus to enter.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, three republicans were caught doing bad things in the restroom, it's such a strong argument to ban all republicans from restrooms that no discussion needs to be had.

So you agree with the idea that this law should be revoked and reapplied not to transgender people, but to Republican politicians, seeing as more Republican politicians have actually be charged with these crimes than the people they accuse of these crimes?

You support this law, so now that you know that no transgender person has been charged with doing anything like this, but THREE Republican politicians have, you agree that this law should actually apply to those Republican politicians and not transgender people, YES?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, three republicans were caught doing bad things in the restroom, it's such a strong argument to ban all republicans from restrooms that no discussion needs to be had.

Summarily banning Republican legislators from restrooms because of what THREE of them have done is about as ridiculous as banning transgender people from restrooms because of what NONE of them have done... wouldn't you agree?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
Well maybe not republican legislators, however I can think of one group that should be banned from being alone with children, as there is a history of such a group molesting and sexually abusing children, yet the government seems to tread lightly around even stopping or punishing them, even when the evidence is there fully and completely.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, three republicans were caught doing bad things in the restroom, it's such a strong argument to ban all republicans from restrooms that no discussion needs to be had.

Summarily banning Republican legislators from restrooms because of what THREE of them have done is about as ridiculous as banning transgender people from restrooms because of what NONE of them have done... wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, I think the blatant bigotry has been exposed adequately with the silence in response to this.
Funny how these extremely vocal opponents of basic rights suddenly fall silent when their own opinions are turned on them.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, three republicans were caught doing bad things in the restroom, it's such a strong argument to ban all republicans from restrooms that no discussion needs to be had.

Summarily banning Republican legislators from restrooms because of what THREE of them have done is about as ridiculous as banning transgender people from restrooms because of what NONE of them have done... wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, I think the blatant bigotry has been exposed adequately with the silence in response to this.
Funny how these extremely vocal opponents of basic rights suddenly fall silent when their own opinions are turned on them.

Funny you should say that. I was casually searching the other day for anti-conservative/right wing threads. Some PNACs and the new one Foreign Policy Initiative.

They're all like one page. No takers LOL