This is what happens when you have marxist socialist central planning.

a reply to: ketsuko

See? That is exactly the dialog I am talking about. I am fine with forcing the UAW to break into a smaller union to represent workers at each of the companies. Totally called for and fantastic suggestion.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

It's a good thing Bernie Sanders and Hilary Clinton aren't advocating anything close to what Venezuela looks like.



You're just being alarmist, and making an appeal to extremes.

People did that when interracial marriages were legalized. People were running around screaming that soon people would be marrying their cats and dogs. Well, that didn't happen.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Wow! I haven't seen that particular gotcha question since I debated my former boss. Bravo!

Here's my favorite retort:

Are you against paying your employees above the threshold poverty level so that your overproduction doesn't automatically trigger social service subsidies?

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
To what degree?

I don't know. I don't think it is doable so I have never gave it much thought.

Also, I don't really care all that much. All the isms end up being crony capitalism anyway and lately I've been thinking that that is all there has ever been.

This is an interesting news story

Why Venezuelans worry more about food than crime

The thing that stood out to me was:

"Venezuela currently has the necessary goods to feed the people, but there is a problem with distribution," says Eduardo Saman, a former commerce minister in the government of the late Hugo Chavez.

"And distribution is in the hands of companies who operate as a cartel and seek to affect the government," he tells the BBC.

Don't know how true it could be but it made me think of the Teamsters.

I am from Venezuela, I didn't saw the video because I don't want to get an ulcer today.

A few things.

Venezuela got destroyed by corruption, 140 billions got stolen, that's plenty for decades of budgets in Venezuela.

Chavez changed how the central bank works, assigned contracts directly without competition.

Chavez destroyed local production of everything to benefit imports, you can charge for an import 3 times it's price and steal the overprice.

Not happy with this the government multiplied several times the external debt.

Now this is not that socialism failed, it was a deliverate plan to destroy the country.

Chavez rebellion and eventual rise to power was in the making since the 70s, Fidel Castro got direct involvement in it after the guerrilla failed to make anything in the 60/70s.

Additionally to the agenda of destroying everything, the greed of the chavistas was too much, soon after they took power the corruption was sickening, they find out they did not had to buy cheap materials or play a little bit with the specifications here and there, they could simply get a contract lets say for example to build a road, and simply don't build it, they got pay the same.

This theft of everything destroyed the 30+ Years oldinfrastructure of the country (mostly build in the 50s), no electricity, no new roads, no private industry.

Now with no oil at 100+ the barrel, there is nothing to be done, the local production cannot be restarted and no more imports.

I know someone that worked in pdvesa during the strike, he didn't got fired and got promoted to some managing position, he worked for 3 month as a loyal worker until he find out he could sign checks, he made him a 10 million $ and no one ever saw him again.

The problem with Venezuela is that it's full of Venezuelans, it's sad but we are crappy people to begin with and Chavez changed the few values we had, you cannot travel a few hundred miles without being rob by the army 3-4 times, they just ask for money or else they just find something to fine you, if not its just common thief, they just kill you for anything. All the crime is controlled from jails, jails got hookers, discos, pools, the criminals got the ak 104 Chavez bought, RPGs, anything inside their fortress.

But that is not the socialism you could get in USA, you can get something like Europe, Venezuela model is special, like noko special, like Cuba, mostly because Cuban leaders wanted to destroy us.

Cuban flags are displayed in every army barrack in the country, we are a colony now

Here's more news from the fantastic fun of central planning in Venezuela.

Don't use your blow dryer. We didn't invest in infrastructure when oil was good.

Maduro is asking women not to use blow dryers and cutting work hours in order to try to save power because the nation's hydro-electric dam is struggling to generate enough power thanks to the drought.

My wonder is ... when they had all that oil money, why weren't they building a few backup sources of power generation instead of relying on this one power plant at the dam? Now, they have no money, no economy, no one is working normal hours unlike in the rest of South America which is also suffering from the same drought, people wait in long lines hoping they might find some toilet paper for sale ...

This is the whole "someone had $40, so we spread that out" mentality. No one thought ahead.

a reply to: Indigent

But wait ... if Cuba helped loot your country. Why is Cuba such a nasty place? Venezuela was wealthy.

But no one here is arguing for that.

In fact -- most of us are arguing that rather than spend 1 trillion on upgraded nuclear weapons, or 1.5 trillion on another 15 years in the middle east fighting an endless war against "terror," we spend our treasure on upgrading highways, bridges, water and power infrastructure, because actual, good paying jobs are the only kind of trickle-down that matters.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
Venezuela : A Marxist socialist hellhole.

I don't suppose U.S. sanctions simply for being socialist had anything to do with that huh?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Indigent

But wait ... if Cuba helped loot your country. Why is Cuba such a nasty place? Venezuela was wealthy.

Was, before it became a target of US economic warfare.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Wow! I haven't seen that particular gotcha question since I debated my former boss. Bravo!

Here's my favorite retort:

Are you against paying your employees above the threshold poverty level so that your overproduction doesn't automatically trigger social service subsidies?

Social services from the state or the community?

a reply to: Ohanka

I already explained why that doesn't quite wash.

a reply to: ketsuko

Cuba and Venezuela history is complicated, Fidel wanted Venezuela down, they did not directly stole, they got some financial help from Chavez, oil and in exchange Chavez got g2 support.

The dilapidation of Venezuela came by individual chavistas, it was not part of Chavez plan, he himself got about 2 billions, his family went from being dirt poor to the richest landlords of the country.

But everyone that had somewhat influence in the chavizmo stole, obscene amounts, and they also got deep in drug dealing, specially towards Europe. The military now is basically a drug dealing cartel, the sukois they got are used to shot down other cartel planes.

Too much greed, that's all

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

What is to stop a business from simply raising prices when the government raises the wages?

a reply to: Ohanka

That is the stupidest lie someone can ever swallow, the ones in control of Venezuela are the responsible of the demise.

USA keep buying oil all the time, one of the few paying customers of the oil.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

I don't believe in "community" social services. They tend to impose "community standards and morality" based on arbitrary values which have no basis in law or rational thought. See also: North Carolina versus common sense public restroom accommodations.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
But no one here is arguing for that.

In fact -- most of us are arguing that rather than spend 1 trillion on upgraded nuclear weapons, or 1.5 trillion on another 15 years in the middle east fighting an endless war against "terror," we spend our treasure on upgrading highways, bridges, water and power infrastructure, because actual, good paying jobs are the only kind of trickle-down that matters.

Or $12.3 trillion of QE.

www.cnbc.com...

Or $8.5 trillion lost by the pentagon?

finance.yahoo.com...

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

What does my post have to do with government wages? I'm talking about employing architects, designers, heavy equipment operators, linemen, electricians, truck drivers, and laborers to upgrade infrastructure.

If it can be wasted on nuclear weapons, it can be reallocated to American business people and labor to make what we have here better instead.

Ka reply to: onequestion
Switzerland?

Seriously?

They are not only capitalist, they are ultra capitalist.

This evidence is quite as compelling as the success story that is Switzerland. Unlike its neighbors, Switzerland is one of the most capitalist countries in existence. Its citizens only pay 8.6 percent of their personal incomes in taxes annually, and its economic climate is particularly well-suited to entrepreneurship. The Huffington Post writes that 99 percent of Switzerland’s economy is made up of small and medium-sized enterprises, which also employ three-quarters of the country’s workforce.

thefederalist.com...