Why is it so important that the Bible be true?

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TerryDon79

Actually there is abundant evidence to support it...

Just not the fairy tale parts

Most of it is fairy tales.

lol... there are a lot of fairy tales within the bible...

Though there is a lot of evidence that proves that places existed... and people from the bible...

Its truly an amazing book... Though when religion gets into it... things get right twisted

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TerryDon79

Actually there is abundant evidence to support it...

Just not the fairy tale parts

Most of it is fairy tales.

lol... there are a lot of fairy tales within the bible...

Though there is a lot of evidence that proves that places existed... and people from the bible...

Its truly an amazing book... Though when religion gets into it... things get right twisted

Yeah, places existed. Some of the people existed. The rest of it though is pure fantasy.

If you take your examples you could say that Harry Potter books would be just as good to make into a religion as they have some factual places and people.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TerryDon79

Actually there is abundant evidence to support it...

Just not the fairy tale parts

Most of it is fairy tales.

lol... there are a lot of fairy tales within the bible...

Though there is a lot of evidence that proves that places existed... and people from the bible...

Its truly an amazing book... Though when religion gets into it... things get right twisted

Yeah, places existed. Some of the people existed. The rest of it though is pure fantasy.

If you take your examples you could say that Harry Potter books would be just as good to make into a religion as they have some factual places and people.

Well no... lol

comparing the two is pointless...

one has actual history whereas the other is pure fantasy...

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TerryDon79

Actually there is abundant evidence to support it...

Just not the fairy tale parts

Most of it is fairy tales.

lol... there are a lot of fairy tales within the bible...

Though there is a lot of evidence that proves that places existed... and people from the bible...

Its truly an amazing book... Though when religion gets into it... things get right twisted

Yeah, places existed. Some of the people existed. The rest of it though is pure fantasy.

If you take your examples you could say that Harry Potter books would be just as good to make into a religion as they have some factual places and people.

Well no... lol

comparing the two is pointless...

one has actual history whereas the other is pure fantasy...

ok. Point taken lol.

I could compare the bible to some of Shakespeares work then.

ETA: Thought I should add that I actually enjoy reading Shakespeare over the bible any day of the week.

originally posted by: Akragon
whereas the other is pure fantasy...

Well at least it doesn't claim we're the descendants of jellyfish.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Thought I should add that I actually enjoy reading Shakespeare over the bible any day of the week.

The KJV reads like shakespeare

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Akragon
whereas the other is pure fantasy...

Well at least it doesn't claim we're the descendants of jellyfish.

Well that is true... LOL

though i don't recall ever reading anything that does...

Are we still talking harry potter here?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The more I look into the Bible the more I see truth and the more I learn about truth. I do not have a traditional view of the Bible being "true" but I do see the type of truth it represents as being profoundly liberating.

I believe that James and Saul/Paul were real people who were religious leaders around the time of the latest writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I think Yesha might have been the title of a man who was killed for being a threat potentially to the establishment, Judean and Roman. I think a legend grew around him that he would return and some people made a story up about him being resurrected so he could be the new dying resurrected son of God and then he became, doctrinally, God, even though he is reported to have said worship God only and only God is good which is in reply to someone saying he is good so imagine if someone called him God!! He was mad at the one who said he was good and admonished him publicly to make it known that he may be God's Son, but God is still God and he was just a man with a message of peace and goodwill.

Ronan priests hundreds of years after his death became the assemblers along with Constantine of the Bible with the New Testament and the Tanakh and possibly or later the few apocryphal books(that aren't half bad) and you have to study it for at least 3 years every day before you will have a really good grasp in the truth vs what is myth.

90-95% myth is my estimate. I won't call myself a Christian but I like religion. It's interesting stuff if you really study it. I can't wait to start studying Hindu. It's a lot like reading bible stories if you read the Holy books they have and they have a lot.

a reply to: Solarmania

Similar to what you say, i would view some of the bible content as science, there are many things in there that seemed like miracles during those times, when they may have been uncommon weather effects ,coincidences or other such things, religion was strong in the minds of those living back then, ball lightning could have been an angel or a demon, someone having a bad seizure would be mistaken as possessed, and the lack of understanding about health care led to one of the biblical plagues i'm sure, and not because a higher being felt the need to punish mortals.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Sorry. I couldn't get to your post until now. I'll break down your post a bit

I can't speak for other Muslims, but my acknowledgment of and submission to God had nothing to do with the Qur'an or the Prophets. So personally, it wouldn't matter much to me if it turned out to be fake or altered. However, I do think it's full of great advice, though I'll get more into that later.

So could god possibly be defined in a manner other than how the Qur'an is defined? Say the Christian one for instance? Or maybe a more intangible thing like the Buddhist one?

Here's the thing about the Qur'an. The vast majority of it isn't even about history. It's mostly advice for people who choose to worship and obey God, things to say in specific prayers or forms of prayer, and other revelations which could almost be considered poetic "mantras" (especially when said in the original language). Many parts of it are more like "self help" advice and/or explain the reasons for things.

Well if you want to look at as art, I'm not stopping you there. Art should be appreciated and studied. I'm more referring to the illogical elements like supernatural occurrences or god speaking to humans (when today we put those people in mental wards). What if they weren't true?

Attributing everything "supernatural" to "mental illness" is a crock of crap to me, especially after learning that one of the major points of the Age of Enlightenment was to come up with explanations that deliberately took religious concepts out of the equation.

I'm not saying strange things aren't occurring or anything. My problem is with a book written by humans is that it is presupposing what those things that are occurring are without collecting any evidence to see if it is true. Then it repeats these apparent guesses as truths. It is illogical and untrustworthy to me.

Too much logic and reason is a bad thing. Focusing too much on logic while ignoring emotions & empathy tends to lead to psychotic "solutions". After all, "Social Darwinism" and "depopulation" can be rationalized, even though they're basically euphemisms for genocide.

Yes, but by that same token, one shouldn't let their emotions override their reason. If logic and reason is screaming one thing and your emotions are telling you another just because you want them to be true, that is dishonest to yourself and could potentially be self-destructive. Reality can only be denied for so long. It will do it's thing whether you believe in it or not.

Other than #6 & #7, I don't even know we'd determine those. After all, it's just advice/guidance for people who choose to follow it. Remember, status in Islam is based on our level of piety. So the more we accept, know, and live this guidance, the "better" we are. But Islam is also voluntary, with each person having to make the decision on their own. So it's a bit different than what you're implying.

That's fair. I'm not faulting anyone on how they live their lives, but maybe it isn't necessary? Is that a possibility you've considered?

It's literally telling us how to interact with nonbelievers. If it somehow weren't true, does this mean we should interact differently with non-believers? What does an elder's knowledge of this Surah have to do with its authenticity or advice?

Well again, I'm not trying to question advice or art here. Just the things that don't add up in the historical account.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

When it comes to "Humans can't walk on water" and "water into wine" I am not sure what you are able to do when you use very advanced Quantum Physics so I am not as sure as you about that one not being possible.

Fair enough. Can you prove to me that Jesus knew Quantum Mechanics and not only that, was able to apply its concepts to achieve these things.

With the right calibration on the third eye I would not make it impossible to have a vision of a bush on fire speaking on the internal speakers not thru the ears. Sometimes I wish I could be there when humanity uses quantum physics to measure the senses in a body in real time and at the same time scan different third eye calibrations with multiple people at the same time to see what they find trying to objectively scan the unknown.

Well I'm not so sure about the third eye either. I'm not saying it isn't necessarily a THING. I'm just not so sure its exactly what humans claim it is. Scientists claim it is just the pineal gland. Others say it is the third eye. Could be. I'm not convinced though.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Krazysh0t

What if the Bible is true, and you're the one wanting it to be false? Why do you want it to be false?

Well, from the descriptions of how god behaves like a petty child, wanting attention and rewarding the most obedient (not necessarily the nicest though) followers with eternal awesomeness and everyone else (again the nicest may be included with these people) in a pit of eternal damnation ALL for the actions of a mere 60 - 70 years among EONS of eternity, I can't say I look forward to something like that being true.

Do you see the bias in your own statements now? Your inquiry is subjected to your preconceived notion that there is no possibility that the Bible is true.

Sure it's possible, but a great many other ideas and concepts that we hold true (and also help support modern society) would have to be false. Sure it could all be a great deception, but then that would make god look like even MORE of dick. Sure you could blame it all on the devil, but I don't see your god doing anything to fix this deception. He just lets everyone go on believing in lies with no corrections to said lies for over 2000 years now.

I say its true because its true, not because I want it to be.

And I can say that the sky is made of M&M's and farts unicorns, but that doesn't make it true.

You say its false because its false, not because you want it to be.

No, I say it's false because I've studied the concepts and evidence that conflicts with the narrative in the bible, which is OVERWHELMINGLY against said narrative.

So why not just end the conversation there and find something more edifying to talk about?

Suit yourself. The thread's already here. You can choose to play or not. The choice is yours.

a reply to: BoxFulder

God did not give cancer to any child or person.

Cancer is a result of the corruption of sin in the world as is all disease.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

No you say it's true because you want it to be true. If you looked at the bible with a rational mind you could see it for what it is. A collection of stories based on peoples knowledge at the time It was written.

yeah, God had nothing to do with it, right?

a reply to: mOjOm

the reason people feel as you do concerning the Bible is because you see it with spiritual blindness. there are few criteria to understanding the Bible. 1) you must be a believer, 2) you must have the Holy Ghost, and 3) you must have faith in God's word.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: deadlyhope
The bible claims that those who believe and follow Jesus can drink poison and handle venemous snakes without harm.

Under the kingdom the apostles are said they could be bitten by a snake (Paul was see Acts) and not die, the Apostles could drink poison and it would not kill them.

It claims that if you follow God and ask for anything in his name it will be done. Yet children still suffer from starvation even though I know people ask for that to stop happening in God's name.

Jesus said, "the poor you will have with you always". So there will always be people starving. Why? Because they don't work, or they are part of a corrupt govt that denies the people while enriching themselves (see many African nations). Then later we are told according to scriptures is that our prayers should be according to the will of God. that takes prayer and spiritual silence to hear him clearly.

You could help a starving child today have a meal buy giving to any charity that helps those in need. Or take food to them yourself.

Sometimes it is you that should do things you think God should do.

I lived by faith for many years (still do) and many times we prayed over an empty plate and thanked God. By our next meal we have food on our table. sometimes we ate our last meal and no food for the next but by that time we would have our next meal miraculously supplied.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

I believe in the Bible, but it has not been so much a confirmation of my faith since I have so many times changed my beliefs to the Bible's beliefs because I've found them to be true.

a reply to: Batman3000

the Bible has no beliefs in and of itself.

The word of God is truth.

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Confirmation of one's faith, is my guess. The inherent need to know that one's precious, finite time in THIS existence was not wasted on a useless endeavor.

why should astronomical insignificance hold any of us back? we are very tiny, brief, and singular, but we ARE. that is enough - if you make it enough.