Why is it so important that the Bible be true?

originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My aunt turned to scripture for the sole belief that she would be able to see her dead son and dead, husbands. Yes, that last one is plural. She's had two husbands die on her and the thought of heaven is what makes her happy. Also, she is a JW. One of the more messes up religions I've ever been witness too.

Yeah, I've known a few ex-JWs. I know what you mean.

I guess it works for her, but I'd rather she dealt with what's happening here in her living life and not rely on the "afterlife".

I agree. When you approach religion in that form, it becomes a prison. It loses its meaning.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The biggest mistake people makewwhen reading the bible is that it is literal history. Mesopotamian mythology is the source for the early books and Brahma is the basis for the character Abraham. Utanapishtim is Noah, etc. But the evil deeds commited by Yahweh so frequently show that he can't possibly be the benevolent merciful God who loves all his children. He creates evil and then punishes people who participate. Well if he didn't create evil, we wouldn't have evil, so Yahweh must be evil, even if he is capable of good.

So if you take it literally you are bound to go insane with fear of this punishing "god" who gets jealous, a human emotion that the real omnipotent creator of the Universe would have no reason for.

Yahweh was jealous of OTHER gods, so monotheistic Israel is a myth because not only did they believe in other gods, but so did Yahweh! And Israel was constantly worshipping so called heathen gods of other nations.

El was the original God of Mesopotamia and Canaan and the God of Abraham. Yahweh is his son according to Deuteronomy 32:8-9 in a correctly translated bible.

The reason the bible has to be true to Christians is because they can't deal with the fact that the world is full of liars and they are too embarrassed to admit that they have been fooled.

People that read the bible but don't take it literally and search for the deeper meaning are the only ones reading it properly.

The dopes that obsess over the false apocalyptic prophecies of Paul are the ones who need help. That guy was a straight con artist and people could just read the 4 gospels and the non Pauline epistles and the faith of Christianity would suffer none and it would actually improve.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I mean I guess that's possible. I just don't see the point of writing a story like that, when it would be easier and simpler to understand to just be direct about things.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I never wanted to to be true. My truth-seeking simply led me there.

I had no problem with death and whenever I have faced it (almost drowning in hurricane swell, health crisis from 911 dust toxicity, etc) I never thought to pray to God and was not really sure there was one.

BUT as an artist, I wanted to get some sense of the truth of this reality, because art ideally expresses TRUTH.

As I was healing myself from health crisis I realized that life is not some dystopian materialist program I had been led to believe it was by the media and some of the best education money can buy…

I was able to heal myself from issues medical science/MEDIA claimed were incurable…

once you cross the rubicon of these kinds of realizations, then you keep digging and cross-referencing and seeking… first to see how healthy I could get, how high a vibe I could achieve… invariably you hit upon the topic of Jesus Christ and other religions… you sort through them and become increasingly surprised by the scholarship, historicity, science, etc on the Bible… how profound it is, how true Christ is, especially when compared to all the other "religions"--I'm with Bob Dylan: Jesus Christ is not a religion, but a TRUTH.

“The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My mother taught me to seek all truth in the Bible.”
--Nikola Tesla

yt: Chuck Missler - How We Got Our Bible
youtu.be...

yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
www.youtube.com...
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
youtu.be...
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't think we can understand God. The Bible is part narrative and part poem… part self-evident truths and part enigma…

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."
Isaiah 55:8

The idea that God is some sort of "sky daddy" is very western thinking… the original Church is the Orthodox Church and they refer to the "mysteries" of God… how unknowable He is, but how we can know his energies…

We are "gods" and this reality is partly a test of our free will to see if we will choose to love and glorify God.

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
John 10:34

This guy talks about a lot of the poetry of the Bible and how it fits into the narrative:

yt: Chuck Missler - How We Got Our Bible
youtu.be...

a reply to: Solarmania

you might want to cross-reference your beliefs with N.T. Wright's work on paganism and the Bible… much of what you wrote is simply not true and based on lack of comprehending the context of the Old Testament v. New Testament as well as a over-simplification…from what I have found…

also interesting:

THE TWO BABYLONS, A. Hislop pdf
ia701209.us.archive.org...

"Though Brahma, according to the sacred books, is the first person of the Hindoo Triad, and the religion of Hindostan is called by his name, yet he is never worshipped, and there is scarcely a single Temple in all India now in existence of those that were formerly erected to his honor." p19

and:
“Now we have to remember that Shiva and the palestinian baal, or moloch, and saturn are identical.”
Madame Blavatsky, Isis unveiled, vol. 1, p578 (also stated in Satanic Bible)

which then requires a deep look at the history of the supernatural influence on EVERY major historical figure.


also, we need to keep in mind the profound impact Jesus Christ has had on mankind generally, in terms of treatment of children, women, education (for all), etc

"The simple record of three short years of active life has done more to regenerate and to soften mankind, than all the disquisitions of philosophers and than all the exhortations of moralists."
-W E H Lecky on Jesus’s ministry

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well that's what I'm getting at. What if you are wrong? Is this allowable?

Not really. To be a "Muslim" is literally to be a person who chooses to worship and submit to God. It's kind of hard to be a Muslim and then reject the concept of an omniscient Creator. Our idea of God is basically a powerful extradimensional inventor. The "Big Bang" would simply describe what happened after He decided to "start" this Universe. I think that's a lot more plausible than a humanoid being that has human avatars and humanoid half-"god" sons that can die.

This probably the most sensible thing I've read from a religious person concerning their faith.

Thanks. Though you have to realize that a lot of those religious historical family lines exist to this day. The "Hashemites", for example, are one branch of the Prophet Muhammad's clan (they share a common ancestor & the most notable Hashemites are Middle East royalty). And most of the Prophets like John the Baptist have shrines to this day. And Mecca has mosques that were built by the Prophet Muhammad and the early companions (though the Sauds have been demolishing them recently, grrr...).

So it's understandable that the historical accounts may have more of an effect on some Muslims. But I'm a Muslim in the original sense of the word, meaning I focus on my personal connection with God and proving myself to Him. Everything else is secondary.

In cases like that though, you could always interpret the stories as allegories and lessons instead of historical accounts then. The need for the stories to be true is lessened. Outside of the overarching idea of a deity in charge of everything. That is.

That's kind of what I'm saying about the Qur'an. If a Muslim only reads the Qur'an, which we believe to be the literal teachings of God, you'll see most of the stories for the lessons in them instead. It's literally not like the Old Testament/TaNaKh, which is written as a historical account in chronological order.

One of the longer Surahs/Revelations may have a greeting for a few lines, a few lines of warnings, a few lines of guidance, reminders of a historical person or event, more lines of guidance, then followed by rules or food for thought. The historical accounts are often brought up mid-verse (note: Though I don't mean to diminish the people in the accounts. I just want to remind you that Islam is about following the God who sent the Prophets, which is why the Qur'an focuses more on that than the specific histories).

Good advice comes from many different sources. We don't necessarily have to build religions around all of it though.

True, but here's where I think you're forgetting something big. Every single religious person, regardless of their faith, has had personal experiences that attributed to their beliefs. You seem to be looking at religious doctrines and personal experiences as isolated situations, when they actually go hand in hand.

Well in formal logic that is known as a bandwagon fallacy. Just because many people believe something to be true, doesn't necessarily make it so. It certainly helps for a compelling case, but that isn't a definitive answer, but like I said, I'm not saying these things don't exist. I just don't like when people pretend to know what they are when we haven't properly studied them to make that call.

I think you took that the opposite of how I meant it. I meant that it's not a coincidence that the majority of humans from every demographic believe in something greater than what we can sense. It's not a bandwagon effect if nearly everybody has an internal, instinctive longing to understand this "greater power" they sense. That would be like saying that since nearly all people instinctively long for physical contact, it must be a bandwagon effect.

People clearly don't agree on what that "greater power" may be, hence all of the various religions, cults, ancient alien theories, theories of interdimensional beings, and the such. But I don't think you can honestly deny that most people instinctively believe there is something greater out there.

(For the record, I like these kinds of conversations. Way better than some of the other "controversial' threads here.)

a reply to: visitedbythem

this one is interesting--he found enormous anchor stones in the 'mountains of Ararat":

Noahs Ark Found - The Original Noah s Ark Documentary - Ron Wyatt Documentary
youtu.be...

originally posted by: mouthfullofkefirgrains
a reply to: visitedbythem

this one is interesting--he found enormous anchor stones in the 'mountains of Ararat":

Noahs Ark Found - The Original Noah s Ark Documentary - Ron Wyatt Documentary
youtu.be...

Steer clear of Wyatt. The thing he found was not the Ark described by my Grandfather. I researched this in depth some years ago. Rons story about the Ark of the Covenant is a hoax as well . Follow all the leads and research what people said who were with him. I wanted to believe that story at first but had to put it down

a reply to: visitedbythem

Still waiting for that video that shows the actual "ark" that you've claimed to have watched

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: visitedbythem

Still waiting for that video that shows the actual "ark" that you've claimed to have watched

Sometime when I get a chance Ill look around for it. I work 13 hour shifts in a steel mill, and dont spend all my time on here or Utube. It sounds to me like you have alot more free time on your hands. You are welcome to have a look around while you are waiting for me to do the foot work for you. Its out there. I dont remember if it was on utube or elsewhere, but it looked like what my Grandfather described. Remember by the way, he lived in Turkey at the base of mount Ararat.

a reply to: visitedbythem

Assumptions about me don't make a lick of difference... It doesn't matter if you work in a steel mill.. or slave labor.... perhaps its the same thing but again it matters not... Im a busy man as well

the fact is you say that you have seen a video that shows this ark... I've seen many... most are hoaxes and the rest prove nothing... the gov in that area do not let people explore that area for whatever reason...

Post the video you're talking about... or admit it doesn't exist

You asked about why people want their religious scriptures to be true but then quickly made assumptions about religious people just fearing nothingness or death.


Well guess what? Some people were atheist and then as they died they saw the spiritual world and came back as believers.

Now whether or not you believe Near Death Experiences are delusions or not is not the point.

The point is, these are people who experienced the physical pain of death and the huge fear, after being healed, they lost their fear of death and yet, they still became believers.


So no, wanting religious scriptures to be true is not just about a fear or death or nothingness.


Now here is my response to the question of the Original Post

Believing in God is different than believing in scriptures but to many Christians the Bible is God. They believe in God according to what is written in the Bible; they don't believe in the Bible according to what God personally revealed to them through their personal experience.


So for many Christians, the Bible not being true would mean that God isn't true (since their entire concept of God is depend on the Bible instead of personal experience).

a reply to: mouthfullofkefirgrains

I'm not saying Abraham IS Brahma, just that the character of Abraham is based on someone who was A Brahman. I know who Brahma is in Hindu, I haven't said anything incorrect. I don't know who this Wright guy is, I'm not familiar with his work and am not interested. I simply do research and peace together what makes sense, and Abraham having a sister-wife named Sarah being based off of Brahma and his sister-wife/consort Sara-svati just makes sense. It's not an unknown, just little discussed piece of knowledge that upsets Christians more than Jews who are more aware of the Greek historians writings about the Hebrews originating in India and even Josephus wrote about it. Both call them Kalani. Semitic people are more than just Israelites and were dispersed all over the ancient world. Abraham is 70 when he is introduced in the bible, and it doesn't say where he is originally from. But his father Terah was a polytheist which was probably early Brahmanism or another form of ancient Hinduism. He doesn't name the gods he worships so that means the author didn't know, which is unlikely if Terah worshipped the Mesopotamian god of the time, the king Nimrod, who was worshipped as a mighty one. Terah had multiple gods which means that he was a worshipper of, most likely, daevas.

You could look into the Jesuits if you want more info, they know more about than anyone, whatever your opinion is of them aside, they are highly educated.

And there you have it.

a reply to: Joecanada11

you know everyone dreams of a world that is perfect no death, disease and corruption. It is called utopia.

The Bible needs to be true because God promises that in the end. A world free of sin, death, disease and corruption. No amopunt of work of man will ever eliminate death, disease and corruption.

Until then just as God said in Duet through Numbers and Jesus restated the poor you will have with your always. As long as this world has sin and its effects it will continue to be so. Men are greedy, gluttonous, murderers, prideful, self-serving and as long as sin is in them they will ocntinue tobe that way.

All the problems of this world are not God fault but men's.

God has provided a way of escape. You either take his plan of escape or die in eternal torment forever paying for your sin.

a reply to: Joecanada11

like I said he made a way to solve that which he allowed to transpire from the beginning. you either chose to take it or not.

Funny you would quote the AV to prove your point as true but deny its truth everywhere else. That is known as hypocrisy.

You will find very little about Heaven in the Bible, that is the abode of God because it has nothing to do with the here and now of mankind. You will find very little mentioned about what took place before God began his 6 days of work in Genesis one. You will find very little mentioned about what comes to this earth after Revelation 22 because if has nothing to do with the here and now of mankind.

The Bible is a Historical book for mankind, inspired and preserved of God today, it has instruction for Israel to live in the land promised to them and in the kingdom to come. It has a way to escape the shackles of our death that was brought into this world by one man and this death spread to all men, even though none of us sinned in the same manner as he did.

But as by one may came death and spread to all men because all have sinned, so by one man comes eternal life, his righteousness given to you through faith on him. Once the will of God has run its course then those who chose life through Christ Jesus will begin a new in his heaven perfect and without death, disease and corruption of sin.

a reply to: Solarmania

take a hike already. How many times must you be banned before you get the hint you are no longer welcome here.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Against possibly better judgment . . . I'll comment . . . mostly because it is such a high priority philosophically, epistomologically, etc.

1. Not only The Bible . . . but "merely" THE RESURRECTION. IF such were not true, then NOTHING MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. One may as well shoot another as feed them.

2. The propagandized-from-hell notion that there is no objective right or wrong is sheer idiocy. It's logically thoroughly inconsistent rationally and inconsistent with reality as observed.

3. The Bible presents the most testable, coherent etc. body of truth more covering the whole of reality than ever assembled.

This may be one of the better ones of many:

DR CHUCK MISSLER--CAN YOU PROVE THE BIBLE?
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This video conveys just a tiny portion of the evidence.

HIDDEN TREASURES IN THE BIBLE



Here's Chuck's bio:

www.khouse.org...

. . . .
His plans to pursue a doctorate in electrical engineering at Stanford University were interrupted when he received a Congressional appointment to the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. Graduating with honors, Chuck took his commission in the Air Force. After completing flight training, he met and married Nancy. Chuck joined the Missile Program and eventually became Branch Chief of the Department of Guided Missiles.
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Chuck made the transition from the military to the private sector when he became a systems engineer with TRW, a large aerospace firm. He then went on to serve as a senior analyst with a non-profit think tank where he conducted projects for the intelligence community and the Department of Defense. During that time, Chuck earned a master’s degree in engineering at UCLA, supplementing previous graduate work in applied mathematics, advanced statistics and information sciences.
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Recruited into senior management at the Ford Motor Company in Dearborn, Michigan, Chuck established the first international computer network in 1966. He left Ford to start his own company, a computer network firm that was subsequently acquired by Automatic Data Processing (listed on the New York Stock Exchange) to become its Network Services Division.
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Returning to California, Chuck found himself consulting, organizing corporate development deals, serving on the board of directors at several firms, and specializing in the rescuing of financially troubled technology companies. He brought several companies out of Chapter 11 and into profitable operation. Chuck thrived on this type of work.
. . . .

Chuck Missler and a sizeable list of others have tons of research data that bears on the question. However, I'll stop now. I need to get back to the 'final' edit of my own book.

"THE BIBLE IS TRUE AND ACCURATE Part 1 of 2--Chuck Missler


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BTW, I'm a Biblical literalist. I believe God said what He meant and meant what He said. And, I've found it to be literally true in my life to the degree I have treated it as so.

I think this one also bears on the original question:
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DR CHUCK MISSLER--BEYOND COINCIDENCE THE BOUNDARIES OF OUR REALITY--Part 1 & 2



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a reply to: BO XIAN

You don't see the fallacy in biblical literalism? It's one thing to take the stories at face value instead of the esoteric method but when you believe it word for word in its current form you are believing in events that didn't happen.

Hebrew/Jewish scripture is all borrowed from first, Mesopotamia and later Chaldean polytheistic myths and then the whole prophetic tradition started after the liberation by the Persians and was heavily influenced by the Sayoshant(Persian Messiah) in its Messianic lore so popular at the time of Persian then Greek empires.

Satan being the source of evil is modeled after the Zoroastrian Ahriman, before that Yahweh wasrresponsible for good and evil. Mythology and allegory sometimes trump scriptures intended meaning like Isaiah 14:12 and Ezekiel all of a sudden being interpreted as referring to Lucifer who isn't even a real biblical character in Judaism or true Christianity.

You may or may not be a Lucifer myth believer, I don't know. But if you are, you aren't a literalist so I guess no. Which is good.

But Moses, David and Solomon. Joshua and almost every character in the bible is mythological and only intended to teach lessons not history, that is the fallacy.

Do you really believe Jacob wrestled with God, and won? He forced a blessing out of God, you can't tell me you believe that historically happened.