Proof: Advanced Ancient Indian Civilization existed

Ancient India: Particles physics and cosmology

To discuss particle physics in ancient texts thousands of years ago. Is certainly not something one would expect in discussing a 7000+ year old culture. How many religious texts are there that discuss particle physics? None. Zilch. Nada. However, in the Indian texts, it is described very elaborately, even beyond sub-atomic particles to superstring theory. A lot of what will be discussed is beyond modern science.

Summary of the Vedic universe

1. There are infinite dimensions and they interpeneterate
2. The material universe is comprised of 5 main elements(mahabhuttas); tejas(fire) earth(pritvhi), vayu(wind), apas(fluid) and (ether) They are all comprised of atoms, and the atoms of sub-atomic particles. However, only fire, earth, wind and fluid are physical and can be divided. The ether is the spiritual/subtle element, and is comprised of 5 ether elements of fire, earth, wind and fluid and each comprised of subtle atoms.
4. There is an attractive and repulsive force in all atoms; force is wind.
5. All matter is nothing more than a vibration and different vibrations form different matter.
6. The universe is holographic
7. Time is an endless cycle of creation and destruction; the universe is forever oscillating
8. The universe is conscious and planets and suns are higher life forms
9. All living beings have a soul and the soul fuses with with the atomic body
10. The science of meditation is the highest science


The Material universe

The Ancient Indians stated the entire macrocosm of the universe is comprised of the micocosms of finer particles. They measured all events and phenomena, from the orbits of planets to the fluctuation of sub-atomic particles as happening in time and time itself was measured according to the suns movement relative to the atom. This was represented by a very advanced numerical system that ranges from 10^-8 to 10^421(Buddha used it) and each power was given a name. This was used some 7000+ years ago!

Here are the Sanskrit words for the numbers up to 10^53

ekam =1
dashakam =10
shatam =100 (10 to the power of 10)
sahasram =1000 (10 power of 3)
dashasahasram =10000 (10 power of 4)
lakshaha =100000 (10 power of 5)
dashalakshaha =1000000 (10 power of 6)
kotihi =10000000 (10 power of 7)
ayutam =1000000000 (10 power of 9)
niyutam = (10 power of 11)
kankaram = (10 power of 13)
vivaram = (10 power of 15)
paraardhaha = (10 power of 17)
nivahaaha = (10 power of 19)
utsangaha = (10 power of 21)
bahulam = (10 power of 23)
naagbaalaha = (10 power of 25)
titilambam = (10 power of 27)
vyavasthaana
pragnaptihi = (10 power of 29)
hetuheelam = (10 power of 31)
karahuhu = (10 power of 33)
hetvindreeyam = (10 power of 35)
samaapta lambhaha = (10 power of 37)
gananaagatihi) = (10 power of 39)
niravadyam = (10 power of 41)
mudraabaalam = (10 power of 43)
sarvabaalam = (10 power of 45)
vishamagnagatihi = (10 power of 47)
sarvagnaha = (10 power of 49)
vibhutangamaa = (10 power of 51)
tallaakshanam = (10 power of 53)


In Ancient India, numbers were not abstract concepts, though used to measure phenomena. One wonders, what were they measuring at 10^53-421! In particular, ancient Vedic Indians were very precise about time and had divided into very fine divisions, according to atoms. In the Srimad Bhagvatam, chaper 11, it is stated these divisions of time are calculated by the time it takes the sun across the smallest and largest dimensions of matter. Those divisions are:

Paramanu = Primodial atom
2 Paramanu = Anu
6 Anu = Trasarenu
3 Trasarenus = Truti
100 Truti = Vedha
3 Veda = Lava
3 Lava = Nimesha
3 Nimesha = Ksana
5 Ksana = Kashta
15 Kashthas = Laghu
15 Laghu = Nadika
2 Nadika = Muhuruta

A Muhutra is defined as 48 min. Therefore a paramanu would be 1.3*10^-6. There were even smaller divisions of time as noted
by a British physicist on BBC of 3*10^-8, who said it was surprisingly close to the life span of a certain fermion.

The time scale continues:

Divasa = 24 hours
Saptaha = 7 days
Masa = 4 weeks
Varsa = 12 months
Satabda = 100 years
Sahasrabda = 10 centuries
Deva yuga = 12,000 deva years or 4.32 million human years
Manvantra(days and nights) = 71 Deva Yugas or 306.72 million years or 613.44 million years(full)
7 Manvantra = 4.3 billion years; the age of the Earth today
1 Kapa(14 Mantravantra) 8.64 billion years; the life span of Earta
100 years of Brahma = 311 trillion years; the life span of our universe

We are currently in the 7th Mantravantra, meaning the age of our Earth according to the Hindu calender was 4.3 billion years old when the human civilization began. In 5AD Indian mathematican calculated the age of the Earth as 4.35 billion years old. The age of the Earth as estimated by scientists today with carbon dating is 4.3-4.5 billion years old. There is absolutely no way that the age of Earth can be calculated without modern scanning(or radiological) equipment and it most definitely not a coincidence as the Hindu time scale is is very precise and has a very scientific structure.

To give you an idea of what an astonishing feat this is, we'll look at other attempts at calculating or estimating the age of the Earth:

Artistotle: Aristotle believed the Earth was eternal
The Han Chinese: The Earth existed in cycle of 23 million years
Comte du Buffon(1799) : He measured the rate of cooling of a globe of an Earth he created. He esimated 75,000 years old.
John Phillips: He calculated the Earth was about 96 million years old from rock analysis
William Thompson(1862): He published calculations that the Earth was 20 million to 400 million years old. His calculations were based
on the assumption of how long it would have taken for the Earth to cool from molten state to it's current temperature.
The German physicist Hermann von Helmholtz and the American astronomer Simon Newcomb: : They calculated the age of the Earth as 100 million years based on the sun.
Bertram and Rutherford: Using early carbon dating equipments, they were able to date many rocks, the oldest rock they dates was 1.6 billion years old. This lead them to believe the Earth was a few billion years old.

Dick Teresi author and coauthor of several books about science and technology, including The God Paticle. He is cofounder of Omni magazine and has written for Discover, The New York Times Magazine, and The Atlantic Monthly. He says
"Indian cosmologists, the first to estimate the age of the earth at more than 4 billion years. They came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories. India developed very early, enduring atomist theories of matter. Possibly Greek atomistic thought was influenced by India, via the Persian civilization."

So we have an highly accurate age for the Earth and the speed of light. Both of which require modern technology, radiological/scanning and lasers, respectively. At some point we have to give in to the fact that we are not the first technological civilization. The evidence is insurmountable.

Atomic Theory

There are five main elements:

Pritvhi: Atomic elements
Vayu: The forces of attraction and repulsion
Tejas: Electromagnetic energy and photons
Apas: The fluid
Akasha: The vacuum energy

Matter in it's original and unadulerated form is called Prakriti(the female principle) and It's male principle, or the spirit, is called Purush or Prana(the all pervading life force) It comes into existence when the great breath of the parabrahman or the Brahman(creator) acts upon it. This principle is called the Svara and means the current of the life wave. The non-physical universe then divided into 5 states of ether that form the subtle and objective universe, each with their distinct vibration and function.

The first element that forms is the ether, the first and highest level of vibration and then the rest of the ethers form. Then the great breath acts upon these 5 types of ethers, and from them manifest the physical and gross elements which form space-time. The first element of the 3D universe is the ether and then forms the 2nd element, Vayu, the forces of attraction and repulsion, which then shape the the Brahmand(universe and expanding egg) into a primodial sphere or cosmic seed called Hiranya Garbha(seed of all energy) in which the sum of Prakriti in the universe is contained from which bursts in an explosion(Bindu Vishput) the third element of Tejas; electromagnetic energy. The electromagnetic energy expands and forms the fourth element of Pritvhi(atomic matter) and from Pritvhi finally forms the 5th element Apas(fluid) and this completes creation.

All matter in the universe is formed of the five Tattvas, fives modes of vibration of the life force to the finest atom and obey it's physical laws. All of Prana is made up of innumerable points of various classes depending on their state of vibrations of the Tattvas. Every point of Prana is a microcosm of the universe and is comprised of all of the 5 Maha Tatavas in varying proportions and these form the gross atoms - the atomic elements or the tattvas.

The understanding of atomic elements and their practical use was very advanced to the level of the technology of transmutation of one element to another. In the Srimad Bhagvatam an analogy is given by Srila Sanatana Gosvami, in which the transformation of a lowborn man into a brahmin is compared to the transformation of bell metal into gold by an alchemical process. Bell metal is an ancient alloy that is comprised of two metals, copper and tin. The atomic numbers of copper and tin are 29 and 50 respectively, combined they give the atomic number of 79, which IS the element Gold.

Is it a coincidence? Hardly, it specifies explicitly that it is formed from an alchemical process using bells metal.

Quotations from the Bhagvad Gita, Vedas Unpanishads discussing the above

Those who have taken refuge in this knowledge attain unity with Me, and are neither born at the time of creation nor afflicted at the time of dissolution. (14.02)

O Arjuna, My Prakriti (or the material nature) is the womb wherein I place the seed (of spirit or Purusha) from which all beings are born. (See also 9.10) (14.03)

Whatever forms are produced in all different wombs, O Arjuna, the great Prakriti is their (body-giving) mother, and the Purusha is the (seed or life-giving) father. (14.04)

Sattva or goodness, Rajas or activity, and Tamas or inertia; these three Gunas (or states) of mind (or Prakriti) bind the imperishable soul to the body, O Arjuna. (14.05)

My dear Lord, the original purusha-avatara, Maha-Vishnu, acquires His creative potency from You. Thus with infallible energy He impregnates material nature, producing the mahat-tattva. Then the mahat-tattva, the amalgamated material energy, endowed with the potency of the Lord, produces from itself the primeval golden egg of the universe, which is covered by various layers of material elements

The state of each universe at the beginning is described in Rig Veda (10-121-1) and Atharva Veda (4-2-7) by the words 'Hiranya Garbha', literally meaning 'the seed or womb of all energy'. The Hindu scriptures offer many ideas about creation, but they all agree that each universe is ultimately dissolved and transformed into another one. This transformation point is the 'Big Bang' (known as Bindu Visphot) which happens periodically and thus sets the process of endless rhythmic cycles of expansions and contractions ('Big Crunch') of the universe. In this process, time is also initiated as part of that continuum.

The universe turns into minute (subtle) form at the time of dissolution and takes gross form at the time of creation.(Gita, 9-7)

There was a universe before this one and there will be a, universe after this one. (Rig veda, 10-190-3)

The Shiva Purna:

1. The goddess said: My Lord Mahadeva, the god of gods, be kind to me, and tell me the wisdom that comprehends everything.
2. How did the universe come out? How does it go on? How does it disappear? Tell me, O Lord, the philosophy of the universe.
3. Said the god: The universe came out of tatwa or the tatwas; it goes on by the instrumentality of the tatwas; it disappears in the tatwas; by the tatwas is known the nature of the universe.
4. Said the goddess: The Knowers of the tatwas have ascertained the tatwa to be the highest root; what, O God, is the nature of the tatwas? Throw light upon the tatwas.
5. Said the god: Unmanifested, formless, one giver of light is the great Power; from that appeared the soniferous ether (akasa); from that had birth the tangiferous ether.
6. From the tangiferous ether, the luminiferous ether, and from this the gustiferous ether; from thence was the birth of the odiferous ether. These are the five ethers and they have five-fold extension.
7. Of these the universe came out; by these it goes on; into these it disappears; even among these it shows itself again
8. The body is made of the five tatwas; the five tatwas, O Fair One, exist therein in the subtle form; they are known by the learned who devote themselves to the tatwas.
9. On this account shall I speak of the rise of breath in the body; by knowing the nature of inspiration and expiration comes into being the knowledge of the three times.
10. This science of the rise of breath, the hidden of the hidden, the shower of the true Good, is a pearl on the head of the wise.
11. This knowledge is the subtle of the subtle; it is easily understood; it causes the belief of truth; it excites wonder in the world of unbelievers; it is the support among unskeptical people.
12. The science of the rise of breath is to be given to the calm, the pure, the virtuous, the firm and the grateful, single-minded devote of the guru.
13. It is not to be given to the vicious, the impure, the angry, the untruthful, the adulterer, and him who has wasted his substance.
14. Hear, thou goddess, the wisdom which is found in the body; omniscience is caused by it, if well understood.
15. In the swara are the Vedas and the shastras; in the swara the highest gandharva; in the swara are all the three worlds; the swara is the reflection of the parabrahma.
16. Without a knowledge of the breath (swara), the astrologer is a hose without its lord, a speaker without learning, a trunk without a head.
17. Whoever knows the analysis of the Nadis, and the Prana, the analysis of the tatwa, and the analysis of the conjunctive susumna gets salvation.
18. It is always auspicious in the seen or the unseen universe, when the power of breath is mastered; they, O Fair One, that the knowledge of the science of breath is somewhat auspicious.
19. The parts and the first accumulations of the universe were made by the swara, and the swara is visible as the great Power, the Creator, and the Destroyer.
20. A knowledge more secret than the science of Breath, wealth more useful than the science of Breath, a friend more true than the science of breath, was never seen or heard of.

All of existence is the perpetual oscillation of the current of the life wave. This is what the word "Aum" which was the original sound that began creation symbolizes. And therefore the science of breath which mimics the principles of the universal life force is the highest science, because that links to the universal forces and one becomes one with this universal energy. This science is the highest ideal of yoga and is called Pranyama - the control of life force. Ancient Indians understood the science of Pranayama to such an advanced degree that they developed a special science of medicine called Ayurveda to balance peoples vibrations with herbs, meditation, aromas, oils to deal with all kinds of diseases and problems. As well as other esoteric sciences like Astrology and Vaastu Shastra(Feng Shui)

The Vedic model of creation has not been explained by any single scientific theories, however combines and links many modern scientific theories on creation. All that is lacking from modern theories is the discovery of life force and consciousness science.

1. Superstring theory: Superstring theory postulates that all matter is simply the vibrations of quantum strings

Vedic theory postulates that all matter IS simply the vibrations of a life force.

2. Symmetry and Inflationary theory: Symmetry and Inflationary theory postulates that in the beginning of creation there was symmetry of the four fundamental forces and they were combined into one single unified force and existed as a singularity. At about 10^-43 Plank time, gravity broke, the first of the spontaneous symmetry breaks and then the other forces followed and the singularity inflated and exploded.

Vedic theory postulates that ether was the first gross element, that then the 2nd element Vayu(the forces of attraction and repulsion) which formed the primodial seed that contained all matter, energy and space(singularity) and then exploded into Tejas(electromagnetic energy) which later condensed to form Pritvhi and life formed after Apas(fluid)

3. Quantum Vacuum theory: Quantum vacuum theory states that the universe was in a constant state of flux of virtual particles and then due to unknown effects manifested into a singularity.

Vedic theory postulates that the first elements that were created were the subtle ethers and they then manifested as the primodial seed.

Also note that the the shape of the universe is described as spherical. Now, this either means it literally as a sphere like a planet. However, this would contradict the Vedic theory of an infinite multiverse. The theory would only work if it was describing hyperspace:

Hyperspace and the multidimensional universe

The Vedas state the universe is infinite and full of infinite universes. Yet also states that the universe is spherical and was created in finite time. It would be therefore impossiblle for the universe to be full of infinite universes, unless, they co-existed within a superverse of multiuniverses, a multidimensional universe.

Multidimensionality in Vedic texts is described in the Srimad Bhagvatam, Brahma Samhita and Bhagvad Gita. As follows:

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in Himself, the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane. [SBS 5.32].

He is an undifferentiated entity as there is no distinction between the potency and the possessor thereof. In His work of creation of millions of worlds, His potency remains inseparable. All the universes exist in Him and He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms that are scattered throughout the universe, at one and the same time. Such is the primeval Lord whom I adore [SBS 5.35].

Now, the above may not necessarily imply multi-dimensionality. It could also mean that Krishna is the life force and he is omnipresent. However, we will see that it does actually mean multiple dimensions. The dimensions we see are limited to our sensory or perceptive abilities. If we were 2D beings(i.e. cartoons) and saw a 3D object such as a sphere, all we would be able to see is a circle. In the same way we the spheres that we see in our 3D universe would be seen differently by 4D beings. This is illustrated in the Bhagvad Gita where Krishna gives Arjuna divine vision to perceive dimensions of the universe he never knew existed and to see his real divine form:

Before revealing this form to Arjuna, Krishna said,

O best of the Bharatas, see here the different manifestations of Adityas, Vasus, Rudras, Asvini-kumaras and all the other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things which no one has ever seen or heard of before.

O Arjuna, whatever you want to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything--moving and nonmoving--is here completely, in one place [BG 11.6-7].

Another such instance of Krishna revealing dimensions to people was to his foster mother, Yoshuda as a child. When she saw him eating mud, she scolded him and told him to open his mouth. When he did, she saw within his mouth the entire universe and she fainted.

Krishna represents god himself and he has access to every location and can reveal any location in the universe from any point, because he is the universe. This would imply that if the highest perception can see the universe and access every universe then beings of varying perception would would have access to lesser and lesser world. A 10D being would be able to see more of the universe than a 3D being would.

This is what the Srimad Bhagvatam says. There are 7 Lokhs or words, the lunar mansions, the stars, the planets, the subterrarian planets, the subtle realms, the spiritual worlds and all are inhabitated by life forms and at the highest dimensions; Mother Earth, the Sun and Moon are actually conscious beings and that is why they are worshipped by this very advanced vedic culture.

In the next post we will discuss some archeological evidence of traces of this civilization.

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
What difference does it make though? If there is or is not proof of it is kind of interesting, but what is the big deal?
If all these groups are lying, what is their motive?
It is all just sharing ideas, and I try not to take it too seriously.
Of course, the sight of a machine gun definitely makes me feel I should always be alert.

Don't mind OFS Black Guard. He is renowned on this forum for being the extreme skeptic(without a clue) If he wasn't saying the above, then there would have been something wrong. At one point he proclaimed a UFO in a newspaper article on the 1942 air raid in Los angeles as a "obvious photoshop hoax" because after distorting the original photograph with an array of filters - it seemed unreal, and he knew better because he was a photoshop expert However, it was actually real and confirmed by an article from FEMA. So, kindly giggle to yourself when he talks about logic and reason.

In any case, whether this proof convinces someone or not, it's a very interesting and informative topic, so replies like OFS asking certain members not to respond is just immature and insensitive. However, I don't expect more from him anyway. Perhaps he would like to show me how the entire Indian scientific, government, archeological and scholary community are lying. As well as the professor of Lousiana state university, a lone NASA scientists and other Sanskrit Scholars.

It's interesting how people are willing to accept western history as the gospel truth. Yet, seem to have double standards with Indian history, which fortunately has enough records for us to relearn it's history. It's just a matter of educating ourselves about it. It just seems some people are simply too bigoted to want to care. Well, that's fine with me, because if the experts care, what does it matter if some people who have made it a hobby out of doubting everything that does not fit their predispositions, don't.

As long as some people are appreciating my hard work in researching and compiling and documenting this evidence. It's all fine

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Daedalus3


wow..what a thread..i just stumbled upon it now..
The reason why India was invaded so many times may not directly point to the "weakness" of the Indian culture, it may indicate a sense of tolerance as opposed to barbaric uprisings..Maybe lives were of more value than 'territory' and 'status'..a clause we should pay much more heed to today..
The point about accepting a foreigners view on India, I'm confused..you mean the 'britishers propounded the aryan theory' bit or the fact that 'an ancient advanced indian civ existed' bit ..
And who are these "experts" who have "made up their minds"..and what is their conclusion...?

Also another question..How many Indians on this forum and how many of those stay in India...??

Nobody sem sto have answered my questions??
shy indians onboard ATS??

Somebody was talking about nukes leaving a lot of traces..not that I'm taking sides..I am actually here to do a census on the indian pop on ATS ..
But what about atmospherically detonated nukes(neutron bombs)..?
They wouldn't any traces except background radiation right??..

Daedulus, I apologise for not answering your questions before, I guess your post got lost somewhere in the thread. Here is a list of the experts and research centers on the Vyaamanika Shastra alone:

Dr. K. Ramchand, Director, The Centre for Airborne Studies.
Dr. T.N. Prakash, panel coordinator AR & DB.
Wg.Cdr. A.E. Patrawalla, Honorary Secretary, AeSI, Bangalore.
Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, Eminent Scholar on Indian Philosophy, Bangalore.
Dr. V. Prabhanjanacharya, Professor of Sanskrit and Illustrious scholar on Indian Philosophy.
Dr. P. Ramachandra Rao, Director, NML, Jamshedpur.
Air Cmde. P.S. Subramanian. V.M, Bangalore.
Dr. B.G.Siddarth, Director Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.
Dr. Maheshwar Sharon, Dept. of Chemistry, IIT, Bombay.
Dr. V.K. Didolkar, Sri. Deepak Deshpande, Sri. M.K. Kawadkar.
Dr. R. Ganesh, Eminent Scholar on Indian Philosophy, Bangalore.
Dr. K.H. Krishna Murthy, Former Professor of Ayurvedic Medicine, Pondichery Medical College, Bangalore.
GP. CAPT. M. Matheswaran VM. Indian Air Force.
Wg. Cdr. S.S. Yegnaswami, Bangalore
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., Bangalore.
Sri. N.G. Sheth, Bombay.
Oriental Research Libraries, Pune and Baroda.
Sri. Shraddhalu Ranade, Aurabindo Ashram, Pondichery.
Veda-vignana Parishat, Bangalore.
Sri. S. Krishna Murthy, Director, Public Relation, ISRO, Bangalore.
Dr. Upendra Shenoi, Bangalore.
Indian Institute of World Culture, Bangalore.
National Metallurgical Laboratory, Jamshedpur
Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.
Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay.
Indian National Science Academy, INSA
Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote

Other references:

Dr Talpede
Dr. V. Raghavan, Indian Institute of Culture 1956.
Swami Dayanada
Sir Sayajirao Gaekwad, the Maharaja of Baroda and Justice Govind Ranade and was reported in “The Kesari” a leading Marathi daily newspaper. They were witnesses to the first flight in Bombay by Dr Talpede Ion Engine.

Foreign researchers:

Italian scientist Dr. Roberto Pinotti
Dr. Richard L.Thompson
Dr. Subhash C Kak, Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Louisiana State University


I am not sure if you aware, but the Indian IITS(institutes of techology) are the most pretigious in Asia and one of the best in the world. They are the equivalent of MITs of US. All of the researchers above, have excellent credentials and further it is a research fully endorsed by the highest departments of government and military technology.

Really, all this research into the ancient Sanskrit documents on aeronautics of science is the Indian equivalent of MIT, NASA, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge universities and the US defence research labs working on something.

And the witnesses who say the Taplede Ion's engine flight, are the equivalent of the US president, supreme court justice and new york times testifying.

This is all real my friend. I know it is very hard to suddenly just forget about everything you learnt about history in an instance, due to what some guy on the internet has written. But, can you really deny al ofl this proof? It's insurmountable.

Further, while the VS itself is amazing by itself, there is even evidence in known Vedas, Bhagvad Gita, Upanishads, Purans and Sutras written in India some 2600 years ago.

There is even accepted history of brain surgery and plastic surgery in Ancient India. There is accepted history that the modern decimal system originated in ancient India. There is accepted history that ancient Indians had a mathematical system on binary numbers and how to represent text as binay.

There is proof of advanced metallurgical technology from the rust-proof Iran pillar of Delhi and the evidence of bronze, iron, tin, zink and even alloy manufacturing. I will cover this later.

The Sanskrit language itself is not lying, it is the mother language of all the Indo-European languages, something Hitler recognized when he declared Aryans as the master race.

It seems obvious now that we have all descended from the same master race, the Aryans of the Vedic times, and this ties all the loose ends of how so many religions have similar stories and "myths"(Christ, flood etc) and why nearly every Indo-European language can be traced to Sanskrit. Not only that but pre-Mohammed Arabia was also part of the vedic culture. I will prove this in my next writing.

This only makes me think, that "Bharat" described in the texts was perhaps more of a global empire, encompassing all the world, rather than just based in the Indian subcontinent.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Not sure if this is the correct Epic? Anyways, I am taking a screewriting class, and I need to do a screenwrite on a 90 minute film from a short story, etc. After reading some of this Epic, I want to write a screenplay on this.

Now here's my problem. There are so many links and books on this Epic, that I am not sure what is the best thing to use to get the original story. I only speak and read English, so I know that takes away from the original story, but please work with me. So I need to know, is there a book that is true to the story, or just a plain website with the entire Epic written? And once I get the reference, what part of it could I use that might make up a 90 minute film that might have good examples of character development, climax and all the other mumbo jumbo I might need for a good screenplay. Please someone, give me a starting point.

Originally posted by steggyD
Not sure if this is the correct Epic? Anyways, I am taking a screewriting class, and I need to do a screenwrite on a 90 minute film from a short story, etc. After reading some of this Epic, I want to write a screenplay on this.

You are kidding me right?

Mahabharatha is the longest epic in the world, Homer doesn't even come close.

There used to be a telivised series that ran for three years, each sunday one hour. Assuming about 20 minutes was for ads, that would still be too long.

The epic has lot of small stories in the book, apart from the main characters there are supporting characters who have their own stories, notably Lord Krishna's.

I hate to do this, but writing a screenplay on this isn't a good idea, especially since the limit is only 90 minutes.

I would suggest to you about writing a screenplay on one of the stories in the book, if you are that interested in it.

Surf

daedalus, I am third generation non resident indian. My great grandparents on both sides of the family were originally from India, they went to South America as indentured laborers and never returned.

steggy, surf is right, there is no way to cover the entire Mahabharat in 90 minutes. You can try specific stories from it though, like the birth of Krishna, Arjun's and Krishna's encounters, the story of Draupadi etc..

Actually I think you might be able to compress and condense the Ramayan into a 90 minute screenplay but you'll be leaving out many specifics and the story will be fairly generalized.

Originally posted by steggyD
Not sure if this is the correct Epic? Anyways, I am taking a screewriting class, and I need to do a screenwrite on a 90 minute film from a short story, etc. After reading some of this Epic, I want to write a screenplay on this.

Now here's my problem. There are so many links and books on this Epic, that I am not sure what is the best thing to use to get the original story. I only speak and read English, so I know that takes away from the original story, but please work with me. So I need to know, is there a book that is true to the story, or just a plain website with the entire Epic written? And once I get the reference, what part of it could I use that might make up a 90 minute film that might have good examples of character development, climax and all the other mumbo jumbo I might need for a good screenplay. Please someone, give me a starting point.

Ever since I read the Mahabharata. I thought to myself it's the perfect story for a screenplay. There are thousands of characters and each have their own backstory, goals and conflicts and story itself has many turning points. There is only one English translation online and I would imagine it would be sufficient for your short: story: www.sacred-text.com

How you would adapt this into a 90 min film? Well there is currently a big film in pre-production in India on the Mahabharata and the director has said it is not possible to condense the entire plot into a single 3 hour film. It will take a triology(each film 3 hours) to actually cover it all. So, I doubt 90 min will be enough to cover the Mahabharata. It would be better you set it in the big war in the end then. That by itself may require 220 min.

I was myself going to write a screenplay on the Mahabharata, but, I did not have the confidence too. Mahabharata is a very difficult story to adapt for a screenplay, but if you adapt it well, it would turn out to be a brilliant screenplay.

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Well there is currently a big film in pre-production in India on the Mahabharata and the director has said it is not possible to condense the entire plot into a single 3 hour film. It will take a triology(each film 3 hour) to actually cover it all. So, I doubt 90 min will be enough to cover the Mahabharata. It would be better you set it in the big war in the end then.

I was myself going to write a screenplay on the Mahabharata, but, I did not have the confidence too. Mahabharata is a very difficult story to adapt, but if you adapt it well, it would turn out to be a brilliant screenplay.

Really? There have been lot of films based on Mahabhartha and at least one TV series. Another one?

Never heard of it.

Making a Indian and American like the American version of screenplay would be very very tough. And to fully understand the story, you have to have a basic understanding of the Indian culture.

Surf

[edit on 2/1/2005 by surfup]

Well, yes, according to some production news. I cannot say what is the status on this project however.

Rajkumar Santoshi is also planning a trilogy based on the Hindu epic text, The Mahabharata. Much like what Peter Jackson is doing with "Lord of the Rings", Santoshi will shoot the trilogy at the same time but will release the movies within one-year gaps. The film will be a multi-starrer and its budget is expected to be really huge with a large portion of it attributing to (hopefully) state-of-the-art FX. Don't hold your breath for this one yet folks, as thing are just being worked out right now - the films will not be released till 2003 at the earliest.

Source:www.aintitcool.com...

I did ask what part of the Epic would be best to use. Yes, I realize it is long and don't plan on doing the entire thing. So, I was only asking for a good story to do.

Originally posted by steggyD
I did ask what part of the Epic would be best to use. Yes, I realize it is long and don't plan on doing the entire thing. So, I was only asking for a good story to do.

I cannot remember all the stories of the top of my head. However, the one had the most impact on me, and the one I found the most intense and nail-biting was the gambling game they played the first time at Hastinapur.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Originally posted by steggyD
I did ask what part of the Epic would be best to use. Yes, I realize it is long and don't plan on doing the entire thing. So, I was only asking for a good story to do.

I cannot remember all the stories of the top of my head. However, the one had the most impact on me, and the one I found the most intense and nail-biting was the gambling game they played the first time at Hastinapur.

You mean the naked scene? Just kidding.

If I were you I would go with Krishna's story from birth till the end of story, because first the name is well known even to foreigners and second it has all the things needed for a good movie and you can quite literally cut the his childhood and adolescence and not loose the story, third it doesn't require a whole lot of background to get the story, it is the classic tale of good vs. bad.

Surf

My big question is, and I'm sorry if this was already asked, I don't have time to read through every artical, if these ancient Indians really did have advanced technology, why isn't any of it still around? First off, it seems obvious to me that there would still be some basic working remains of their old technology. Instead, we find primative technology. If they were indeed advanced, they would have spread it to other cultures. Other cultures would have remains of this stuff. Wouldn't the other cultures also write about it in THEIR history? Think of 1,000 years from now. If a future archeologist was digging around trying to find existence of our advanced techonology, our history and that of other countries would concur. For example, the war in Iraq. It would be written in books all over the world, not just one country. How would it be possible for ALL of this technology to disappear? Did EVERYONE die in some large scale attack? I mean, if America got blown up, that wouldn't eliminate every shred of evidence anyone had that America was once a super-power.

Also,
What if 1,000 year from now, all the future archeologists found while digging in our remains were some old sci-fi books? Those our written to sound factual. What if they dug up "Harry Potter", or some sort of sci-fi robot book.

[edit on 2-2-2005 by Herman]

Ancient India: Archaeological evidence

Abstract

The evidence I will present in this post is the hardest proof of this civilization(as in solid facts), these are actually remnants of the Vedic civilization, to be more precise, the prehistoric Harapan civilization(7000-15,000+ years ago) It is very fortunate that they have survived. You will note that everything is consistent with what has already been explored in this topic, in particular advanced engineering and metallurgical technology. The Aryan invasion theory holds that the Harapan Civilisation was a primitive tree-dwelling civilisation. As we will see this is absolutely bogus, even with accepted evidence.


As new archaeological evidence has shown the Indus civilisation could be older than 10,000 years old, putting it in the stone age. The Mahabharata from astronomical dating is generally agreed to have occurred 5100 years ago. The lost city of Dwarika has been carbon dated to be some 7000-10,000 years old. The Ramayana, though theological date puts it to an amazing 1 million years ago, is at the very least based on the Mahabharata, 9000-15,000 years old.

Metallurgy

We have already seen a very advanced knowledge of chemistry and materials technology discussed in the Sanskrit texts. Let's recap:

Vyaamanika Shastra:

The Vyaamaanika Shastra gives very technical information on the fabrication of many types of alloys and materials. Indian scientists and chemists from the most prestigious institutes in Asia have claimed to have created 5 of these materials, including Chumbakamani, Paragrandhika-drava:


The following is a report from an Indian scientist Dr. C.S.R. Prabhu:

Tamogarbha loha: Already produced in the laboratory, light in weight, black in color, found to be resistant to acids. Displayed high level of absorption for laser light (from red Ruby laser - as observed by Prof. Robert Anderson of San Jose State University during his visit to India in December 1991). Some chemical and other properties found to be unique-patentable new alloy. This alloy was used in 'Tamo Yantra' in the Vimana Shastra for the purposes of absorption of light escaping from a photochemical reaction which resulted in absorption of light, thereby generating 'darkness'.

Pancha Loha (not the Panchaloha for making idols): A copper alloy, which is highly malleable and also highly corrosion resistant to moisture and salt (NaCl) water. Already produced and characterised to possess golden yellow Color (Hema Varnam). High machinability and on microstructure analysis found to be single-phase alloy with high malleability ('mridulam') and not found listed in ASM Reference (1988).

Arama Tamra: A copper alloy zinc, lead and iron of light absorption. Already produced and possesses golden yellow to reddish tinge. Brittle, light and hard, on microstructure analysis found to be two-phase alloy. Very hard, Young's modulus 16.9 (described in Sanskrit text as 'Dridham') not listed in ASM Reference (1988).

We also see evidence of Silicon extraction from Mica for use in photo-electric cells.

Kanada and his atomic theory:

Kanada, 2600 years ago, who in turn attributes his knowledge to Vedic times, explains modern atomic theory, Newtonian mechanics and explains how elements and molecules are formed and talks about chemical reactions.

Srimad Bhagvatam:

Srimad Bhagvatam gives an analogy of the transformation of a "low caste man" into a Brahmin is like transforming bells metal into gold by an alchemical process. Bells metal being an alloy of copper and tin, when the atomic numbers are combined, is indeed gold. No, not a coincidence.

Archaeological evidence for Advanced Metallurgical technology in the Harapan civilisation

Now, for those of those who are not aware of intricacies of the metallurgical technology. Most Metals are not naturally occurring, they have to be extracted from ores by chemical processes. The ores are obtained from mines, then the ores have to be smelted in a furnace, which requires at least some practical chemical knowledge. The more advanced metals of brass, zinc and steel require very complex processes. The metallurgical ages are usually identified by the three-age-system of stone, bronze and iron age, which basically means when a civilisation began manufacturing and implementing these metals. The dates assigned to these ages are 6000BC and prior(stone age), 4000BC(Bronze) and 1000BC(Iron) and while not recognised as an age, Zinc was only manufactured in China in 15AD. The first corrosion proof technology appeared in the early 20th century with stainless steel.

There is evidence of all of these metals(including Zinc) being manufactured and refined at an industrial level and used in Ancient India, in what we call the stone age.

The Sanskrit text, Arthshastra ,describes how certain metals were extracted. Tutthodgata, as in silver, was extracted from Tuttha which is refined 17 times to obtain it. Brass as Arkuta and liquid ore and refers to burning of a metal to produce an eye salve or zinc. The text also discusses how the director of Mining of metals were suppose to examine old mines and locate new ones by analysing the physical properties of ores and then to establish factories for copper, lead, tin, brass etc.

The Minerals or Rases were divided into two categories: Maha(superior) and upda(subsidary) The Maharasa were known as Abhra(Mic), Vaikranta(Kimberlite dust), Masika(Pyrites), Vimala(Chalcopyrite), Adrija(Bitumen), Sasyaka(Copper Sulphate) and Capala(Zinc Carbonate) while mercury was called Rasendra - the king of the minerals. Mercury was a very important metal in ancient India and was also known as Amritadhatu(metal of immortality) and Indians claimed through alchemy elixirs could be produced from it.

Brass was called Riti or Ritika(possibly derived from the sanskrit word Harita or yellow) In the texts of Manu, Yajanvalkya and Patanjali bronze is called Kamsya. This is from period of 600BC where the first evidence of Indian brass is found.

In the Rasaratnasamuchhaya a very famous Indian text on alchemy composed in 13AD, mentions many ancient Indian(pre christian era) alchemists like Nagarjuna, Govinda. It also mentions many ancient types of instruments, furnaces, bellows, retorts for extracting the metals from the ores and smelting. The Tirakpatana yantram(distillation by descending machine) was used for distillation purposes. It also mentions an ancient zinc production factory at Zawar(Rajahstan; located 24° 21' N; 73° 41'E ) and situated about 40km of Udaipur. In the early 1980's it was excavated and studied by the British Museum, MS university and Hindustan Zick limited. Zinc smelting was done in small cylindrical retorts (about 30 cm long and 10 cm in diameter) and the vapour was distilled from the charged retorts by placing them in the furnace in a vertically inverted position. The furnaces were found in two parts consisting of a zinc vapour condensation chamber at the bottom and a furnace chamber at the top. These are separated by a perforated terracotta plate measuring 65 X 65 X 20cm. As many as 36 charged retorts were arranged inverted vertically on the perforated plate. From the condensation funnel tubes, luted with retorts, which were inserted through the perforated plate, zinc vapour was collected in vessels in the lower chamber and condensed.

High quality zinc alloys and zinc sheets have been found in ancient India. At Pratkashe, two copper objects containing 25.86 and 17.75% ink has been found in 2000BC. In the prehistoric Harappan civilisation copper bronze artefacts to 6% zinc were found.

About 20 miles north of Rawalpindi of modern Pakistan, brass objects(two bangles, one vase and pot) dated to around 300BC contained 34.34% of zinc. A chariot found in the lost city of Dwarika(4000-6000BC) contained 10.68% zinc. Similarly, scores of brass items of items of Buddha, coins and caskets had some 17-25% zinc.

In fact an entire roll of sheet zinc at Agora in Athens in 300-400BC was found. And the Greeks were not producing zinc, and as we have ample evidence that it was produced in India, it can only be assumed they obtained these sheets from India.

Zinc was not the only advanced metal Ancient India was producing. It was also producing wootz steel and this material was not being studied, let alone manufactured, till the 18th and 19th century in modern times. Wootz steel is an advanced material ultrahigh carbon steel exhibiting properties such as superplasticity and high impact hardness.

Dr Helenus Scott sent samples of Indian steel to Sir J. Banks, President of the British Royal Society with this note:

I enclose in one of the boxes a specimen of a kind of steel which is called wootz and is in high esteem among the Indians. It appears to admit of a harder temper than anything we are acquainted with. I should be happy to have your opinion of its quality and composition. It is employed here for covering that part of gun locks which the flint strikes, for cutting iron on a lethe, for chissels for cutting stone, for files and saws and for every purpose where excessive hardness is necessary.

The Iron Pillar of Delhi that stands outside of the ancient Mughal Qutub Minar tower in india was erected around at the most 400AD, some say as old as 600 BC. Historians do not agree completely. It is 6.5 tonnes, 22 feet high(+ 1.5 feet inside the ground) and with about 12.5 inches in width and is made of iron. For more than 1600 years it has not rusted at all and the top is finely polished and it baffles scientists. It was even struck by a cannon by a Mughal king and it is still rustproof. Not even modern metallurgists have been able to produce something like this. The first corrosion proof alloys was only produced in the early 20th century with stainless steel.

Many theories have been propounded by scientists to explain the rustproof state of Iron pillar, humidity, temperature stabilised by high mass to even the fact that it was coated with butter. Yet, the truth lies within the pillar's composition. The Iron pillar is a living testament to the mastery of ancient Indian metallurgical science.

Engineering

The Aryan Invasion theory concocted by colonial historians speaks of a tree-dwelling primitive civilisation. We now know this not to be true from the advanced industrial level metal manufacturing above. Likewise, cities were not mud huts, but highly advanced and developed urbananized planned cities, precisely mapped out onto a grid to +/- 1.107mm and with modern plumbing and underground sewage systems and streets at right angles to each other and boulevards. Multi-storeyed houses built from bricks, with many rooms, including a bathroom. There were swimming pools/public baths and roads and bridges. There were stadiums and theatres and free hospitals - inhabited by a very flourishing, artistic, hygienic, peaceful and united society with sexual freedom.

When archaeologists excavated India in 1920 they discovered more than 1500km of modern urban civilisation, stretching from Punjab(Pakistan) to Gujurat(India) The greatest cities, Harappa and Mohenjadro, lied opposite to each over on the river of Ravi in Punjab. These cities had a network of underground piped-water, drainage and canal systems that connected to each home. Although not known, it is possible this was water was pumped to peoples homes like modern plumbing systems. Archaeologists say they are more advanced than most Middle eastern and Modern Indian sewage systems. Likewise this civilisation had a very advanced irrigation system, some say, even more irrigated than modern India.

Therefore it can be said very easily that ancient Indian engineering was very advanced. This may shed some light on the construction of the Pyramids, which are also remarkable feats of engineering. Engineering was very important in India and it evolved into an esoteric art form of constructing buildings and cities based on sacred geometry and alignment to stars and planets (again, very much like the Pyramids) There are many Sanskrit texts discussing engineering. This was a science called Vaastu Shastra or the science of material objects. In sanskrit the word 'engineering' is Shilpa and an 'engineer' is Sthanpati:

According to the Sanskrit text Bhrugu Samhita, shipa means:
Fabrication of objects of many kinds, different type of machines, their designs, i. e. mechanical engineering, metallurgy as well as different appliances and construction of all kinds of residential buildings are included in the science of shilpa.

All Bhrugu, Kashyap and Mayamata give the essential characters of an engineer (sthapati). According to Mayamata Ch.5:

An engineer should have knowledge of all branches of engineering and capable of laying foundation of any project. He should have adequate ability, not more or less. He should be compassionate and kind hearted; he should neither hate nor be jealous of any body. He should be always alert and creative. He should be expert in mathematics, history. He should be truthful and having control over his senses. He should know the art of drafting and drawing, and also topography and meteorology of the land and the country. He should be a good employer and should not be covetous. He should be healthy, avoid committing mistakes and also not afflicted by seven bad habits

Another vaastu text Shilpsamhita also gives us the detailed information of areas and activity shilpa shastra typically covered. The concept of town planning was well developed as can be seen in the passage of Shilpa Samhita.

According to this text the planner had to take into consideration various vocations of the society. He had to select appropriate, suitable, safe and productive land for the development of the city or town. Detailed consideration was given for the construction of houses of kings, learned people, warrior class, merchants, traders and business people as well as service class. Outlets for agriculture, for industries of various craftsmen and bazaars for fishermen and butchers were provided. Town planning also included recreation and amusement parks, play grounds and stadiums, gardens and creeper clusters, art galleries and pleasure pavilions, water reservoirs and wooden play hills. Royal palace complex had mansions for preceptor, army chief, prognosticator and ministers. Location for temples of different Gods, inside as well as outside the town was provided. The most important aspect of town planning was the road, lanes and squares, which divided the city. Last but not the least, the provision for the prostitutes was also made.

Bharata's Natyashastra is at least two thousand years old. He has not only given the information regarding construction of stage or theatre but his overall dimensions of a theatre are based on the theory of acoustics. Bharata has specifically mentioned that the length of the theatre should not be more than 30 meters as otherwise echo effect would be operational and the audience can not hear the oration of actors properly.
He further states that, if the length of theatre is more than 30 meters then the men sitting in the last row of the auditorium cannot see the expressions on the face of the actors. Thus maximum length of the theatre is restricted to 30 meters for the above two reasons.

Bharata specifically mentions that theatre should have height as if it is the two storied building. Increasing the height of the theatre also helps hear the oration of actors clearly. He advises that the roof of the theatre should be like that of a cave.

In order that there is a very mild breeze in the theatre all windows should be provided with grills and shutters. This ensures that the words spoken by the actors reach the audience without any obstruction. (2.80-81) Natyashastra of Bharata.

Kautiliya Arthashastra is full of engineering and technological references related to Building Construction, Transportation and Communication engineering, Town Planning and Irrigation Engineering.

Amongst the artefacts unearthed in these ancient cites, was a bronze statuette named the 'dancing girl' made by an advanced metallurgical technique called lost-waxing and testament to ancient Indian skills which only appeared in bronze age civilisation in 2000BC. Also found was an ancient measuring ruler, which had the finest division of 1.107mm. Nobody knows what happened to this Harappan civilisation -it simply just disappeared! As evidence shows that later Indian civilisation had regressed - cities became more inferior and lesser developed than before.

Ayurveda and hospitals in ancient India

As discussed before in ancient India very advanced, delicate and modern surgical procedures were being carried out under the administration of anasthetic with an array of 125 surgical instruments. The types of operations included plastic surgery, brain surgery, cataract removal, artificial limb augmentation, urinary stones, vesicle calculi removal, anal fistula, fractures, extraction of foetus in abnormal presentation, amputation, excision of tumours, repair of hernia and many others. We will discuss this in much more detail now and explore the entire science of surgery and medicine in Ancient India.

The most famous surgeon, called the father of Indian surgery, Sushrutha, lived around 3000 years ago at the latest, according to western historians. However, this is disputed by many and it is claimed he still lived much earlier. Sushrutha wrote the Indian treatise on medicine called the sushrutha Samhita, belong to a completely holistic branch of ancient Indian medicine called Ayurveda(the knowledge of long life) and is composed of 184 chapters, contained in 3 massive volumes on medicine and surgery and even psychotherapy. It deals with 8 main types of branches of medicine:

Salya: Major Surgery
Salkya: Supraclavicle surgery or Otorhinolaryngology and Ophthalmology
Kayaciktsa: Medicine
Bhutavidya: Demonology or psychiatry
Kumarabhritya: Paediatrics and Obstetrics
Agadantantra: Toxicology
Rasayanatrantra: Study of elixirs or geriatrics
Vagikarantantra: Science of fertility or Eugenics and aphrodisiacs
It also mentions fundamental principles

Nidana: Etiology
Sarira Sthana: Anatomy and Physiology
Cikritsa Sthana: Therapeutics
Kalpa Sthana: Toxicology
Other chapters deal with: Training and attributes of a surgeon, surgical instruments and dreams.
The types of diseases:

Agantuka: Traumatic or Extraneous origin
Sarira: Bodily
Mansa: Mental
Swabavika: Nautral

Susruta Samhita discusses 1120 illnesses, including injuries, illnesses relating to aging and mental illness. These discussions include 700 healing plants, 57 preparations derived from animal sources and 64 preparations derived from minerals. For the eye alone, 76 eye diseases are described of which 51 are treated surgically.

Some of those 1120 diseases are:

AKSHEPAKA C0NVULSIONS
PAKSHAVADHA HEMIPLEGIA
ARDITA TOTAL PARALYSIS
DANDA PATANKA PARKINSONS
MANYA STAMBHA STIFF NECK
JIHAVASTAMBHA PARALYSIS OF TONGUE
GRIDHARASI SCIATICA
MURCHA FAINTING
DHANUSH STAMBHA TETANUS
APASMARA EPILEPSY
UNMADA MADNESS

The treatment of disease can broadly be classified as
Shodhana therapy (Purification Treatment)
Shamana therapy (Palliative Treatment)
Pathya Vyavastha (Prescription of diet and activity)
Nidan Parivarjan (Avoidance of disease causing and aggravating factors)
Satvavajaya(Psychotherapy)
Rasayana therapy(use of immunomodulators and rejuvenation medicines)


I thus conclude the archaeological and recorded proof. Let us summarise what we have learnt:

* The existence of industrial level refineries for the production of steel and zinc and other metals
* The existence of highly developed urban civilisation, modern plumbing and city engineering and acoustics
* The existence of an entire science of medicine, psychiatry and advanced surgery

So far in this topic we have learnt a lot about this Indian civilisation from it's existing literature and religious texts that depict a highly advanced technological society. Yet, many ask where are the traces of this civilisation. Fortunately, and a point I have reiterated many times in this topic, there ARE traces of this civilisation and with this proof I have shown that. The conspiracy is over. There was indeed an advanced technological civilisation thousands of years ago.

We have found the missing link and it explains the Nazca lines, the Pyramids and the Baghdad battery. We have constantly tried to deny that there was an advanced civilisation in the past, even though that is the simplest answer to all the engineering mysteries of ancient times. Now we actually have an overwhelming body of literary, scientific and archaeological evidence. Let the conspiracy end here. Let us welcome our(human) heritage.

Now what happened to this civilisation? It's not known - it simply just disappeared. However, there are clues as to what happened. Something that was stumbled upon by archaeologists in Mohenjo-Daro. In an epicentre 150 feet wide, everything was crystallised, fused or melted; 180 feet from the center the bricks are melted on one side, indicating a blast, of either a meteorite or a nuclear weapon. However, a meteorite with such destructive power would have brought an end to entire world civilisation and brought about a nuclear winter, I am sure there would have been evidence of this, if this was the case. This only leaves the other possibility; nuclear weapons. There were 44 skeletons scattered about the street, some still holding hands, as if in all of a sudden a great calamity had befallen the city. It was found that these skeletons were as radioactive as those of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Mohenjandaro is said to be according to some researchers are one of the 7 Rish cities of Ancient India that were destroyed by WMD. What else could have happened to this civilisation? All the evidence suggests a man-made calamity. The region is still radioactive today and the villagers who live there have radiation poisoning and a high rate of birth deformalities.

[edit on 2-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Indigo_Child...

GREAT thread!!!

i have not read the entire thread yet but i have questions...

are aliens involved in this advanced Indian society (did aliens help the civilization grow)???

how did this civilization "end" (i mean, they are not here now so where did they go)???

thanks...

are aliens involved in this advanced Indian society (did aliens help the civilization grow)???

how did this civilization "end" (i mean, they are not here now so where did they go)??

Thanks, They see All.

Are aliens involved in this advanced society? Yes, but I prefer to use the term extraterrestrial. According to the Vedic literature the universe is teeming with life in all universes, planets, moons and dimensions/realms, and is alive itself. That is what the purpose of the physical universe is; to support life.

So yes the vedic literature is brimming with references to all kinds of life form interactions; terrestrial, extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, extradimensional, ultradimensional, celestial and even subterranean.

In the subterrarnean(inside Earth) are described Naga Lokas, where Icha Dhari or shape shifting humanoid serpent beings reside, they are described as the guardian of esoteric knowledge. In the higher realms, suns, planets and moons are described as highly evolved life forms and called demi-gods. However, this could also be a symbolism for the beings who come from the stars, planets(in our solar system) and moons.

Supposedly in these vedic times, the demi-gods or devas use to appear frequently to people and gave them technology and knowledge, they also interbred with people. The Rishis were the keepers of the highest science and knowledge and they learnt this from a "divine source" The vedas were said to be revealed by a non-human source.

Some examples of mortal and gods interaction:

Kunti got all her sons from the gods. She learnt how to summon these gods from a Rishi who gave her a mantra for each god. Also, Kunti's fathers grand father was actually a naga(shape shifting serpent)

Krishna's city of Dwarika and Ravans city of Lanka(ceylon)was built by Vishwakarma, who was the chief architect and engineer of the demi-gods. Vishwakarma was also to transport entire land masses. He also revealed the art of mechanical engineering and architecture to humans. And made the weapon "Agneyastra"

The demi-god Indra was where Arjuna(who was his son) obtained all his celestial futuristic weapons and his vimana(aeroplane)

Krishna, was "not of this Earth" and he knew all the demi-gods very well and they all reveered him. In fact Krishna was implanted into the womb of mother of Krishna by a ray of light from the sky(virgin birth)

There are many more interactions between gods and mortals. I am sure a resident Indian or Hindu should be able to tell you more.

Now, what happend to this civilization? According to the Vedas there have already been 6 civilizations on this planet(we are the 7th) over a course of 1.9 billion years. Each civilization lasts 306 million years and then is destroyed.

From what I have gleaned so far from the evidence the Indus civilization and textural references to the war, the floods and the evidence of nuclear blasts in this time-frame. That it was destroyed in a nuclear war. Now, as all the knowledge of the technology was with the demi-gods and Rishis, it makes sense that if they are no longer present, the technology and sciences would decline and enter the dark ages.

This decline in technology and sophistication is shown from the archeological evidence. The ancient cities of Harappa and Mohenjadaro show evidence of them being rebuilt several times, one built over the other, and the bottom most(i.e. earliest) was the most advanced, while the others got progressively inferior.

We can see this delinear progression in everything from ancient times. The ancient language of Sanskrit for instance, is more advanced than the languages that followed after it. In the Pyramids in Egypt, one can see how the Pyramids built later after the Giza Pyramids are less skillfully done.

The Indus Harappan civilization is actually described in the Vedas as inferior to the Rama civilization. We see this in the Vyaamnika Shastra where it describes the vimanas(aeroplanes) of that age to be far superior to those in the Mahabharata age. It actually pre-empts modern aeroplanes saying they will be even more inferior.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]

so is the earth older than what we (humans now) think it to be???

i mean if each civilization lasts for 306 million years and there were six, the earth is pretty old!!!

also, each civilization is less advanced than the last???

all i can say is that this sucks...

so why dont the ETs (or indian gods) help us become more advanced in this time???

or are they???

Originally posted by they see ALL
so is the earth older than what we (humans now) think it to be???
i mean if each civilization lasts for 306 million years and there were six, the earth is pretty old!!!
also, each civilization is less advanced than the last???
all i can say is that this sucks...
so why dont the ETs (or indian gods) help us become more advanced in this time???
or are they???

Let us not forget that this is all one big theory, not yet proven, well sort of.

We don't really know where they came from or what happened to them. For exmaple we don't even know why the Indus Valley Civilization ended. It is as if all the people just got burned, they were all arragned in a wierd sort of way.

So our knowledge of these ancients are really very low.

Let us not forget that aliens helping out our ancients fight is also another theory, first proporsed by Danikein. Again we don't know if this is true or not.

Surf

Originally posted by they see ALL
so is the earth older than what we (humans now) think it to be???

i mean if each civilization lasts for 306 million years and there were six, the earth is pretty old!!!

also, each civilization is less advanced than the last???

all i can say is that this sucks...

so why dont the ETs (or indian gods) help us become more advanced this time???

or are they???

No, the age of the Earth as thought to be today, is 4.3-4.5 billion years old. According to the Vedas, the current human civilization began 4.3 billion years ago. There has been approx 2 billion years of life on this planet(306*7) There will be 6 more after us. The time cycle of a civilization is further sub-divided into a cycles of four ages: Golden, Silver, Bronze and Iron. In the Iron age(the kali age) there is a lot of corruption, materialism and greed and very little spirituality. This is why the "Indian gods" are no longer present in human society.

The 14 different civilizations of Earth are not specified to be human, in fact as I was reading the other day, all of the different kinds of civilizations that will rule this planet are different species. I would imagine the time system is caliberated to evolutionary time scales. Humans still have millions of years to go before they are destroyed(thank god for that, eh ) and 427,000 years to go before they leave the iron age. However, one day of Brahma is already over(4.32 billion years) and the next six civilizations will appear in it's night, basically in a phase where the Earth will begin to die.