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Deuteronomy 32:8 Yahweh a Son of God (The Most High)
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a reply to: Sassanid
Shem,also known as, King of Salem, the shemite who ruled in the Canaanite tents as prophesied by Noah's curse on Ham's son, brought EL to the land of Canaan and after he was gone, it was perverted to a Phallic and a Bull.
Jacob was well after that and Moses was given the scriptures of the first five books by inspiration of God, that places Jacob in that text so that Israel would understand God was the one leading them and why.
Shem,also known as, King of Salem, the shemite who ruled in the Canaanite tents as prophesied by Noah's curse on Ham's son, brought EL to the land of Canaan and after he was gone, it was perverted to a Phallic and a Bull.
Jacob was well after that and Moses was given the scriptures of the first five books by inspiration of God, that places Jacob in that text so that Israel would understand God was the one leading them and why.
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Once again OP says two things that come full circle .
""What am I getting out of this? The satisfaction that comes with telling the truth. The possibility of informing people who don't want to worship the demon Yahweh that there is a higher God who is merciful and kind also makes me feel good. ""
""Some guy says some b.s. that he is probably paid for doesn't impress me. I have a brain, a bible and the same ability to research as anyone. I'm not the type to follow other people and I don't need to. I'm smart. You may need people to make your decisions, I make my own.""
Makes you wonder what the OP's point is . He says a PHD in Biblical studies should not be listened to while trying to convince others that he/she is correct despite the many members taking issue with it . He/she makes claims that Christians are wrong and he/she is right . Context has little in the way of informing OP .
Once again OP says two things that come full circle .
""What am I getting out of this? The satisfaction that comes with telling the truth. The possibility of informing people who don't want to worship the demon Yahweh that there is a higher God who is merciful and kind also makes me feel good. ""
""Some guy says some b.s. that he is probably paid for doesn't impress me. I have a brain, a bible and the same ability to research as anyone. I'm not the type to follow other people and I don't need to. I'm smart. You may need people to make your decisions, I make my own.""
Makes you wonder what the OP's point is . He says a PHD in Biblical studies should not be listened to while trying to convince others that he/she is correct despite the many members taking issue with it . He/she makes claims that Christians are wrong and he/she is right . Context has little in the way of informing OP .
a reply to: klebough
That may be true, esoterically speaking. But it is also a story of El assigning every nation a god as a sort of divine governor, pardon the metaphor. He is bequeathing each nation to one of his Sons, and Yahweh is one of the Sons, his inheritance Israel.
The Masoretic texts changed the word God to Israel, which doesn't make sense at all, because they deduced from the Greek texts that ancient Israelites believed in many gods, and Yahweh was a Son of God. So, they changed one word. God. To Israel.
That's deception, and the NIV and many if not most English translations took a different route. They re-worded it so Yahweh was the Most High God and kept Israel for himself, which is not true, obviously. I could go on, but I am tired.
That may be true, esoterically speaking. But it is also a story of El assigning every nation a god as a sort of divine governor, pardon the metaphor. He is bequeathing each nation to one of his Sons, and Yahweh is one of the Sons, his inheritance Israel.
The Masoretic texts changed the word God to Israel, which doesn't make sense at all, because they deduced from the Greek texts that ancient Israelites believed in many gods, and Yahweh was a Son of God. So, they changed one word. God. To Israel.
That's deception, and the NIV and many if not most English translations took a different route. They re-worded it so Yahweh was the Most High God and kept Israel for himself, which is not true, obviously. I could go on, but I am tired.
edit on 7-3-2016 by Sassanid because: (no reason
given)
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Why do you feel the need to belittle me? My intentions are good. Free will allows me to dedicate my mission to the Holy Spirit. I love the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is always here.
Making fun of my religious beliefs isn't cool. I take it very seriously, and I am asking you politely to please stop making fun of me. I have every right to exercise my religion, and free speech and all that.
You CAN say what you want, but it is my thread and I don't remember forcing you to come here. If you have a different theory on the nature of God feel free to express it.
Leave me and the Holy Spirit out of it.
Why do you feel the need to belittle me? My intentions are good. Free will allows me to dedicate my mission to the Holy Spirit. I love the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is always here.
Making fun of my religious beliefs isn't cool. I take it very seriously, and I am asking you politely to please stop making fun of me. I have every right to exercise my religion, and free speech and all that.
You CAN say what you want, but it is my thread and I don't remember forcing you to come here. If you have a different theory on the nature of God feel free to express it.
Leave me and the Holy Spirit out of it.
edit on 7-3-2016 by Sassanid because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Sassanid
Daniel 10:13 agrees with this view.
Implying that there were many beings who had been awarded districts who had hierarchy of their own.
The Israelites absolutely believed that other nations had their own gods, but that their god was the most powerful and allowed those other gods to exist "for a time".
However, the scripture you use to support your argument doesn't say sons of god. The direct translations referes to Isreal:
Source
In fact, the very translation you use shows this as the footnote:
Let's also not gloss over how many times the bible makes it clear that El Elyon and YHWH are the same being. Psalms 97:9 is a good example of that. El Elyon appears to be a title, where YHWH appears to be a personal name.
Daniel 10:13 agrees with this view.
13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
Implying that there were many beings who had been awarded districts who had hierarchy of their own.
The Israelites absolutely believed that other nations had their own gods, but that their god was the most powerful and allowed those other gods to exist "for a time".
However, the scripture you use to support your argument doesn't say sons of god. The direct translations referes to Isreal:
Source
1121 [e] bə-nê בְּנֵ֥י of the sons Noun
3478 [e] yiś-rā-’êl. יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ of Israel Noun
In fact, the very translation you use shows this as the footnote:
a 32:8 So with LXX and DSS 4QDeut. MT reads the Israelis
Let's also not gloss over how many times the bible makes it clear that El Elyon and YHWH are the same being. Psalms 97:9 is a good example of that. El Elyon appears to be a title, where YHWH appears to be a personal name.
edit on 7-3-2016 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)
a reply to: coomba98
do you realize that incorrectly using your, when you mean you're under this different account actually shows that you are both the same person and illustrates that you are simply the troll that everyone thinks?
It has been shown and illustrated through other passages and a CORRECT usage of the English language, something you apparently have difficulty with even AFTER people point it out to you, that it is likely that Elohim is a title and Yahweh a name.
I'm afraid it is YOU, who is having difficulty with having been proven wrong and resort to ad hominem attacks without any substantive rebuttals, when pressed.
Jaden
do you realize that incorrectly using your, when you mean you're under this different account actually shows that you are both the same person and illustrates that you are simply the troll that everyone thinks?
It has been shown and illustrated through other passages and a CORRECT usage of the English language, something you apparently have difficulty with even AFTER people point it out to you, that it is likely that Elohim is a title and Yahweh a name.
I'm afraid it is YOU, who is having difficulty with having been proven wrong and resort to ad hominem attacks without any substantive rebuttals, when pressed.
Jaden
edit on 7-3-2016 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Sassanid
I have the Holy Ghost living in me, I have the preserved words of God in my hands, the Holy Ghost teaches me by comparing spiritual to spiritual. Everything you teach is in direct conflict to God's word and the Holy Ghost method of teaching as well as Scripture mandate on how to study.
I have the Holy Ghost living in me, I have the preserved words of God in my hands, the Holy Ghost teaches me by comparing spiritual to spiritual. Everything you teach is in direct conflict to God's word and the Holy Ghost method of teaching as well as Scripture mandate on how to study.
originally posted by: coomba98
Ok, so Sassanid is not going well here so id thought to put up a better argument than strawman fallacies.
I to believe all the Abrahamic gods to be separate entities in the ancient days.
[and if you don't believe me your just a bad Christian and brainwashed and and and ]
I did see this awesome article many years ago but cant find it. Had a mention of El's wife Asherah.
Some interesting articles to read that support the subject.
contradictionsinthebible.com...
And one from a highly regarded Christian.
www.reasonablefaith.org...
And that's me being lazy.
[and if you don't believe me your just a bad Christian and brainwashed and and and ] lol
Don't shoot the messenger.
You have obviously not read the second link you provided right to the end. It demolishes the premise of the OP.
originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: coomba98
do you realize that incorrectly using your, when you mean you're under this different account actually shows that you are both the same person and illustrates that you are simply the troll that everyone thinks?
It has been shown and illustrated through other passages and a CORRECT usage of the English language, something you apparently have difficulty with even AFTER people point it out to you, that it is likely that Elohim is a title and Yahweh a name.
I'm afraid it is YOU, who is having difficulty with having been proven wrong and resort to ad hominem attacks without any substantive rebuttals, when pressed.
Jaden
Um. I asume you ment the reply to someone else.
I aint the OP thats for sure. You can tell its him by the 'new' accounts created. Ive been here for years.
a reply to: Sassanid
I have just downloaded the Catholic Bible ---
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High gave the nations each their heritage, when he partitioned out the human race, he assigned the boundaries of nations according to the number of the children of God,
You seem to include additional verses other than verse 8 --
Your Septuagint version is the product of Hebrew to Latin to English by Jerome. Most all biblical scholars including those of Jewish faith seems to differ with you on your understanding of the words "Sons Of God."
This Deuteronomy 32:8 is a portion of a poem of Moses and the Hebrew understanding is that there were only Hebrews or converts of Hebrew that worshiped the God of Abraham. Those who did worship the God of Abraham were called Sons of God the same as Abraham was called a Son of God. In this case the sons of God are referenced as Sons of Yisra'el or Sons of Men or Sons of Adam. Naturally the Sons of Yisra'el were sons of Adam or sons of men also but not all sons of men or Adam were considered Sons of God.
Hebrew to English from the 1988 Tanakh reads as follows --------
Deuteronomy 32:8 as ----
When the Most High gave nations their homes
And set the divisions of man,
He fixed the boundaries of peoples
In relation to Israel's numbers,
To be fair, this is a matter of translators and the material the translators have at the time of translation along with the era of translation. We simply do not have the autographs of the Torah and even if we did have those autographs it would still be a matter of various cultures understanding the language translations of the autographs. Word change arguments are not valid till you can produce the autographs. The best you can do is to believe you are correct which I seriously doubt that you are correct.
There has been a recent three and a half years study of the Hebrew to English use of the Hebrew name of God. God is spelled Yahuah in English and pronounce Yah - hoo - ah. The Begotten Son of Yah hoo ah is named Yahusha and pronounced Yah hoo sha --- To each his own because we all understand the various names of God. This will show you how word study is foolish without the material to verify that word.
You see how you have corrupted thought? You referenced the Catholic translation of the Septuagint without going to the source of material or to the nearest source of translation, which in this case is Hebrew, and presented a fair comparison. You attacked Christianity with Hebrew literature without true autographs to present your attack. I now wonder why you did not attack the ones who own the literature? Christian bashing seems to be the purpose here without any sort of academia whatsoever. Very foolish and nonsensical to say the least.
My opinions of course --
We have all been fooled into believing that Yahweh and the Most High (El Elyon) are and were the same being. This may be the current belief among Christians today, but ancient Canaan/Israel did not share this belief. Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High(El Elyon) gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided the sons of men, he fixed their bounds according to the number of the sons of God; But Yahweh's portion was his people, Jacob his share of inheritance. What you have just read is a Catholic bible stating Yahweh inherited from the Most High, the nation of Israel/Jacob. You can't inherit something from yourself. The Ugaritic texts and the Ras Shamra prove El existed prior to the cult of Yahweh. They were, in the era of Deuteronomy, Father and "Son." To prove deception is amiss lets go to the NIV:
I have just downloaded the Catholic Bible ---
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High gave the nations each their heritage, when he partitioned out the human race, he assigned the boundaries of nations according to the number of the children of God,
You seem to include additional verses other than verse 8 --
Your Septuagint version is the product of Hebrew to Latin to English by Jerome. Most all biblical scholars including those of Jewish faith seems to differ with you on your understanding of the words "Sons Of God."
This Deuteronomy 32:8 is a portion of a poem of Moses and the Hebrew understanding is that there were only Hebrews or converts of Hebrew that worshiped the God of Abraham. Those who did worship the God of Abraham were called Sons of God the same as Abraham was called a Son of God. In this case the sons of God are referenced as Sons of Yisra'el or Sons of Men or Sons of Adam. Naturally the Sons of Yisra'el were sons of Adam or sons of men also but not all sons of men or Adam were considered Sons of God.
Hebrew to English from the 1988 Tanakh reads as follows --------
Deuteronomy 32:8 as ----
When the Most High gave nations their homes
And set the divisions of man,
He fixed the boundaries of peoples
In relation to Israel's numbers,
To be fair, this is a matter of translators and the material the translators have at the time of translation along with the era of translation. We simply do not have the autographs of the Torah and even if we did have those autographs it would still be a matter of various cultures understanding the language translations of the autographs. Word change arguments are not valid till you can produce the autographs. The best you can do is to believe you are correct which I seriously doubt that you are correct.
Now the word inheritance has been ommitted because Christianity can't deal with Yahweh recieving Israel as an inheritance from El. Please don't tell me this isn't deception, or try rationalizing away the truth.
There has been a recent three and a half years study of the Hebrew to English use of the Hebrew name of God. God is spelled Yahuah in English and pronounce Yah - hoo - ah. The Begotten Son of Yah hoo ah is named Yahusha and pronounced Yah hoo sha --- To each his own because we all understand the various names of God. This will show you how word study is foolish without the material to verify that word.
You see how you have corrupted thought? You referenced the Catholic translation of the Septuagint without going to the source of material or to the nearest source of translation, which in this case is Hebrew, and presented a fair comparison. You attacked Christianity with Hebrew literature without true autographs to present your attack. I now wonder why you did not attack the ones who own the literature? Christian bashing seems to be the purpose here without any sort of academia whatsoever. Very foolish and nonsensical to say the least.
My opinions of course --
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Why do you always call the KJV the preserved word of god when it clearly is a bad translation. It was originally requested by King Henry with the intent of changing doctrine to allow for his own view of what the church should be. King Jame's version was to further make changes to cater to a Puritan ideology. We have significantly better translations available to us now which use as many extant texts as possible. While a great achievement, the KJV is FAR from "the preserved word of god". The preserved word would be the original texts dating as close to their origin as possible.
Why do you always call the KJV the preserved word of god when it clearly is a bad translation. It was originally requested by King Henry with the intent of changing doctrine to allow for his own view of what the church should be. King Jame's version was to further make changes to cater to a Puritan ideology. We have significantly better translations available to us now which use as many extant texts as possible. While a great achievement, the KJV is FAR from "the preserved word of god". The preserved word would be the original texts dating as close to their origin as possible.
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