Clinton won the Presidency today and I am sad.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: xuenchen

Affordable health care was her platform before she lost the nomination in 2008 anyway so that makes sense actually. I guess you'll have to start calling it the affordable care act instead of Obama care then.

Obama will always *OWN* it.

He will never live it down.

Neither will Democrats since they were the ones that killed the Public Option.

a reply to: amazing

What point ?

Life ain't ever meant to be easy.

Some people need to wrap their socialist little heads around that.

a reply to: butcherguy

It says general welfare, which is different than individual welfare.

Indeed IT DOES.

As in the general welfare of the STATE to function properly.

Not created government programs that rob from a minority to pay for every little wish of the mob.

They just don't get it, and never will.

General welfare is some EVERYONE in the unions gets a direct benefit from.

originally posted by: neo96
That fabulous DELUSION of universal 'healthcare'!

Yes...because Canada, England, Ireland, France, Germany, Japan and virtually every developed nation on earth actually don't exist...it is just a DELUSION!!

Perfectly suited world view for Drumpf supporters...

originally posted by: Esoterotica
I do so enjoy watching Neo play devils advocate. I find it hard to believe he takes pride in the fact he has to pay for basic quality of life necessities.

Keep worshipping that golden cow bro, don't let the little humans get in the way of your Corporate Utopia.

I find it hard to believe that anyone else takes pride in expecting the supply of life's basic necessities by someone else (i.e. government handouts), creating a dependency on that someone else (in this case, government). That's what children do, not grown ups. And slaves. Slaves depend on someone else to keep them up, too.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well we could always trim a bunch of money off of the military budget.

We could always get rid of foodstamps that make the JP Morgans BILLIONS of dollars.

And Monsanto BILLIONS of dollars.

Hoorah for 'free' GMO food for the masses!

It's great.

We could always get rid of social security.

We could always get rid of medicare that guarantee hospitals over 3 trillion per year as someone quoted earlier.

And that would also take a big bite out of BIG PHARMA.

Same exact reasoning to get rid of MEDICAID.

I don't give a ratts behind CORPORATIONS which hospitals should not be guaranteed income.

Even better with over 100 million people BACK in the private sector, Which increases the payee pool.

Healthcare costs would be REDUCED.

But by GOD we can't have that now.

We 'must' continue allowing the US federal government corning the healthcare market.

Long live SUPER monoplies!

Zeig Heil.

a reply to: xuenchen

This democrat was never for any of it. I'm still not.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: neo96
That fabulous DELUSION of universal 'healthcare'!

Yes...because Canada, England, Ireland, France, Germany, Japan and virtually every developed nation on earth actually don't exist...it is just a DELUSION!!

Perfectly suited world view for Drumpf supporters...

So bascially because the US doesn't have a MASSIVELY subsidized, and TAXED TO OBlIVION healthcare 'system'

Means we aren't 'developed'.

Yeah DELUSIONAL the proponents of universal 'healthcare'. Since it is as FASCIST as it can get.

a reply to: Indigo5

And all those nations are happy-time-fun lands where everything is going great right?

Perfectly suited world view for a delusional lefty.

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Indigo5

And all those nations are happy-time-fun lands where everything is going great right?

Perfectly suited world view for a delusional lefty.

The Eurozone is on the brink of destruction.

Ya know that place where 'austerity' is a dirty word because they are spending WAY too much cash.

And giving the people EVERYTHING little thing their hearts 'desire'.

a reply to: xuenchen

He's counting it as a success so I'm not sure what he has to live down.

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: Esoterotica
I do so enjoy watching Neo play devils advocate. I find it hard to believe he takes pride in the fact he has to pay for basic quality of life necessities.

Keep worshipping that golden cow bro, don't let the little humans get in the way of your Corporate Utopia.

I find it hard to believe that anyone else takes pride in expecting the supply of life's basic necessities by someone else (i.e. government handouts), creating a dependency on that someone else (in this case, government). That's what children do, not grown ups. And slaves. Slaves depend on someone else to keep them up, too.

Reading this I actually thought of the corporate water monopolies rather than government handouts. All human institutions are evil.

a reply to: xuenchen

Obama will always *OWN* it.

He will never live it down.

Neither will Democrats since they were the ones that killed the Public Option.

The idea that the Democrats killed the public option in backroom negotiations is a myth. There has never been any evidence presented that Obama and the Democrats did so.

The only thing the Democrats squashed was a "triggered-public option" proposed by the Republicans, but it didn't matter whatsoever because everything agreed to in negotiations between the Democrats and Republicans was lost when the Republicans pulled the rug out from underneath Obama on healthcare.

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Indigo5

And all those nations are happy-time-fun lands where everything is going great right?

Perfectly suited world view for a delusional lefty.

Well....they aren't so corrupt as to try and convince their citizens that Cancer and other diseases respond to capitalism?

I love capitalism...When whether or not a child gets cancer depends on how hard that child's parents work then we can shout about the virtues of capitalistic healthcare...

Until then...the system Donald Trump is proposing (and virtually all republicans) is designed to bankrupt and then kill people that aren't wealthy enough to afford treatment for serious diseases.

Pre-Obamacare...even during the worst economic crisis of our time and near economic collapse...the #1 cause of bankruptcy in this country remained Medical Bills...Think on that one..

And that CEO that bought the Pharma company that sold Aids treatment drugs?...and then gleefully jacked up the price by 5000%?...they charged him for SEC violations...Secretly stashing investors money from one company to another...what he did with the price increases? Fully legit in the great ol USA!

Disease does not respond to price elasticity, nor demand or supply...having cancer is not an economic choice..

Step back and think and it's a pretty sick ploy...Healthcare ..objectively ...has no tether or relationship to capitalism

a reply to: Indigo5

I love capitalism...

If you really did you would be against that super monopoly 'universal' healthcare.

Ya know that FREE MARKET capitalists love.

The fundamental basis of LIBERALISM use to mean.

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
Today Donald Trump came out with his health care plan. Unfortunately this plan is going to cost Trump the election. While many Americans vocally disliked Obamacare, many more are very happy with it and for them it was the number one issue in this election. I am one of those.

So basically no matter how much i dislike Clinton, i will be forced to vote for her simply to protect my loved ones who have come down with possibly deadly diseases (and well over 100k in annual costs this year). My premiums are already high under Obamacare, but under Trumps plan they would multiply many times over making health insurance un-affordable for my family, that is if I could even get insurance with the preexisting conditions. Waiting until they are on their death bed for care doesn't work for them or me. All my excess income and then some goes to pay healthcare premiums, I have nothing left to put in a HSA.

In the last few years of battling these illnesses, and spending much time in treatment facilities, i know i am not alone. Every week more and more new people are coming into these facilities, it is epidemic. Most of these people hate Hillary, but she will get their vote for this issue alone, because they really have no other choice. Keep the healthcare in place or die. Trump might as well say that he prefers my family to be dead. Discounted emergency rooms will not help them.

Had Trump espoused a better formula for Universal healthcare he would have been a shoo in in this election. Instead he has just ensured himself defeat. It saddens me so much because i was completely behind the majority of his other stances. What good are them if my family won't be around to see them?

You are dead wrong. Trumps new plan is excellent, and is the only plan I have seen that will actually reduce costs dramatically.

The key is point 5.

The reason the healthcare costs are so high is they get to bill you after the procedure is done. Giving people the ability to shop around by seeing prices ahead of time will cause competition and drive prices down.

For example cat scans cost around $300 in Japan but as much as $2000 here. There is zero reason for this because it is the same equipment, but they get away with it here because competition does not happen.

a reply to: neo96

And the Europe we left is not anything like the Europe of today.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: neo96
That fabulous DELUSION of universal 'healthcare'!

As it stands right now the US government is the largest healthcare insurer in the country today.

There is no single 'private' corporation that has over 100 million people on their rolls,

Medicare,and Medicaid, and Tricare are currently costing us over $1 trillion per YEAR.

Ya know those programs where everyone is using it, hardly ANYONE is paying for it. Which is why there are NEW TAXES to pay for it.

That's how Universal healthcare works.

I do not see how anyone would support the STATE creating a super monopoly on a CORPORATE product.

Anyone who wants 'universal' healthcare deserves the Darwin award.

you miss the point. People just want to be able to live, and ease their pain and not die. That's the only reason people like ObamaCare, medicaid, medicare or Universal Healthcare. It keeps people out of pain and alive.

Yeah, but that won't make America Great again! We need a military so big that no one will mess with us!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ilikebooze

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ilikebooze

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Krazysh0t

IS that the Same Europe with the debt crisis because they are under the delusion the state exists to provide for the material WANTS of the masses.

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't.

Basic healthcare is a material want of the masses?

Just because alot of people want it doesn't mean you should force EVERYONE to get it.

I am so tired of other people trying to decide whats best for me.

Well you do know that you don't have to use it even if you have it right? But in any case, are you going to honestly sit there and tell me you've NEVER been to the doctors for an illness or injury and just toughed out every malady you've had?

of course I have been to a doctor. So because i have used a doctor I should be forced to buy insurance? I dont follow.

Wait, I never said you should be forced to buy insurance. In fact, I specifically said I didn't support it in a previous post in this thread. UHC isn't that though.

I guess I've missed something - are you claiming that UHC is not paid for by taxes, which are paid by... me? Is that what you're saying? I can have UHC without paying for it, because the government has some other source of income besides my taxes to pay for it with?

If the answer to that is "no", then yes, we would be required to pay for it.

As a matter of personal disclosure, I have no insurance, nor do I want any. I have not carried health insurance since some time between 1987 and 1993. I can't recall the specific year I figured out it was all a scam and dumped it. So far, I've not payed any ACA fines, either, by carefully monitoring my income, and insuring it falls below the level where I would have to file taxes and thereby give the IRS my medical information (they're not doctors, y'know? So it's none of their damned business). What that means is that all of the taxes I pay, they keep... but it also means they keep their noses out of my damned business.