Clinton won the Presidency today and I am sad.

originally posted by: gottaknow
Does anyone especially here in the ATS community REALLY think that this election hasn't been fully rigged to ensure that Hilary Clinton becomes the next president??

I've been watching it since the beginning and the entire system is being put in place to set her up in the office.
Surely others see this!?

I absolutely 100% agree. Votes mean nothing. Agenda is king.

a reply to: xuenchen

It's been a goal of the party for a much longer time than Obama's term. Despite hugh opposition and a constant uphill battle he was the one who got something on the books. Like constitutional amendments that refine our original intents as a nation future generations will mold and shape affordable care into a working form or something close to it.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: neo96

And the Europe we left is not anything like the Europe of today.

No it isn't.

Altogether there are six European nations whose debts are larger than their economic output, and 16 that have debts larger than the 60%-of-GDP limit set out in the Maastricht Treaty.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Tell me again how 'awesome' the EuroZone is.

So...Europe today is just like Europe of 1776?

How does your comment about Europe's current debt relate to me asking if the Europe of today is the same as the Europe during the American Revolution?

It doesn't.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

What point ?

Life ain't ever meant to be easy.

Some people need to wrap their socialist little heads around that.

Why? Why shouldn't life be made as easy as possible?

originally posted by: nenothtu
The same thing that happens if I don't get cancer - I eventually die, either way.

Well, for those of us who would like to use medical technology to live a few more years, can you admit that we should build a system such that it should be possible rather than one where only the wealthiest get those extra years?

originally posted by: nenothtu
Corporate water monopoly? What kind of people do you live among who thought it was a good idea to give corporations control of THEIR water?

What a strange concept - this old world just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser!

...people who argue the government can't provide anything efficiently, and therefore it needs to be privatized in order to lower prices for consumers. Sound familiar?

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's a GD corporate product like anything else.

IT's not a freggin right.

Why not? What's wrong with caring for the sick because they need it and not because they can afford it?

Why don't you read the EMTLA ?

How does the EMTLA cover basic health care when it applies to emergencies only? Plus you just got done saying we need to dismantle Medicare, so how exactly would the EMTLA work without that? You are being hypocritical right now.

There sure is HYPOCRISY here by those that IGNORE just how BIG GOVERNMENT universal 'healthcare' is.

But hey 'liberals' know 'best'!

If you like your doctor, you can keep him/her, right?

Who will be paying for them anyway? The govt?

Cuba pumps out doctors so we can get them for a good price.

a reply to: nenothtu

Actually what I would like would be the government actually paying for healthcare, not health insurance. There is a distinct difference there which results in one being DRASTICALLY cheaper than the alternative.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Krazysh0t

IS that the Same Europe with the debt crisis because they are under the delusion the state exists to provide for the material WANTS of the masses.

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't.

would that be the same USA where they had to have meetings until the dead of the night and only at the 11th hour was the national debt ceiling raised to actually keep government running!

Roads? Postal service? K-12 education? Police? Etc. Why aren't you ardent 'capitalists' fighting so that one day you can pay for those things individually too? Awaiting your (unlikely) response.

originally posted by: neo96
That fabulous DELUSION of universal 'healthcare'!

As it stands right now the US government is the largest healthcare insurer in the country today.

There is no single 'private' corporation that has over 100 million people on their rolls,

Medicare,and Medicaid, and Tricare are currently costing us over $1 trillion per YEAR.

Ya know those programs where everyone is using it, hardly ANYONE is paying for it. Which is why there are NEW TAXES to pay for it.

That's how Universal healthcare works.

I do not see how anyone would support the STATE creating a super monopoly on a CORPORATE product.

That's simple. We stop making health care a CORPORATE product, and we make it a service for civilization.

France can cover 100% of its people with advanced care for as much money as the US spends on government (medicare & Medicaid) to cover half, poorly.

How do they do that? A social and governmental attitude that health care providers are there to serve the people and not vice versa. Elimination of most of the profit motive and channels.

In USA, the attitude is for health care providers to extract maximum money from a stupid government, and for private insurers to do the same.

Other countries, not at all socialist, like Korea, Taiwan, Japan and even ultrcapitalist Hong Kong have socialized medicine.

Even if you pay straight up cash, no insurance, no taxes---the same health care is far less expensive in other countries than USA.

That's totally the opposite than many other goods and services: in the USA, world-traded physical goods are less expensive than anywhere else, and highly competitive financial services (e.g. stock & bond markets) are less expensive than anywhere else, decent clothes are less expensive than anywhere else, unsubsidized gasoline is less expensive than anywhere else, etc etc.

And yet, somehow with health care, the same product and service isn't just 50% to 70% higher (like say the cost markup of an iPhone in Brazil vs USA), but 500% to 10000% higher in USA. It's a total market failure, and many powerful people are profiteering off this catastrophe.

They dont and will Not let it work.
look at what they are doing in UK.
they are sabotaging the NHS.
so they can give they some kind of obama (un)care.

a reply to: neo96

Except back when US was 'created' universal health care was non-existent....so your point is mute.

I live in Australia and it is wonderful. Only thing costing us money is extra's like dental, physio, chiro and stuff like that.

I pity those who think the US system is ideal.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

No, it's kind of like how you have guns just in case you might need them to protect yourself. You might never need to, but you'll sure be glad you got them if you do...

Except that I only have to buy a gun once and have very minimal upkeep.

Policies for a nation with populations in the 9 figure range have a more complex manifestation than a local perspective of economics. Millions upon millions of people feel like they are being fiscally crushed by the Affordable Healthcare premiums, and they are scheduled to continue to increase. Many smaller businesses are folding, and many doctors are expatriating in response. The reduction in cash flow is forcing decisions that generally result in more unhealthy decisions. People with less money per month will choose to skip on other bills. They will purchase a less safe vehicle to re balance their budgets. They will buy expired food, junk food, and skip organic alternatives to make ends meet. They will buy cheaper protective gear, thinner winter clothing, and skip the REI priced Sun protective clothing in the summer. They will cut down on their heating bills in winter, and their air conditioning in summer. Their hours will be slashed at work to make ends meet for their bosses. Many will be given swing shifts, over night shifts, and longer commutes to provide for shortage of hours. This will lead to very long distance late night commutes where sleep deprivation results in more unhealthy choices such as caffeine pills and drinks. The stress levels across the board increase.

At the end of the day, you end up with more stomach cancer, more skin cancer, more heart attacks, more traffic accidents, more ER visits, more hypothermia cases, more heat exhaustion victims, more attempted suicides, more poison treatment cases from scam online drug companies, more obesity from addictive additive based junk foods, and on and on.

We live in the 21st century. Most people today are capable of self medicating through online research, preparation, and small purchases. The modern medical industry creates a vast chain of excesses. A wonderful example is treatment for surface burns. A visit to the doctor plus prescription can run several hundred dollars, when, at the end of the day, the patient merely requires, and in fact only ends up using a few dollars of silver burn cream that can be purchased for less than the price of a meal at a fast food restaurant.

Modern medical equipment comes at greatly inflated prices, much in the same way designer label blue jeans are made in the same sweat shop but have a different patch sewn on to inflate them from 20 to 200+ dollars. The same products purchased in the United States often cost several times more than in other countries because the American negotiators have to deal with something not unlike the student loan promises that money will always be there. This is no different from the inflation of condemned apartment buildings dressed up to meet subsidized housing standards like wild west movie sets. A government bottle of aspirin can end up costing more than a non government bottle of aspirin because the man selling aspirin knows the government isn't trying to get a fair deal on the bottle. Insurance, thus laughably becomes a ruse, in which the patients pay a premium which formerly matched the retail and wholesale of the product, while their insurance premiums go to aggregate funds that are packaged not unlike the mortgage backed securities and "bespoke tranche opportunities".

Modern medical fees are essentially a variant of the Usury economic model where the patients don't realize they are being scammed by predatory lending. All they know it is still costs them an arm and a leg if they don't pay.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

Hillary backs Obamacare, and that was a lie, that ended up not only costing people 2-3 times more than what they were normally paying for insurance, but if they cannot pay the insurance they get heavily fined and even arrested. Not to mention her lies that are posted all over the web, and the fact that when push comes to shove, she will abandon people she is supposed to be protecting...and just let them di a horrible death and then try to cover it up. THIS is what you want for your family? I don't follow your logic at all.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

Like you said, it is epidemic. Do you know why its reaching epidemic levels even though after billions of dollars from donations and years of research... Its because the SICK CARE system doesn't work. Its designed to keep you sick and dependent on synthetic drugs that can never cure. Only natural things from nature can TRULY CURE you. Obamacare is just part of the endgame, Part of the monopoly.... Do some real research and stop listening to the traitors of this country...

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical
i agree health care sucks cin us the insurance companies have us by our collective knackers no candidate will try to be fore a system like England or Sweden why because the insurance companies would kill their campaigns . the only reason obama was elected was because he was a stooge for them.

In general, the April AP-GfK poll found that 27 percent of Americans support and 38 percent oppose the 2010 health care law

www.nbcnews.com...

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 43% of Likely U.S. Voters have a favorable opinion of the health care law, including 19% with a Very Favorable opinion. Fifty-four percent (54%) view the law unfavorably, including 37% who regard it Very Unfavorably.

www.rasmussenreports.com...

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

I' m from Belgium but fully understand you. Though don't think it goes very good here because here health care is optimal. I see out of ten people who need help (so they say) only (let"s say) five are not profiteering from the system.
I don't like Trump because I think America has to play a big role in uniting the world.

originally posted by: zandra
I don't like Trump because I think America has to play a big role in uniting the world.

The world does not want to be united.