The Pope goes after Trump for the Wall but there's walls around the Vatican

a reply to: IAMTAT

Dont know. I think thats an American right of birth. Would be interesting to find out.

Trumps wall is the biggest band-aid solution to ever be proposed. It will not address the root cause of why folks want to illegally enter the US rather than apply through legal and official channels.

It's like - "WOW look at how beautiful Dubai is - hmmm, I might just crash their border and go and try to live over there because this current country I'm living in is simply not doing it for me - I want to live somewhere nice and be able to support myself and my family because the government won't assist me to realize these fundamental human rights".

As for the popes comments, as seemingly hypocritical as it may appear, the fact is that his wall is not a permanent solution - giving humans a life that encourages them to stay in their native land IS the solution - and in order to do that we all have our part to play, including (but not limited to) America.

a reply to: dogstar23

Rampant polytheism, praying to strange gods (saints and virgins), gathering vast wealth. Yes these things are all so clearly of Christ, and in accordance with his message. Utter rubbish and toot.

It is no more genuine than the sort of utter nonsense peddled by televangelists, another group who orbit so close to the mouth of hell that they might as well be taking tickets. Christ requires no ordained priesthood, He requires no robes be worn in His name, nor buildings erected in which to teach His word, only that His word is taught, spread as far and as wide as possible, and that none who have need of it go without it. Everything else is an invention of man, and adds unnecessary toxicity to congregations, muddies the waters, adds impurity to the focus of the faithful, and serves only to dilute the Word, and place power in the hands of mortals.

a reply to: TrueBrit

The Pope was right, it is not a Christian thing to do, building a big wall, and ignoring the suffering of those less fortunate.

TrueBrit, here in America you don't have to go very far to find a big wall guarding the residents in their upscale neighborhoods. They build walls and gates, to keep out the riff raft and the thugs. Very few people inside those gates care one whit for the suffering of those less fortunate.

Many inside those gates will tell you they are religious, whether they are Christian our not, I don't think it makes a difference. Most claim they are following the will of God; so God, Allah, Buddha, or whatever deity they believe in and follow, is obviously telling them every man for himself.

The maltreatment of outsiders is indeed historical, and in some cases even encouraged in most religious texts.

I don't blame people for taking measures to protect themselves and their property. I don't even have issues with their wanting to isolate themselves. As long as they do not impinge on the rights and space of others, and act within the rules of the law.

The smaller the poverty gap becomes, the less caring and generous people will become. Many of the people that speak so harshly and disparagingly, of the poor and those that steal to eat, may find themselves in the same situation in the not so distant further.

"Don't judge a man until you have walker a mile in his shoes." There is much to that old adage that we need not to forget.

a reply to: IAMTAT
Probably, if the father is a citizen of the Vatican, and she gives him custody of the child.

I know. I am going straight to hell.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

One would suggest though, that it is those inside the walls who need to remember the old adage about walking in someone else's shoes. Those outside tend to have damaged shoes, those inside tend to buy a fresh pair well before they need one. I know whose feet feel better.

Can any biblical scholars help out here?

I can't find a single instance of jesus condemning the building of walls to protect from invaders.

One thing that is definitely attributed to jesus that this pope should heed though:

"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Admittedly, I like Pope Francis. I am not catholic or Christian. Personally, Trump should just acknowledge how great it is that HE is pushing so many globally to stop being PC and speak their minds!!! Honestly, I am not that much into Trump, but he does what he does best and that is make reality entertaining!

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Can any biblical scholars help out here?

I can't find a single instance of jesus condemning the building of walls to protect from invaders.

One thing that is definitely attributed to jesus that this pope should heed though:

"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Nope Jesus is very much into walls...here it the last one......

Revelations 21

10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

11 having the glory of God: her light was like unto a stone most precious, as it were a jasper stone, clear as crystal:

12 having a wall great and high; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 on the east were three gates; and on the north three gates; and on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that spake with me had for a measure a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length thereof is as great as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs: the length and the breadth and the height thereof are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, a hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.

18 And the building of the wall thereof was jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto pure glass.

19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;

20 the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the several gates was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.

23 And the city hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb.

24 And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.

25 And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there):

26 and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it:

27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Well, the walls around the Vatican were built a long, long time ago.

And when I visited the Vatican, anyone could pretty much just walk through the gate. They weren't stopping anyone because they looked Muslim.

*shrug*

I'll listen to this old hypocrite when he starts taking in some Syrian refugees to Vatican City, which he laughably scolded us on previously. Take your silly hat back to the land of make believe, with your personal security force and let us worry about our own safety.

a reply to: neoholographic

uhm... so when was that wall built?

1500's through 1600's?

Back when it was necessary to have walls to protect a city from attack.

So the question is. Are we under attack by Mexico? That we actually need to spend tens of billions of dollars to build a wall?

I don't think so.

a reply to: neoholographic

The Pope to me is like Trump................they're both overrated. What good is a wall anyway without landmines.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: neoholographic

uhm... so when was that wall built?

1500's through 1600's?

Back when it was necessary to have walls to protect a city from attack.

So the question is. Are we under attack by Mexico? That we actually need to spend tens of billions of dollars to build a wall?

I don't think so.

Invasion would be a more accurate word and walls have more than one use. They can stop both!

The question that should be asked is WHY the Pope made this statement. What was he thinking about getting involved in a US political party race (not even a general election yet). There are so many problems facing the church, including paedophilia, that this just seems the wrong focus. This is no Pope... this is just a politician in the Vatican.

Trump has made Pope Francis look like a hypocrite. It is just so disappointing for a Pope to be embroiled in the BS of American politics.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: neoholographic

So the question is. Are we under attack by Mexico? That we actually need to spend tens of billions of dollars to build a wall?

I don't think so.

Depends what you mean by attack. Illegal drugs are entering the US in alarming volumes via the southern border and in the process destroying American lives and families. In that sense America is under attack from Mexico (not Mexicans, but Mexico).

It was a stupid comment from Pope Francis. I can only assume he has skin in the game somehow, which is the real news. He has been making a few statements recently in support of the agenda of mega rich bankers and corporations. Very strange. Yet another false prophet.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: MrSpad
The walls of the Vatican were built between 847AD and 1644AD. You know back when bandits, barbarians, and armies were common. Trying to compare that to building a wall (however completely ineffective) to keep out people looking for better lives in 2016 is beyond silly.

So is ISIS looking for a better life here or are they on the level of "bandits, barbarians, and armies"? Granted, there are people who are looking for a better life, the majority not legally. ISIS and terrorists are not in the "better life" category.

What does this have to so with ISIS? ISIS, nor any terrorist is not going Mexico to then try and slip across the US border. They get a fake passport and fly right in, maybe even first class. Because the billions of dollars and 28.000 border agents are busy stopping lawn worker, dish washers and construction workers from crossing the southern border looking for work instead of using that money to put in a better system of detecting false passports and the people who use them.

"ISIS Says, “The US-Mexican Border Is Now Open,” - Plan Crossing Into The US Through It"
freedomoutpost.com...

"Online posts show ISIS eyeing Mexican border, says law enforcement bulletin"
www.foxnews.com...

"Report: 4 ISIS Terrorists Caught at Southern Border in 36 Hrs"
insider.foxnews.com...

originally posted by: UKTruth
The question that should be asked is WHY the Pope made this statement. What was he thinking about getting involved in a US political party race (not even a general election yet). There are so many problems facing the church, including paedophilia, that this just seems the wrong focus. This is no Pope... this is just a politician in the Vatican.

Trump has made Pope Francis look like a hypocrite. It is just so disappointing for a Pope to be embroiled in the BS of American politics.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I cannot help but think this is media asking a specific question to the pope to ensure they could gain a response that they could run with. Seriously, the Pope is human and the media is known for hyper-inflating a simple response into something twisted. We all know the Pope main message is supposed to be about peace and brotherhood...it would be easy to trick him into making a comment and be able to run with it. Him saying a wall is not a very Christian idea is obvious for one in his position.

originally posted by: MrSpad
Trying to compare that to building a wall (however completely ineffective) to keep out people looking for better lives in 2016 is beyond silly.

Painting everyone crossing the border as just "people looking for better lives" is kinda silly in it's own right. What about the other element? Just about every problem on our southern border can be attributed to the cartel's. I see no problem locking the back door if the neighbors are violent murderous thugs. They make most of their profit from drug and people smuggling. To continue to allow them to operate is actually going to hurt more innocent people in the long run...
But walls are bad and oppressive right?...

Im going to be as kind as possible to the pope here. Mind your own business and butt out of another countries affairs. If you want to open up up to everyone allow people access to the vaticans secret vaults then you might have the moral high ground.