Survival: Self-Defence using Wing Chun

Oh, and up until the Dog Brothers insisted on using real fighting and real actual hitting in escrima, IT was stage fighting.

What BL did in Enter the Dragon with two sticks? Stage fighting. Very dynamic and believable and maybe HE could pull it off against an untrained person.

BUT give ANY Escrima guy a stick and put him up against a guy that is scary what will he do? Caveman strike (#1) EVERY TIME.

No twirling or sinawali or fancy-schmancy stuff.

Give an Escrima guy a baseball bat and put him up against a guy that scares him. Two-handed #1 strike. Every time. No twirling or poking... To me that's not FMA - it's just a mad/scared caveman with a bludgeon. No training needed, just fear and some brute force.

Now, some of what you see in actual fights (are there any?) of modern Escrima guys is probably less flippy-dippy and more effective, thanks to the dog brothers.

What did the original DB from Machados do when handed a stick? He got inside, threw the stick away and choked the guy out. So is Escrima effective for the vast majority of people in the street against a big scary guy? I would say no, and I've been practicing FMA since 1980.

I've trained in a few different styles

Love Kempo/Kenpo, Krav Maga and Filipino Martial Arts for Self Defense. JiuJitsu is good too, but only if you have stand up with it...You have to have some kind of hand to hand even if you're carrying a gun, because you can't always get to it. I'm a huge believer in having some knife defense/training as well. It's vital.

The goal is to stay off of the ground and once down get back on your feet as quickly/safely as possibly. The Goal is also NOT to win the fight but to just get away safely.

a reply to: Maverick7

well i already said although wing chun does have anti grappling that works its also not prevelent because the wing chun guys, due to their training, don't know about it. the same anti grappling techniques is seen in kali and silat.

it's still not "stage fighting" even if the players don't really know what they're doing. they are just doing a martial art divorced from the bottom line. again not due to any fault of the martial art but it's instructors and how that gets passed down generationally.

I think your knowledge of wing chun is limited to the Hong Kong perspective.

I agree with you amazing


Also would like to point out that traditional old school methods the old boys used to train under has been forgotten by many today

I used to do shotokan many years back as a teenager and the master who I trained with once when he was at the club had giant anvil looking conditioned hands that would allow him him do their famous reverse punch bareknuckle on anyone's skull and he wouldn't feel a thing

Mind you the state of his hands he probably had trouble holding a pen! Lol

My old TKD master Rhee Ki Ha was another uber Human but the lifetime of explosive kicking had taken a toll on his hips

Good to see the ufc1 mentioned,I bought that on vhs when it was 1st sold and was amazed no one was killed in it! Was very early days then and the ref was not fast in stopping a fight

The only true martial artist there with many years behind him won,IMO majority of the others were brawlers

a reply to: Maverick7

well even though novices see escrima and arnis, see sticks, and go 'oh that's a stick fighting art', the reality is that it isnt.

those sticks are just place holders for short swords. can you use a short sword in real life with out going to jail. nope. can learning things like range, timing and footwork to avoid a live blade being swung at you be really, really important for counter offensive skills in any martial art? yep.

that's why the stick is the foundation of the art. if you see sticks when you think of FMA that's indicative of having a low level of understanding of the art.

dog brothers are scary stick fighters. I like their programs like Die Less Often. but let's face it, no disrespect, they are stick fighting. put a live blade in their hands as intended and I bet suddenly they are using their footwork, range and largo mano skill. and, what they do would look very, very different. It would look much more like pekiti tirsia or kali Sayoc stick sparing.

you do know that the number one thing a escrimador trains is the 5 basic strikes. they train it like boxers train their fundamental strikes. it will be what's used most not all sorts of fancy moves.

that being said, a scared escrimador would maybe use a #1. he may also use a watik or jab to the face initially too. maybe even a check then number 3. I'm short I'd probably use #3.

and yes training is needed to pull of the cave man #1 strike. there's a lot of detail that will make or break you. break your wrist over too soon like a novice and ignore the 90 degree rule and if that guys armed you just broke your fingers or got them cut off. heck, even if he's not armed screwing up the details on a number 1 could cause your weapon to rebound into your self or worse have the opponents weapon break through and you getting struck by both yours and his.

umbrella blocks when understood are devastating to the opponent. and they look fancy and cool.

ive used florettes successfully in sparing, that's got some "twirling." both techniques came from the battlefield and have worked for centuries or longer on multiple continents and cultures.

siniwali. interesting topic. that weaving is usefull. it's the foundation to much of Kali's outside, split and inside empty hand entries. it was incorporated into the south east Asian martial arts concept wise by their exposure to Muslims and Persian/Indian blade work. those guys have never historically been adept at killing people ......I guess. a good example of siniwali lineage as it travelled across the continent towards the philippines would be in krabi kabong. you know that crazy double weapon weilding art that forged the thai empire, where the empty hand component of it was called muay boran. you know that art they watered down to create the sport of muay thai. guess those guys never knew what they were doing either.

nor dudes like miamoto musashi and his use of two swords. he was a theatrical fighter too. I suppose.

wait isn't siniwali often used as a way of learning the basics of espada y daga. gee guess that being handed to the Philippinos via the Spanish battlefield sword and dagger methods was for show too. guess the Spanish never killed anybody either in their history. you're right its all Hollywood bullcrap.

18 years of FMA huh?

a reply to: Maverick7

I agree, from what I've seen the wing chun anti grappling generally isn't good although there are probably some instructors that teach a functional version that works.

It's mostly crap because its rarely if ever tested outside of the class against actual grapplers that know what they're doing so it ends up being this perpetual delusion that gets reinforced. If it moves like a wing chun guy attempting wrestling it's never going to be a realistic defence against a legit wrestler.

The best way to beat a good grappler at close range is to be a better one, it's that simple.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

or just knock him out!

a reply to: BASSPLYR

There are seas of videos of people trying to do that and failing. All it is takes is a little striking knowledge and defense to not get nocked out if your opponent doesn't know grappling and has spent lots of time defending takedowns from real takedown artists.

I don't know what this guy uses in a real world fight against several opponents (except skill) but golly gee whiz he was good and triumphant ! We always tried to avoid going down in some kind of grappling event...

If he would have gone down in the video no telling what would have happened.

youtu.be...

a reply to: Whereismypassword

UFC 1 had had plenty of lifelong Martial artists pancrase, muay Thai, boxing, wrestlers, kempo karate etc. Forms go to hell when an opponent isn't afraid to get inside and you don't have the footwork to stay outside. People make fun of karate but shotokon has great distance footwork.

Of coarse if your pinned against a wall, in a crowd, in an ally, your car etc, or held or grabbed in a way magick finger locks can't break. none of that matters.

I have been in countless crowd fight situation and had people twice my size punch me at sxsw in Austin as a bouncer. I can tell you grappling works great in the real world. Especially because you can actually spar at full force without doing a lot of damage.

a reply to: 727Sky

That's a good clip,his guard is down a lot looking like a typical TKD fighter

Resolution is bad,I'm sure I saw him doing a jump spin back kick

Kept his distance,and moved about- clever fighter

His punches again looked like TKD or karate

Guess that's his main style when fighting more than one,keeps mobile and upright

All Styles have limitations, but the real limitation is to have no training whatsoever. Try a few different schools and styles and see which one you like the best.

a reply to: luthier

Yeah I do totally understand your reasoning behind grappling mate I can understand that working well with bouncers who could get charged with assault if they punched someone-punching also looks brutal lots of blood,standing KOs could have the opponent fall down and smash their head on something killing them

Best bouncers would be ones with grappling skills who can Imobilise people with bars and locks etc and apply pressure to get them out the venue in a calm manner that wouldn't cause panic to bystanders

a reply to: amazing

Spot on with the limitations

An old work mate was a 2nd Dan shotokan long time when I was blue belt TKD and we sparred a lot during the week any break time we had at work

Semi contact sparring and he never got the better of me (to start with)and I had to slow down my reverse turning kicks to his head a lot the 1st few times we sparred because he never saw them coming:-/

Didn't take him long to adjust and see this technique so I mixed in spinning back kicks to his solar plexus to keep him on his toes lol

He actually did wing Chung when he got in close as well but I always tried to remain further away

To the OP,as mentioned try out a few Martial arts clubs near you-what works for me might not work for you

mIxed martial arts (MMA) will be a nice rounded approach (depending on instructors) teaching you striking and grappling and then you can fine tune these tools to work for you In most situations you may encounter in the future

a reply to: 727Sky

Looks like TKD to me. I think it's one of those arts that is highly dependent on the school (I suppose they all are really). I've heard a lot of crap talked about TKD, but I think it can be pretty effective especially against people that are clearly not trained like in the video.

Muay Thai seems much more effective to me, especially in a clinch situation. TKD has become much more of a sport, or a way to get your kids out of the house for awhile, leading to McDojos. I think boxing is awesome, but being able to kick is pretty huge along with other strikes.

That video looked almost fake to me. I totally think if you want to be serious you should train a striking discipline, but I've only got time for one thing, so I chose BJJ. You may get punched a few times going for a takedown, but on the ground is where most fights end up anyway. Do the takedown right and the fight is over. All disciplines lack something, but I feel like BJJ is the strongest "pure" thing you can do. People say it's not good for multiple attackers, but if you're squared off with someone and his buddy tackles you to the ground all that striking ability is out the window anyway.

Honestly the best martial art seems to be avoidance and being aware.

Anyone interested in defending themselves should read "The Gift of Fear". Avoid the terrible situation and you don't have to know anything. Don't walk down that bak alley, don't engage the drunk guy talking crap.

originally posted by: 727Sky
I don't know what this guy uses in a real world fight against several opponents (except skill) but golly gee whiz he was good and triumphant ! We always tried to avoid going down in some kind of grappling event...

If he would have gone down in the video no telling what would have happened.

youtu.be...

Anyone who thinks this is a real video has:

never been in a fight
&
never watched a staged self defense demonstration


Internet based street fighting experts hang your heads in shame....posting (and not calling nonsense like this out) is what gets people stomped in real life.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Yeah watched it again and I'm pretty sure this is fake.

a reply to: Domo1

Anyone interested in defending themselves should read "The Gift of Fear". Avoid the terrible situation and you don't have to know anything. Don't walk down that bak alley, don't engage the drunk guy talking crap.

I learned wing chun for years from a few different instructors, and they all pretty much had this same message...only engage if absolutely necessary and avoid situations when possible.... its good advice...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I think it's one of the most important things you can get out of martial arts, dropping the ego. So maybe you're the sh## and can beat anyone up. Being able to beat someone's ass isn't the goal.

Love Massad Ayoob. "In The Gravest Extreme". It really made me question gun ownership. One of my worst fears is ever having to use one of my guns in self defense. There's some line that paraphrased reads "I pray you'll never have to use this, but if you do, I pray you don't miss!".

a reply to: Domo1

"I pray you'll never have to use this, but if you do, I pray you don't miss!".

'
That is pretty sound advice