Survival: Self-Defence using Wing Chun

a reply to: BASSPLYR

The aikido guy that takes the system apart and tweaks it is decent. There's a wing chun guy I've seen that does something similar to make it more effective and pisses off all the traditionalists. That kind of thinking is essential for any art to evolve and should be encoyraged. Eddie Bravo did it with BJJ too and got all kinds of hassle for it until people saw the validity of what he was doing.

There will be a time where MMA becomes stagnant too if it doesn't evolve, it's already beginning to become a style in itself which is something I hate to see. The few very high level competitors that are willing to embrace new ideas are pretty much dominating the sport.

Kali, silat and sambo are all on the bucket list but finding the time and cash to train in other things is becoming increasingly more difficult. Interesting styles though.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Holly holm did not fight Ronda Rousey as a boxer. She fought Ronda as an mma fighter. Huge difference. If holly didn't know grappling she would have lost that fight or did you miss that? She also ko'd her with a head kick. A boxer cant do that. Mote importantly she had the defensive grappling to keep her arm from being locked in the first takedown.

A boxer would be fine if you could block a leg kick or knew how to defend grappling. Guess what happens to a boxers hand in a street fight? Very broken. Ever watched bare knuckes boxing? They don't throw knock out punches. Punches in bunches. Grappling happens in street fights 99 percent of the time and definitely so in multiple attackers. It's not like a martial arts movie and a boxer would in many cases be I'll equipted without grappling knowledge. Especially after he broke his hand after the first one punch ko. A boxer and most powerful styles like muay Thai need range to throw power strikes. Also highly unlikely to happen in a street or bar fight.

I was a bouncer in 6th street in Austin. Plenty of multiple attacker situations (granted drunk frat boys). After the first guys elbow pops or eyes get poked, or a guy is choked, the others back down. Street fight different. Sure. Still put my money on grappling.

I hAd a black belt in tai kwon do as kid, studied plenty of striking. You need both. Period.

If I had to choose one or the other it would be grappling.

originally posted by: luthier
If I had to choose one or the other it would be grappling.

Same. My uncle learned and taught Tae Kwon Do before he met the Gracies in 1993. After that it was like a revelation.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You would think UFC 1 would have told people what form works best on its own.

originally posted by: luthier
You would think UFC 1 would have told people what form works best on its own.

Yeah, he was already training with them at that point, his partner Craig was the one who made the intros and was in Royce's corner at UCF 1. It just convinced the rest of us as to the efficacy.

a reply to: chr0naut

Thanks to the Python team...

Thanks. Across the ATS site, and perhaps for good reason, things were/are/were/are getting heavy. I forgot what my laugh sounded like!

According to Archer..

Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

He never went up against the Cobra Kai.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

depends on the karate style. kyokushin is not exactly Mickey mouse stuff and Okinawa te is a whole other animal. Kenpo ( although id classify it as a more hybrid of southern chinese & kuntau like moves with traditional japanese ) falls often under the karate banner too. and if you got a guy who studies real kenpo and not the mcdojo stuff hes pretty dangerous too depending.

if anything is the Dane cook of ma it would probably be something like modern wushu, or anything coming from sin Kwan te and his band of fraudsters.

hey ma aficionados of ats! wanna see something really infuriating? wanna see a guy who claims to know every style of martial arts, and even teaches all of them? wanna see him do every single one completely wrong, totally divorced from application and then pass it on as legit instruction to the clueless? I present this guy for all his cringe worthyness!

m.youtube.com...

a reply to: BASSPLYR

What about "Ninjitsu" ...? Didn't someone just make up a whole martial art around what they think real ninjas might have used?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

He might be full of sh*t but he's just so fabulous.
I believe he is a 10th generation grandmaster of minh tsing.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

damn forgot about ninjitsu. my thoughts in regards to that would be in accord with the grandmaster and eleventh Dan black belt of the Ameri-Do-Te system.
m.youtube.com...

m.youtube.com...

m.youtube.com...

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Well, I'm like a 5th dimension rainbow belt in Tae-Bo ... Billy Blanks taught me everything I need to not only stay in shape, but look awesome defending myself!

Lol people talking about bjj. It's like the gayest sport!



I have class in about an hour... Ruh roh.

Best self defense = grappling + striking disciplines. Something where you actually spar...

My pick would be bjj + Muah Thai.

Like the fencing you see in movies, which looks very effective, Wing Chun is 'stage fighting'. It's not 'real'.

Now, will a fencer who is good at stage fighting be able to beat an untrained person if you give them both a rapier? Probably. He's trained, he's got some hand-eye coordination. The untrained guy might be moderately athletic, but he'll be guessing.

Same thing with Wing Chun. It might work against an untrained person. It might work in a close up bar fight where the person uses a modified type and has trained at that exact distance with gloves and headgear. But it's essentially stage-fighting, designed specifically to beat guys who were doing Choy Li Fut back in the day.

In addition, wanna know why JKD hasn't really been represented in MMA? It's also stage fighting. It might have some elements of 'real fighting', it might have some elements based on performance.

There might be people I call 'phenoms' who are just so good at fighting, so endowed with speed or some other combination of attributes that they can pull it off. But you can't judge a MA based on a 'phenom'. That's where people get confused.

Could BL beat you with JKD? Sure. Could Mas Oyama beat you with pure Kyoshinkai? Sure. But they were phenoms.

The guy in the videos SAYS he's doing WC but he's not. He is not using the WC stance for one thing. He's also fighting 'subtly cooperative' partners. I don't think he ever shows himself against an actual opponent. There's a reason for that and that is 'subtly cooperative' moves work well up to about 80-90% speed and aggression. But they break down in actual fighting at 100%.

HTH

a reply to: Maverick7

I agree with almost all of it. That was my point with competing and hard sparring it gives you some realism.

However kyokushin was a pretty nasty competition sport in the 70's and early eighties. Far from the aikidokas and such.

a reply to: Maverick7

how do you come to the conclusion wing chun is stage fighting. cause it isnt. How'd you come to the conclusion wing chun was designed to defeat choy li fut? although theres an intense rivalry between the two, it wasnt developed to counter choi li fut. how,d you come to the conclusion jeet kun do is stage fighting and theatrical? most of modern jeet appears to be boxing, jujitsu and kali. none of those are theatrical.

wing chun is as viable as any other martial art when taught correctly. I always looked at it as Jook Lum light.

besides Si Lum Tao is a great body mechanics tutorial. I found its focus on elbow positioning very helpful in escrima for learning Redondo, abanico and a crap ton of other real world techniques.

hell one of its most classical techniques trained against the mook jong is a anti grappling technique. doubtful the wing chun guys know that, because of training and all, but its got a technique that will stop a shoot style takedown cold, and it doesn't even involve sprawling. plus it sets the guy up for a puter kapala or blood choke nicely.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I got choked out about twice a week when a transitioned to judo and BJJ from highschool wrestling.

Though a guy like khabib most humans don't have a chance (at least one on one in competition)

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youtu.be...

No, best self defense...shoot the bastard...at a distance.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Maverick7

how do you come to the conclusion wing chun is stage fighting. cause it isnt. How'd you come to the conclusion wing chun was designed to defeat choy li fut? although theres an intense rivalry between the two, it wasnt developed to counter choi li fut. how,d you come to the conclusion jeet kun do is stage fighting and theatrical? most of modern jeet appears to be boxing, jujitsu and kali. none of those are theatrical.

wing chun is as viable as any other martial art when taught correctly. I always looked at it as Jook Lum light.

besides Si Lum Tao is a great body mechanics tutorial. I found its focus on elbow positioning very helpful in escrima for learning Redondo, abanico and a crap ton of other real world techniques.

hell one of its most classical techniques trained against the mook jong is a anti grappling technique. doubtful the wing chun guys know that, because of training and all, but its got a technique that will stop a shoot style takedown cold, and it doesn't even involve sprawling. plus it sets the guy up for a puter kapala or blood choke nicely.

WC anti-grappling is a joke. (sorry).

How did I come to that conclusion? You can't show me vid of a WC guy using pure WC against an actual opponent of similar skill that isn't a demo or a staged stunt. It doesn't exist.

I CAN find a lot of WC guys and JKD guys doing pure WC or JKD against a bunch of guys in a MOVIE.

Trust me, it's stage fighting. Yes it looks good, even 'effective', same as the guys fencing in Princess Bride looks good and effective. BUT IT'S NOT.

HTH