When Bob Lazar Declared Gravity As a Wave

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: A51Watcher


As to the pictures, im aware of the adage, and ive seen yours but not Lazar's, like i said just his diagrams.

Oh sorry about that, here's a frame from his footage -




and again one from mine -





And just like mine, most of the rest of his frames exhibit image distortion from gravity lensing.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Can you give any other information regarding Lazar's footage because as far as i was aware, and i could be wrong, Bob only ever presented diagrams and pictures of the alleged craft he encountered and worked within never actual pictures or video.

As to the image distortion there are a multitude of reasons images can become distorted cant really see how you can conclude "gravity lensing" is the reason.

I suppose TPTB are also responsible for Lazar being arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitution ring around 1990?

My point being the man leads a colorful life, one min he is an alleged respected academic recruited by the gov to work on anti gravity propulsion engines from another world and the next he is pleading guilty to a reduced felony pandering charge.

Not forgetting the fact that Lazar was in 2006 charged with violating the Federal Hazardous Substances Act for shipping restricted chemicals across state lines.

a reply to: A51Watcher

And just like mine, most of the rest of his frames exhibit image distortion from gravity lensing.

many eye witnesses don't report seeing blurry blobs - wouldn't the 'gravity (sic) lensing' effect be seen by eye witnesses also?

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: A51Watcher

And just like mine, most of the rest of his frames exhibit image distortion from gravity lensing.

many eye witnesses don't report seeing blurry blobs - wouldn't the 'gravity (sic) lensing' effect be seen by eye witnesses also?

Actually to the naked eye and also viewing the film at regular speed they appear to remain roughly the same shape.

Either slowing the film way down or examining it frame by frame is when the distortion of the image becomes apparent.

Watch the film I posted and at the end you can see single frames that are distorted and when these frames are run at speed they appear to be a single stable image.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: A51Watcher

Can you give any other information regarding Lazar's footage because as far as i was aware, and i could be wrong, Bob only ever presented diagrams and pictures of the alleged craft he encountered and worked within never actual pictures or video.

The video I posted earlier has Bob's video.

I suppose TPTB are also responsible for Lazar being arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitution ring around 1990?

Yes he installed a computer system for money for the brothel, one of several odd jobs he picked up trying to earn money after he lost his job at S4.

Funny how he was lured into doing that in the one small county in all of Nevada where prostitution is illegal, when it is legal in all the rest of the state.

Bob remains suspicious he was set up.

In any case I don't see what bearing that has on his employment at S4 or his truthfulness.

a reply to: A51Watcher

have you got a link to the original footage? - that vid looks heavily processed/manipulated to me

even so it's still a blurry blob

a reply to: aynock

The original footage is in the beginning of the video.

After that it is indeed heavily processed/manipulated with the processes used listed onscreen.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Well to go from working at a gooberment facility on cutting edge aviation projects possibly with extraterrestrial materials to installing a computer system for money in a brothel is not exactly a career path most people travel, just a thought.

Lets put it this way i can believe that he installed a computer system in a brothel as to his alleged claims regarding the property's of element 115 however, they are dubious at best.

Forgive me for not reading the whole thread since I last posted in it but are people really believing this video/image of a blob is something related to alien or alien tech? No one can be that gullible can they?

As far as I remember, Lazar's footage is just a point of light on a plain dark sky. The movement it caused by the camera shaking, possibly due to wind, on an unstable tripod. The shapes are just blur, nothing to do with gravity lensing, and in any case, gravity lensing of such strength would be picked up by LIGO and whomever else is looking for gravity waves.
Unless you think they no longer fly such craft? Or maybe you believe there's a massive conspiracy involving thousands of people, keeping it all secret and hidden from us?
That's not to say that there's nothing being kept from us, just that it involves a much smaller group of people.

Getting back on topic, as a few others have mentioned, Bob didn't talk about gravity waves, but said gravity itself (the force) was a wave.

originally posted by: 65536
As far as I remember, Lazar's footage is just a point of light on a plain dark sky. The movement it caused by the camera shaking, possibly due to wind, on an unstable tripod. The shapes are just blur, nothing to do with gravity lensing, and in any case, gravity lensing of such strength would be picked up by LIGO and whomever else is looking for gravity waves.

The reason the movement blur explanation does not work is - there are several segments in the video where the craft is hovering dead still, literally no deviation of position in 100's of frames, which still exhibit varied shape distortion frame to frame.

Also video taken shortly before the sighting clearly demonstrates he had a tripod.


The various localized effects inside the gravity distortion field also appear to include exemption from the laws of mass and speed as well.

originally posted by: A51Watcher

originally posted by: 65536
As far as I remember, Lazar's footage is just a point of light on a plain dark sky. The movement it caused by the camera shaking, possibly due to wind, on an unstable tripod. The shapes are just blur, nothing to do with gravity lensing, and in any case, gravity lensing of such strength would be picked up by LIGO and whomever else is looking for gravity waves.

The reason the movement blur explanation does not work is - there are several segments in the video where the craft is hovering dead still, literally no deviation of position in 100's of frames, which still exhibit varied shape distortion frame to frame.

The various localized effects inside the gravity distortion field also appear to include exemption from the laws of mass and speed as well.

Depending on the method used to enlarge the image frame, digital enlargements could be blurry due to pixel interpolation.

Non-interpolated would lead to blocky pixelization; interpolated would lead to the object having soft "blurred" edges.

EDIT TO ADD EXAMPLES:
This is the same image enlarged with two different methods:

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: A51Watcher

originally posted by: 65536
As far as I remember, Lazar's footage is just a point of light on a plain dark sky. The movement it caused by the camera shaking, possibly due to wind, on an unstable tripod. The shapes are just blur, nothing to do with gravity lensing, and in any case, gravity lensing of such strength would be picked up by LIGO and whomever else is looking for gravity waves.

The reason the movement blur explanation does not work is - there are several segments in the video where the craft is hovering dead still, literally no deviation of position in 100's of frames, which still exhibit varied shape distortion frame to frame.

The various localized effects inside the gravity distortion field also appear to include exemption from the laws of mass and speed as well.

Depending on the method used to enlarge the image frame, digital enlargements could be blurry due to pixel interpolation.

Non-interpolated would lead to blocky pixelization; interpolated would lead to the object having soft "blurred" edges.

EDIT TO ADD EXAMPLES:
This is the same image enlarged with two different methods:

" which still exhibit (radical) varied shape distortion frame to frame."


Same interpolation all frames.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

... and it's not a dichotomy between either wave or particle. There are both at the same time.

... and these aren't waves that make up gravity, they are waves IN gravity.

Lazar didn't get 115 right either.

The whole "He didn't get 115" right argument is so hilarious. First of all, what they called 115 might be different than what we made as 115. Second of all, if we made 115 and we can't stabilize it, we can't learn it's properties. There is a fundamental difference between a man made unstable element and a potential element from the future/advanced lifeform that has been stabilized using technology unavailable to us now.

The atomic number of an element, in this case, 115 -- just specifies how many protons are in the nuclues of the atom. That's all it specifies. It doesn't specify any other property of the element or it's derivatives, such as a stable isotope of that element which can have totally different properties.

And be that as it may, the 115 we've made is a super heavy element that behaves unlike other super heavy elements, it's actual behavioral properties are more similar to elements as light as nitrogen and phosphorous. For reference the Atomic number of Phosphorous is 15 and Nitrogen's is 7. 115's is 115. So it's a super heavy element that behaves like an element that is literally as light as air. Strange right? Yup, but true. So the short answer is -- we don't understand 115 at all yet, so how can you say Lazar is wrong about it?

A pnictogen[1] /ˈnɪktədʒᵻn/ is one of the chemical elements in group 15 of the periodic table. This group is also known as the nitrogen family. It consists of the elements nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), arsenic (As), antimony (Sb), bismuth (Bi), and perhaps also the chemically uncharacterized synthetic element ununpentium (Uup) also known as Element 115.

Then there is also this;

The isotope 291Uup is especially interesting as it has only one neutron more than the heaviest known ununpentium isotope, 290Uup. It could plausibly be synthesized as the daughter of ununseptium-295, which in turn could be made from the reaction 249Bk(48Ca,2n)295Uus.[21] Calculations show that it may have a significant electron capture or positron emission decay mode in addition to alpha decaying and also have a relatively long half-life of several seconds. This would produce 291Fl, 291Uut, and finally 291Cn which is expected to be in the middle of the island of stability and have a half-life of about 1200 years, affording the most likely hope of reaching the middle of the island using current technology. Possible drawbacks are that the cross section of the production reaction of 295Uus is expected to be low and the decay properties of superheavy nuclei this close to the line of beta stability are largely unexplored.[21]

Scientists believe there is a 112 isotope with a half life of 1,200 YEARS and it absolutely has potential to be possible to synthesize but we only know this because of the discovery of 115, and it can only be done with 117. The half-life of 112 is 26 seconds, so also an element we cannot yet stabilize, but through the use of 117, yes -- I said 117, we will eventually be able to. Previously it was thought impossible to produce a stable version of 112 until the discovery of 115. So 112 was in the same position 115 is in now, except we now have a working theory on how to produce a stable version of it that will last a millennium.

In other words, it's impossible at this stage to say Lazar is wrong, outright -- because almost certainly the future will bring us a stable version of 115, the same way it's about to bring us a stable version of 112 which was previously thought to also be impossible.

originally posted by: SRPrime

In other words, it's impossible at this stage to say Lazar is wrong, outright...

But what makes Lazar "right" about element 115?

People point to Lazar making mention of element 115 back in the 1980s (decades prior to its existence being confirmed by science) as hard evidence that he knows something. However, how is it evidence?

Their argument is "Aha! Lazar knew about element 115 before science confirmed it; therefore Lazar must be telling the truth!". However, that argument isn't logical, because element 115 was predicted long before Lazar.

Maybe element 115 was not confirmed by science to exist when Lazar first made mention of it, but even back then mainstream science predicted the existence of element 115. Lazar was by far NOT the first person to discuss the existence of element 115. As people mentioned above, high school textbooks had placeholders in the periodic table for element 115, because science knew that it probably did exist.

Lazar making mention of it is not evidence that he knew secret technology.

-- because almost certainly the future will bring us a stable version of 115, the same way it's about to bring us a stable version of 112 which was previously thought to also be impossible...

The idea of "islands of stability" for thought-to-be unstable elements also predates Lazar's original story. It hasn't been "thought to be impossible" for a long time now.

a reply to: bananasam

Dont know that that proves anything because ever since I was a high school kid I believed that gravity waves existed and thought the graviton particle theory of gravity was incorrect.

originally posted by: A51Watcher

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: A51Watcher

Oh dear, so Bob turned out to be correct in his assertion

No. Bob did not turn out to be correct. It has not been shown that gravity is a wave.

Call it a lucky guess all you want, but long before the recent confirmation that gravity is indeed a wave, he clearly stated that the competing theory of 'alleged subatomic particles called gravitons' was bogus and in fact that the correct theory was that gravity is a wave.

I'm sure you're familiar with the video clip, and he turned out to be correct.


Gravity as a wave has been peer reviewed. Good enough for me but of course we'll all wait for you to peer review it with your own experiments.

eta -

Yeah I know -

The thing is, this thread is a claim that the measurement of gravity waves somehow validates Lazar's claims. It doesn't.

Errrmmm.. a measurement of something he claimed to be fact kinda does.

Good thing he didn't guess gravitons huh?


p.s. Perhaps you would have been happier if he had used the terminology gravity behaves as a wave.

Then again maybe not.

Everyone who seems to think Lazar was right is confirmation biasing right over the actual facts. Lazar said there were TWO gravity forces, A and B. He said the macro version was different from the subatomic version and then he went on to describe the subatomic version and he just copied what we know to be THE STRONG FORCE.
Science has not even come near to verifying this "2-gravities, strong-force-is-really-gravity-B nonsense.

Gravity may very well still be quantized (have a particle nature) but it doesn't matter, Lazar was so far off with his description and it made so little sense that no one can remember what the heck he was saying beyond "wave".
He confused everyone with so much nonsense that some people think the gravity wave discovery actually relates to what he was saying. He said gravity B was an extremely SHORT RANGE FORCE, smaller than a neutron/proton, not a giant wave that is 5 billion light years wide. He just switched the strong force with gravity B and took out the "particle" part of the particle/wave nature of it.
He was not science literate enough to make up a half way decent idea.

Then there is the element 115 that has magic properties in his version...

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

... and it's not a dichotomy between either wave or particle. There are both at the same time.

... and these aren't waves that make up gravity, they are waves IN gravity.

Lazar didn't get 115 right either.

The whole "He didn't get 115" right argument is so hilarious. First of all, what they called 115 might be different than what we made as 115. Second of all, if we made 115 and we can't stabilize it, we can't learn it's properties. There is a fundamental difference between a man made unstable element and a potential element from the future/advanced lifeform that has been stabilized using technology unavailable to us now.

The atomic number of an element, in this case, 115 -- just specifies how many protons are in the nuclues of the atom. That's all it specifies. It doesn't specify any other property of the element or it's derivatives, such as a stable isotope of that element which can have totally different properties.

And be that as it may, the 115 we've made is a super heavy element that behaves unlike other super heavy elements, it's actual behavioral properties are more similar to elements as light as nitrogen and phosphorous. For reference the Atomic number of Phosphorous is 15 and Nitrogen's is 7. 115's is 115. So it's a super heavy element that behaves like an element that is literally as light as air. Strange right? Yup, but true. So the short answer is -- we don't understand 115 at all yet, so how can you say Lazar is wrong about it?

A pnictogen[1] /ˈnɪktədʒᵻn/ is one of the chemical elements in group 15 of the periodic table. This group is also known as the nitrogen family. It consists of the elements nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), arsenic (As), antimony (Sb), bismuth (Bi), and perhaps also the chemically uncharacterized synthetic element ununpentium (Uup) also known as Element 115.

Then there is also this;

The isotope 291Uup is especially interesting as it has only one neutron more than the heaviest known ununpentium isotope, 290Uup. It could plausibly be synthesized as the daughter of ununseptium-295, which in turn could be made from the reaction 249Bk(48Ca,2n)295Uus.[21] Calculations show that it may have a significant electron capture or positron emission decay mode in addition to alpha decaying and also have a relatively long half-life of several seconds. This would produce 291Fl, 291Uut, and finally 291Cn which is expected to be in the middle of the island of stability and have a half-life of about 1200 years, affording the most likely hope of reaching the middle of the island using current technology. Possible drawbacks are that the cross section of the production reaction of 295Uus is expected to be low and the decay properties of superheavy nuclei this close to the line of beta stability are largely unexplored.[21]

Scientists believe there is a 112 isotope with a half life of 1,200 YEARS and it absolutely has potential to be possible to synthesize but we only know this because of the discovery of 115, and it can only be done with 117. The half-life of 112 is 26 seconds, so also an element we cannot yet stabilize, but through the use of 117, yes -- I said 117, we will eventually be able to. Previously it was thought impossible to produce a stable version of 112 until the discovery of 115. So 112 was in the same position 115 is in now, except we now have a working theory on how to produce a stable version of it that will last a millennium.

In other words, it's impossible at this stage to say Lazar is wrong, outright -- because almost certainly the future will bring us a stable version of 115, the same way it's about to bring us a stable version of 112 which was previously thought to also be impossible.

You are going to have to provide links to all that 115, 116 and 117 nonsense you just spouted. Because you are talking out your blowhole my friend.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

... and it's not a dichotomy between either wave or particle. There are both at the same time.

... and these aren't waves that make up gravity, they are waves IN gravity.

Lazar didn't get 115 right either.

Actually they are waves IN space-time not waves in gravity. I figured if you are going to correct someone you might as well be correct when doing it.

By the way EVERYTHING is inevitable once it is detected.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

... and it's not a dichotomy between either wave or particle. There are both at the same time.

... and these aren't waves that make up gravity, they are waves IN gravity.

Lazar didn't get 115 right either.

Actually they are waves IN space-time not waves in gravity. I figured if you are going to correct someone you might as well be correct when doing it.

By the way EVERYTHING is inevitable once it is detected.

Fair enough, but gravity is distortion of space-time, so I wasn't actually incorrect.

Gravity waves were/are a prediction of general relativity. Since all other aspects of GR are proven with high confidence, the detection of gravity waves was seen as something inevitable, well prior to detection.