Sanders Verses Trump, Lets Do This!

a reply to: DBCowboy

When is the last time either party compromised? Those days are gone.

If Sanders could do anything about the private campaign financing he would have done more than any president in a long time.

Besides I would rather know what the plan is then be bamboozled by someone who calls themselves a conservative. Guess who else wants universal healthcare?

But yeah we are screwed either way for sure. Thats because people who actually do sh.. Don't want to be president. I would love a good middle independent who can inspire the public. Like Elon Musk or something. Someone with a little vision.

a reply to: DBCowboy

If you have made millions without exploiting someone else ever then congratulations, you're a successful capitalist & an egalitarian. Unfortunately, most millionaires do so at the expense of others just to satisfy an unnecessary greed.
If you're not a millionaire, then you are just as enslaved as most but somehow they've convinced you you're one of them.

If you're gross income went up after a sanders presidency would you be man enough to come on ATS & admit it?

a reply to: jhn7537

Hehehe.

It prob doesn't matter they found secret service guys with weed in the Whitehouse recently I think.

I just read a book from a political advisor who said he first did coke in the Whitehouse under Reagan. Yes Reagan. The war on drugs guy.

You see, I pay attention to taxes and fiscal issues during a campaign. Abortion/LGBT/Racism/Minimum Wage...these are all fringe issues. You need to find someone who does not look to special interest groups for decisions. Someone who wants to cut spending and we could Across the board. Too much going out and it is used as an excuse to promise more.

Free Healthcare from more taxes is a dream. How about when I file, you take out 500 dollars for my healthcare from my refund. This way I can decide what I want to do with my money until I file for the money that is really mine, it is not a refund. It is YOUR money. If I opt out it is still less than 10 bucks a week....a few less coffees.

122 million taxpayers.
61 billion dollars.

A start but you leave it up to the citizen.

Now, you take Bernies plan. He wants to shift responsibility to you AND your employer.

122 Million taxpayers. Average Salary of 45k in the US last year. he wants 2% from you and 6 from the Employer.
439 billion dollars. 329 billion in taxes from companies. You think there will not be layoffs???

This is just Payroll Taxes for the employee AND the employer. Do you think healthcare companies will disappear. This is to have the government administrate, not provide. It is a waste. UNUM..BCBS...they are not going anywhere.

a reply to: DBCowboy

You would rather pay hundreds of dollars toward health care premiums per month including co-pays rather than pay a small percentage increase on taxes? Once everything is calculated, in the end you would be paying much more in monthly premiums and co-pays than you would be in the form of taxes. All these projected tax charts are scare tactics focused on reducing support for Sanders. Until the complete plan is laid out, congress and the American public will have to decide if it's worth it. It's not like Sanders will be able to pass something this big with an executive order!

In addition, I don't know if you have kids in college, but the defaults on student college loans alone will cause the U.S. economy to collapse. Education in this country should be a top priority. It's what makes or breaks a strong economy. Without ingenuity, creativity, and a competent work force, a country will have no influence nor be able to compete in a world economy.

Unless your employer is paying your premiums, or your sitting on a mountain of money, I can't see where a small increase in taxes combined with making corporations start paying their fair share toward taxes and education is really a huge burden on your pocket book. The majority of Americans are not in the financial position to pay outrageous healthcare premiums, high prescriptions costs, pay for education loans equivalent to small mortgages, and than at the same time pay for their monthly bills and mortgage. The middle class is declining so less and less people can't even make ends meet.

originally posted by: matafuchs
You see, I pay attention to taxes and fiscal issues during a campaign. Abortion/LGBT/Racism/Minimum Wage...these are all fringe issues. You need to find someone who does not look to special interest groups for decisions.

Civil/Equal Rights is Special Interest?

Taxes/Tax Breaks ----- to get those that you can only get if you're legally married ---- you must first be able to get legally married.

a reply to: Annee

Luckily that's already a supreme court ruling. It would take an awful lot to undo that. In other words it ain't happening.

In truth, I would never vote for Trump because government would grow too much, in the worst way. Military spending, wall spending, more potential bailouts (that Trump supported), more potential stimulus packages (that Trump supported), the amount of money and severely overreaching surveillance (scary) that would have to happen in order to sweep through the population and remove the 'undesirables', robbing us of our freedoms (Patriot Act x10). The fact that Trump tries to 'grow' everything in his life should give everyone pause. And once he realizes that the USA isn't a business, there's no 'bankruptcy' rip-cord that he can pull.

And all of that would cost way more than healthcare for our citizens would with substantially less benefit (actually harming us).

That said, there's other spending issues that haven't been discussed yet. Trump want's to repeal the ACA and replace it with something else… which who knows what that is and how much that would cost. So there's that too.

The biggest problem is that he has backers who say they want to reduce government and then will turn right around and vote for the exact opposite idea. His tax plan still favors the rich, so who do you think is gonna end up paying for Trumps overspending? China? I'm afraid not. Trumps pals don't want to pay anything more, and already control everything, just like that 'outsider', Trump. You think he's going give power to the people all of a sudden? Unlikely.

Trump will grow government, in the scariest kind of way. Big brother 2016!

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yeah, um. . . what's the upside to Sanders?

He's not Trump.

Tell you what, if Trump is going to grow government bigger than socialist-Sanders and tax me even more than Comrade Bernie, I'll change my vote.

Tell you what, once you actually read Bernie's policies and quit stating the same false statements, let me know and and we can have a constructive debate.

Quick question.

Will taxes go up under a Sanders presidency?

Taxes are going to go up no matter who gets elected. This is one area I completely ignore during campaigning.

Now, if a candidate comes forth with a realistic plan to make the way we use taxes more efficient and not bogged down in red tape bureaucracy --- let me know.

Is Trump or Cruz calling for an increase in taxes?

Is Trump or Cruz calling for making government bigger?

While you are correct that nothing much will change, I can't get behind anyone who openly states that I'm going to be poorer if only I support them.

But while you may get an increase in taxes, you will be spending less out of pocket money in the long run.
Also, Brenie's plans reach a lot deeper than an increase in taxes.

As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

You know, like being treated as an important member of Earth and not some animal that must sink or swim.

Here we are in 2016, cloning and exploring and reaching the highest peaks in all areas of science. And we live in a world where the supposedly greatest nation on this planet refuses to provide through the taxes of its hard working citizens, universal healthcare, housing, higher education and food for all that need it.

WTF?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yeah, um. . . what's the upside to Sanders?

He's not Trump.

Tell you what, if Trump is going to grow government bigger than socialist-Sanders and tax me even more than Comrade Bernie, I'll change my vote.

Tell you what, once you actually read Bernie's policies and quit stating the same false statements, let me know and and we can have a constructive debate.

Quick question.

Will taxes go up under a Sanders presidency?

Taxes are going to go up no matter who gets elected. This is one area I completely ignore during campaigning.

Now, if a candidate comes forth with a realistic plan to make the way we use taxes more efficient and not bogged down in red tape bureaucracy --- let me know.

Is Trump or Cruz calling for an increase in taxes?

Is Trump or Cruz calling for making government bigger?

While you are correct that nothing much will change, I can't get behind anyone who openly states that I'm going to be poorer if only I support them.

Did I say they were calling for tax increase?

YOU said taxes are going to go up regardless of who wins.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

No matter if the candidate is promising lower or no increase.

Campaign promises on taxes is worthless.

a reply to: WeRpeons

You must have missed my post where I said this;

"Imagine you want to go to the store for food. Instead, I come in, take your wallet, buy what I think you should eat, spend what I think you should spend and give you food that you may or may not like or want.

In return, I want you to thank me for removing your freedom to choose what you want, eat what you want, eat when you want, and spend what you want."

That's just my impression and my opinion on the subject.

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

You can't guarantee that, you can't even dictate what my cost of living or lifestyle should be.

For me, real freedom is the ability to self-determine. And definitely not have government choose for me.


The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

And here we are, arguing to giving a corrupt government even more than they already take.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: WeRpeons

You must have missed my post where I said this;

"Imagine you want to go to the store for food. Instead, I come in, take your wallet, buy what I think you should eat, spend what I think you should spend and give you food that you may or may not like or want.

In return, I want you to thank me for removing your freedom to choose what you want, eat what you want, eat when you want, and spend what you want."

That's just my impression and my opinion on the subject.

That sounds super paranoid to me.

Have you ever been to Europe and bought some groceries? There's like all kinds of choices just like anywhere else!
And the prices seemed comparable more or less to anywhere else in the world I've been…

All the socialist countries that I've experienced seem to be pretty nice, with lots of choices and very little real poverty.
It just seems to me that a lot of people are "scared" of things that they have very little first hand experience with.

And here we are, juggling insurance providers to get the best rate so we can not have to pay super high deductibles, hopefully saving enough money to but $100/pill medication from our overpriced pharmacy providers who pay large sums of money to congress so they can continue to pull the scam and make a huge profit off of the US citizens that are forced to pay for medication from these sanctioned pharmaceutical providers only.

Game Over

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Personally I wouldn't Vote for any of them, simply because the Game it's rigged, it will always and forever remain Rigged.

I don't think Satan himself could do any worse than what's already 'been' done by those who run America.

So i Vote for Jesus Christ for President, and Some Alien from Planet X as his Vice, simply because it would take something Completely unlikely to save the US from what's happening to it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

Is there any government in the world you would consider uncorrupted?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

Is there any government in the world you would consider uncorrupted?

Nope.

Are you going to justify the corruption in the US government by pointing out that other governments are just as corrupt?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

Is there any government in the world you would consider uncorrupted?

Nope.

Are you going to justify the corruption in the US government by pointing out that other governments are just as corrupt?

Kinda what I thought.

Justify? Wouldn't I need a comparative? A model to show how it can be done right?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

Is there any government in the world you would consider uncorrupted?

Nope.

Are you going to justify the corruption in the US government by pointing out that other governments are just as corrupt?

Kinda what I thought.

Justify? Wouldn't I need a comparative? A model to show how it can be done right?

You're obfuscating.

Is the US government corrupt?

It's really a simple question.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Sanders wants bigger government.

So he's a nope for me.

They all want bigger government, Sanders is the only one that's not hiding the agenda.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

Is there any government in the world you would consider uncorrupted?

Nope.

Are you going to justify the corruption in the US government by pointing out that other governments are just as corrupt?

Kinda what I thought.

Justify? Wouldn't I need a comparative? A model to show how it can be done right?

You're obfuscating.

Is the US government corrupt?

It's really a simple question.

Of course it's corrupt, but the Donald will put things right...you'll see!!!