Finicum did not have a death wish. Mainstream media distorted the facts.

I created a thread on Robert Lavoy Finicum a few days ago, to explore who this man was that was killed in the "enforcement action" or whatever you want to call it that was orchestrated by the FBI and Oregon State Police. Over the last few days I had posted several interviews with the man, and began to notice that he did not seem to have the death wish that many of the posters commenting on this incident kept claiming. In fact, in the several interviews I have posted and quoted in that thread, he repeatedly and emphatically states that he does not have a death wish, and that he has no desire to engage in hostilities with the authorities.

So, how 'bout it ATS? Can anyone on this board cite a source wherein Mr. Finicum actually says that he will not be taken alive, or that he will shoot anyone who tries to arrest him? I have yet to see video, or a print article that directly quotes him as making these statements. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. I think the media has been distorting the facts. I've seen headlines claiming that he made these claims, but the story doesn't contain a quote of him actually saying that. Prove me wrong, if you are able. I don't think you can. Even if you can produce such documentation, the fact still remains that he repeatedly and emphatically stated that he did not have a death wish, and had no wish to battle with the authorities.

LaVoy Finicum: Profile Of A Malheur Occupier
Oregon Public Broadcasting posted a piece to their website entitled LaVoy Finicum: Profile Of A Malheur Occupier. Their Think Out Loud radio show conducted a twenty four minute interview with Mr. Finicum, looks like it was on January 5th, 2016, which is also posted at this link.

At about the 22 minute mark, the interviewer(Dave Miller) asks Mr Finicum: "Are you willing to die for this cause?" To which Mr Finicum responds:

Oh I don't want to die! I have children and grandchildren! I want to go home! I want to ride, and take care of my cows, and spend time with my kids and my wife! I mean, hell that's not what I intend to do, but uh, I most certainly love freedom, and if freedom is not more valuable than life, then, do we really deserve it?

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
Now we come to the infamous tarp interview. I think this is supposed to be the one where he's made all these grim statements about how he's gonna shoot the cops and would rather die than be put in a cell, etc., etc.

Well, whadaya know? There's a lot of the reporter putting words in his mouth, and numerous attempts are made to coax threatening statements from him, but nowhere during this interview does Mr. Finicum express a desire to shoot at government officials or die for this cause. He does state that he has no desire to spend his days in a concrete box, and he does say when the interviewer asks him about the authorities pointing their guns at him 'don't point that gun at me.' He also says when the interviewer asks him about authorities taking him away, that he thinks that that is unlikely as he is armed.

No actual threats, though. No clear expression of a willingness or wish to die, either. It seems, then, that some posters may have been taking a little creative license with their assertions that he had a serious deathwish. Perhaps there are other videos where he makes these sorts of statements of intent that I haven't come across yet. If so, then I think that time will tell. The reporter doing the interview is trying like hell to get Mr. Finicum to say something mean and nasty, but it doesn't happen, at least not in this interview. It is an MSNBC product. Have a look, if you've the intestinal fortitude for it.

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
This next video interview with Mr. Finicum was recorded on January 7th, 2016, the day after the infamous tarp interview. Mr. Finicum speaks with Dena Akruri of the AJ+ youtube channel.

Transcribing from the video, I'll begin at 7:15:

Me personally I want to leave as soon as possible but I will stay as long as necessary, to help these ranchers resolve their plight, just as a neighbor, one neighbor to another neighbor; so, as long as necessary, and as soon as possible.
Dena: And you're hoping not to fire your gun?
Finicum: No, we're not...No, no, no firing guns, nobody's gonna fire their guns. I want to keep everybody safe. You know, law enforcement's lives are precious, they have family members, they have loved ones just as we do, and so there's never any need of that.

Here is an article misrepresenting what Mr. Finicum said:
Rancher killed in Oregon standoff vowed to die before going to jail
Notice the headline. Nowhere in the article is he quoted saying any such thing. He is quoted, and those quotes could be strung together to misrepresent him(as they were), but he did not "vow to die before going to jail" as the headline states. Read the article and you'll see what I mean. I don't want to quote it because I don't want to give them even that much credit. It's all (not!) there, though.

I must have just not yet come across the one or two smoking gun interviews where he makes these types of statements. Or am I right? Someone please prove me wrong, if you can.

The Robert LaVoy Finicum Thread

If he didn't have a death wish he would have not run one stop, attempted to run another stop, stayed in the car not gone for something in his pocket.
Maybe If he had done what was asked from him and not suddenly gone for something in his pocket (anything doesn't matter If a banana or a gun he still went for something) he would be still alive.
Let me ask you something, would you fire upon a person who had their hands up and then suddenly went for something? or would you wait and see If it is a banana or gun?.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

The US government and in this case the FBI have down right lied to the public through propaganda and media outlets that are experts in distorting facts and conveying only half-truths - and they rely on folks only tuning into the major networks for their collective information and never questioning the "official" story.

Still no audio released and still no "official" word from the US government - and you know that they release info pronto when stuff actually goes down that was beyond their control.

I am almost convinced that they are contriving some BS announcement, backed up by big words and legal mumbo-jumbo, to justify the state sanctioned 1st degree murder of a US citizen.

In a weird way, I can't wait for the propaganda BS they are gonna spew over this one.

Might never see or hear any better footage than what the FBI released ....
If They had anything MORE DAMNING wed have got it...ergo, my suspicions run rampant....

originally posted by: Monkeyguns
If he didn't have a death wish he would have not run one stop, attempted to run another stop, stayed in the car not gone for something in his pocket.
Maybe If he had done what was asked from him and not suddenly gone for something in his pocket (anything doesn't matter If a banana or a gun he still went for something) he would be still alive.
Let me ask you something, would you fire upon a person who had their hands up and then suddenly went for something? or would you wait and see If it is a banana or gun?.

You have no documentation quoting him directly as making any of these fatalistic statements, do you? How do you know he was reaching for a gun? If he was, how do you know that he hadn't already been fired upon or shot? Your question is based on a situation for which a clear sequence of events has not yet been established, by the way.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

He ran from one stop check.
Attempted to run another check.
Went for something on him that resulted in him being shot check.
Would you have waited to see If it was a gun or a banana before shooting?.
Heck this is so much conformation bias tbh you guys are seeing what you want to see and ignore everything else.
Well do something about it eh? instead of being internet freedom warriors.
Heck I admire the guy doing what he said he would do but 99.99% of you all will do nothing as you have always done.

originally posted by: Monkeyguns
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Went for something on him that resulted in him being shot check.

I agree. I say he went for a gunshot wound.

See how easy it is to assume?

originally posted by: Monkeyguns
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

He ran from one stop check.
Attempted to run another check.
Went for something on him that resulted in him being shot check.
Would you have waited to see If it was a gun or a banana before shooting?.
Heck this is so much conformation bias tbh you guys are seeing what you want to see and ignore everything else.
Well do something about it eh? instead of being internet freedom warriors.
Heck I admire the guy doing what he said he would do but 99.99% of you all will do nothing as you have always done.

Open your eyes.

They were fired upon before the stop. You can see the shattered back window of the truck BEFORE Lavoy swerved into the snow.

It seems to me, the way he was acting, they were all being fired upon, he tried to avoid the roadblock, caught the snow, and immediately jumped out with his hands raised, moving far away from the truck. His body language screams HEY here I am stop firing at US!

He was protecting the women in the truck, and I believe he was shot in the leg and abdomen, causing him to stagger and clutch his side ( the "reaching" motion) before he was finally shot directly in the face. His body has nine bullet wounds...

If he was going to commit suicide by cop, he would have pulled his weapon fairly quickly, and his body language just doesn't support the theory to me.

Why else would he act as erratic as he did? He wasn't a wanted murderer, or terrorist. How exactly would you handle a situation where you were being fired upon? This ain't confirmation bias, and it's not over the top to think this could happen. See Ruby Ridge etc.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

You see, if you intend to storm a federal building guns blazing, you best believe you'll be encountering law enforcement with guns. It's common sense the situation that you're getting yourself into. They knew what they were doing, they had their guns loaded, they were ready for a gun fight, they had a death wish for sure and unfortunately for them, they didn't get much of a gun fight. It was also because of their negligence and ignorance (and many on this board and in public who pushed them on), one of them lost their lives. You only have yourselves to blame.

You know I do feel sorry for LaVoy. His death is being used as a political tool now by armed chair revolutionaries to push their agenda. Once they've used up all the attention his death can bring on forums like this, LaVoy will be forgotten and we'll move onto the next hit peace (I'm thinking Hillary Clintons birth certificate is next).

a reply to: Sublimecraft

propaganda

The only propaganda here is coming from people like you, spamming this forum with threads about LaVoy, going on about a witness that really isn't an independent witness at all but associated with the militia, misconstruing what the released video shows clearly (that LaVoy avoided cops, tried to run away, and then try to reach his pockets when police got to him).

He got shot, he died, he is to blame for his actions. There were far better ways to go about this... well... protest?? revolution?? Unfortunately the militia members insisted on going about it the violent way (armed to the teeth, locked and loaded). Frankly people are moving on with their lives now, the locals are happy this entire thing is coming to an end. Stop whining, learn from this and move on.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

The US government and in this case the FBI have down right lied to the public through propaganda and media outlets that are experts in distorting facts and conveying only half-truths - and they rely on folks only tuning into the major networks for their collective information and never questioning the "official" story.

Still no audio released and still no "official" word from the US government - and you know that they release info pronto when stuff actually goes down that was beyond their control.

I am almost convinced that they are contriving some BS announcement, backed up by big words and legal mumbo-jumbo, to justify the state sanctioned 1st degree murder of a US citizen.

In a weird way, I can't wait for the propaganda BS they are gonna spew over this one.

If they release anything I wouldnt doubt if they did so on Superbowl Sunday.

Personally I think the guys occupying that building went about things in the wrong way.

That said... I havent seen anything to support the official narrative beyond a long shot video with no audio, there are multiple possible reasons for his movements after he got out of the truck, there appears to be no quoted papers/audio of him saying he wont be taken alive. (could be wrong but like the OP I haven't seen or heard them)

I guarantee if I am in the process of being stopped and suddenly bullets are hitting my truck or whizzing past me I will hit the gas and take my chances.

As already mentioned if the cops had body cameras/dash cameras and the video remotely supported the official story it would already be released... so it makes me wonder.

Personally I think after a few weeks of telling everyone how dangerous these guys are, the cops that supported the stop were so keyed up that they were going to shoot someone at the slightest provocation and the fed is having an issue trying to make it look good.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

You see, if you intend to storm a federal building guns blazing, you best believe you'll be encountering law enforcement with guns. It's common sense the situation that you're getting yourself into. They knew what they were doing, they had their guns loaded, they were ready for a gun fight, they had a death wish for sure and unfortunately for them, they didn't get much of a gun fight. It was also because of their negligence and ignorance (and many on this board and in public who pushed them on), one of them lost their lives. You only have yourselves to blame.

You know I do feel sorry for LaVoy. His death is being used as a political tool now by armed chair revolutionaries to push their agenda. Once they've used up all the attention his death can bring on forums like this, LaVoy will be forgotten and we'll move onto the next hit peace (I'm thinking Hillary Clintons birth certificate is next).

a reply to: Sublimecraft

propaganda

The only propaganda here is coming from people like you, spamming this forum with threads about LaVoy, going on about a witness that really isn't an independent witness at all but associated with the militia, misconstruing what the released video shows clearly (that LaVoy avoided cops, tried to run away, and then try to reach his pockets when police got to him).

He got shot, he died, he is to blame for his actions. There were far better ways to go about this... well... protest?? revolution?? Unfortunately the militia members insisted on going about it the violent way (armed to the teeth, locked and loaded). Frankly people are moving on with their lives now, the locals are happy this entire thing is coming to an end. Stop whining, learn from this and move on.

Who stormed where guns blazing ? What are you even talking about?

That was the most long winded response that could be boiled down to, "He got shot, deal with it"

Why even bother posting here, then? Clearly there is no discussion to be had with you.

Some of us are more interested in things like this, rather the next Trump political move...

A man who does not have a death wish simply does not instigate an armed confrontation with the police or the US government. It's really that simple. I'm surprised the whole thing ended as peacefully as it did and it was a stupid idea through and through. Just gives people who are critical of big government a bad name. Like we need that. Guy was an idiot.

a reply to: Monkeyguns

If he didn't have a death wish he would have not run one stop,

There are reasons to believe that the FBI began shooting at the Finicum vehicle at that stop, with no signs of provocation.
If you were stopping for a cop at a traffic stop and he started shooting at your car for no reason, would you try to flee if you could?
I know that I would..... Kind of the opposite of a death wish. If I had a death wish, I would get out of my car with my gun out and shoot a round in the general direction of the cops.... then keep waving it around until they shot me dead.

If you were fleeing from cops that were shooting at you without provocation and you came upon a roadblock and the cops at the roadblock are shooting at you, would you try to go around the roadblock?

Things to think about.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
A man who does not have a death wish simply does not instigate an armed confrontation with the police or the US government. It's really that simple. I'm surprised the whole thing ended as peacefully as it did and it was a stupid idea through and through. Just gives people who are critical of big government a bad name. Like we need that. Guy was an idiot.

Omfg, at least brush up on the events before making uninformed posts

LaVoy and passengers were on their way to a meeting with the Sheriff, to talk peacefully, and supposedly unarmed.

The FBI and SP AMBUSHED LaVoy. THEY INSTIGATED. With the stories the women in the truck told, it isn't hard to believe they were fired upon first, and fled out of fear.

a reply to: Monkeyguns

Well do something about it eh? instead of being internet freedom warriors.

Education and information is a vital part of every revolution. Think "Common Sense." Knowledge is power. There's strength in numbers. Mock the "internet freedom warriors" if you will, but the pen (keyboard) is mightier than the sword.

youtu.be...

Someone who refuses to comply with the orders of law enforcement during a road block stop, first by trying to escape said road block, then failing to simply keep his hands up and get down on the ground, and finally by moving his hand towards his side, either has a death wish or has bad intentions towards the law enforcement officers.

Either way, that's a recipe which will always end up going poorly for the suspect.

originally posted by: Psychonautics

LaVoy and passengers were on their way to a meeting with the Sheriff, to talk peacefully, and supposedly unarmed.

The FBI and SP AMBUSHED LaVoy. THEY INSTIGATED. With the stories the women in the truck told, it isn't hard to believe they were fired upon first, and fled out of fear.

Maybe we should just let all criminals go about their business instead of taking them into custody for their crimes? Let's take over a neighbor's home. As long as we are peaceful about taking it over by force, and illegally occupying it, we should be okay to come and go, right?

originally posted by: Psychonautics


They were fired upon before the stop. You can see the shattered back window of the truck BEFORE Lavoy swerved into the snow.

What? You are telling me those mean old cops shot at the truck after the criminal they were in the act of apprehending refused to stop and tried to power past the road blocks? Those meanies!

This guy is dead of his own volition.