Army Officer on Oregon Killing: 'This could be the First Shot of 2nd American Revolution'

a reply to: Flatfish

Hey don't give Obama any ideas.

He might do that in the big city high crime areas !!!!

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
Heh, just thought of something. What if in a slick move the BLM said "ok, we now bequeath the 1/2 square mile of property you are on back to the state of Oregon. They pull the feds out, leave the patriots staring up at the sky with nothing to shoot at, and Oregon is left to deal with the problem. They'd probably just get cold and go home. The end. No one more dies, and Oregon gets back a tiny piece of what is theirs anyways.

Absolutely not!

Why should these people get a free pass?

They have clearly broken the law and they should all face the legal consequences for their actions.

IMO, Just letting them walk away free with their guns in hand is absolutely out if the question.

It's way too late for that and all I can say is, they should have thought about that before they orchestrated this farce.

Now it's time to pay the piper!

People love to join causes because it gives them a sense of purpose and identity and everybody is in love with the romantic notion of being a revolutionary. So what is a self-styled, would-be revolutionary to do when circumstances do not actually warrant a revolution? Strong words are tossed around as if they have no meaning. Grievances are greatly exaggerated and any available recourse except armed conflict is ignored.

This BS is far more about the individual wish fulfillment than true patriotism.

There will be no "2nd Revolution" because of anything that is going on in Oregon because there is no popular support for one. The end.

Remind me again what started this all? Not paying some fee to let cattle graze? Seems a bit overblown to just be about some cows eating some grass to produce some more methane gas, or is it?

originally posted by: annalisa2016
Remind me again what started this all?

Failure of the federal government to read, and strictly adhere to, the US Constitution.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: Flatfish

Yep as much as I like rooting for the underdog and their cause is justified, it's just not going to end in sunshine and roses for these guys

They should have waited for the inevitable economic collapse before starting all this in order to rally more to their cause

Right now it's going to look like a "win" for the government and a message to anybody else thinking to dissent to not bother

I don't care what they decide to wait for, there will never be a significant number of Americans rallying behind their delusional cause.

It's self proclaimed Patriots and gun nuts like those currently in Oregon who are actually creating the anti-gun sentiment that will eventually lead to banning the very weapons these people hold dear. It's how Karma works.

a reply to: annalisa2016

Something to do with some ranchers doing a controlled burn to stop a fire burning their land and they inadvertently burned state owned land that was already on fire and they got charged, released, then charged again as terrorists. And how the feds are abusing people, stealing land for commercial interests like Uranium deposits etc

I'm sure somebody else can explain it better and I'm sure there's more to it in regards to the bundy's motives and their using this as an excuse for their own agenda, but if the ranchers didn't get charged as terrorists this wouldn't have happened


a reply to: Flatfish

There's plenty of people on this planet who are disillusioned with life and the current status quo but nothing has happened to effectively break the straw on the camels back to get a global revolution as of yet.

There will be no revolution.

Most people don't care and are quite happy with their lives.

A few are not and type angrily on their keyboards, a few pointlessly occupy government land.

The rest know they could never win an armed conflict with the government.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

originally posted by: annalisa2016
Remind me again what started this all?

Failure of the federal government to read, and strictly adhere to, the US Constitution.

Article 4 US Consitution
Clause 2: Property Clause
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Seems to me that specifically states that the Federal Government can and does own land. As evidenced by the fact that Congress can make rules pertaining to such land

a reply to: annalisa2016

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: annalisa2016

Something to do with some ranchers doing a controlled burn to stop a fire burning their land and they inadvertently burned state owned land that was already on fire and they got charged, released, then charged again as terrorists. And how the feds are abusing people, stealing land for commercial interests like Uranium deposits etc

I'm sure somebody else can explain it better and I'm sure there's more to it in regards to the bundy's motives and their using this as an excuse for their own agenda, but if the ranchers didn't get charged as terrorists this wouldn't have happened

I think a jury of their peers ruled that the fire they set was intentially done to destroy evidence of a poaching charge where the Bundys were accused and convicted of killing a herd of deer they felt was infringing on their grazing territory.

The jury apparently decided that they were lying when they said it was started to control invasive grasses.

But hey, we all know that when you disagree with the courts, it's perfectly acceptable to orchestrate an armed takeover of federal property in response.

Yeah right!

a reply to: Flatfish

So why were they charged under a terrorism act ?

The men were convicted of arson, but under a provision of an expansive federal law punishing terrorism. They each served prison terms that the sentencing judge thought just, only to be told by appellate judges they had to go back to serve longer.

It's not disagreeing with the courts it's disagreeing with unjust laws and rulings as far as I see it

And just what are people supposed to do to fight things like this ? Senators won't listen, courts obviously don't care and there's so much corruption in the political arena what's left to do for people who feel so strongly against it than take up arms ?

I'm not saying I support their cause or the way they've gone about it but I do support their reasoning, this was obviously their straw breaking

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: Flatfish

There's plenty of people on this planet who are disillusioned with life and the current status quo but nothing has happened to effectively break the straw on the camels back to get a global revolution as of yet.

How many is plenty?

There is not now, nor will there ever be, any substantial support for these idiots.

If anything, this type of behavior will only serve to create the national sentiment that empowers their adversaries to pass legislation to further restricts their access to guns.

The best way to lose your freedom is to abuse it.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

originally posted by: annalisa2016
Remind me again what started this all?

Failure of the federal government to read, and strictly adhere to, the US Constitution.

Which items?
This doesnt fall under Double Jeopardy , terrorism and arson being different crimes, so what items?

a reply to: TrueAmerican

'wanton execution'??
I think we need to have all the facts before we determine that was the case. Here is a FB video from one of the drivers - his account does not match the martyrdom story that the militia is pushing about LaVoy.

t.co...

a reply to: Flatfish

I'm not saying for these guys cause specifically, but eventually a revolution will come that will hopefully change the world for the better.

Well looks like the FBI are planning an incursion, the guys at the camp are phoning their families sending their farewells.

It's a shame as they've deluded themselves into thinking more militia are coming and it's the start of a second revolution

I feel so sorry for them fighting for something they've already lost now

a reply to: TrueAmerican

She knows her sh*t

The general reaction I have seen to this is, about time. These idiots have made militias a joke in the eyes of the American Public. You can claim to be standing up to the oppressive government when you are the one sending in a unwanted armed force from out of state. I think when people take the effort to send you sex toys en mass you might want reevaluate your methods.
It is bad this group did not have single person who was either not crazy or stupid that could have helped them out with a little common sense. No wonder they are completely clueless when it comes to the Constitution.

originally posted by: Discotech
Well looks like the FBI are planning an incursion, the guys at the camp are phoning their families sending their farewells.

It's a shame as they've deluded themselves into thinking more militia are coming and it's the start of a second revolution

I feel so sorry for them fighting for something they've already lost now

I'm sorry but something is very wrong about all of this, forgetting for the moment the rabid people that claim the US Government cannot own land or administer land (that's for another discussion) why would you knowingly, and wilfully put your life on the line over some grassland for cows? As I understand it the grazing fees were nominal, and not really a burden, this guy Cliven Bundy just felt he didn't have to pay it.

This has escalated into something well beyond just cows and grass but to what end?