Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: johnb

Insofar as I know, or at least deeply suspect, the original problem was that our ancestors once lived in a land of plenty in Africa, and mostly ate fruit, for which they did not have to toil.

So, not having much strife, they didn't have much in the way of a personal identity, or a 'soul'.

However when the climate got wrecked in that area, humans had to migrate and find other food sources; and along the way humans had to learn to fight and kill each other, in order to survive.

The heavy fruit diet may have suppressed the often negative effects of Testosterone, which added to the warlike tendencies coming out.

Well anyway.. the human psyche was once "whole", but became fractured into egos.

I suspect that is where the spiritual trinity came from .. body.. pre-fractured psyche and post fractured psyche.

Now in my philosophy there were/are pre-existing "spirits" (the 4 zones). After we got so messed up, how we interacted with the "spirits" changed, and in part we began creating all these distorted pictures, of the distorted psyche fragments within us, and religion was born.

Kev

a reply to: johnb

awesome observation in my opinion.

Yes, this is one of the main themes which is in some form in a lot of religions. And I think is part of the truth at least as far as "spiritual" development of individual goes. Also it is I think even a natural pattern which is common also in nature.

Yes, I think trinity is even in nature. For instance you have the sun, the moon, the earth. Or if you look at the atom. Which is made from protons, neutrons, and electrons. And I bet there a few other examples possible. Like tree, seed, fruit or family: man, woman, child etc...

Than if we go for a bit into philosophical side. We have object, subject, action or thoughts, I, meditation. etc...Or when we start meditation. It is common to relax the body, than the mind, than there is natural silence and "realization of emptiness". Also you have in general, good, bad, neutral. - + 0 etc..

I think that understanding nature can lead to understanding great deal about how divinity/creation "works" and yes maybe even insights about our other "bodies" or "vehicles" and maybe even what is "the point" to some extent. If you look at the sun, water, air what this elements are doing to nature and also other connections and combinations between them. The four basic elements are just as much "friends" as are "enemies". But that is a bit off the current flow of the thread...but I think in case if "Onnes" and the context of "trinity" is to be considered than nature should be observed.

Also we are made from natural elements after all. And earth is our body. Breath is air. also heat/fire and water. we can imply various connection which can be made about what we are doing in pure meditation and what is "happening" to the elements and how to purify ourself.

Maybe?

As above so below or vice versa.

Well at least this is how I look at the trinity and their origins in my opinion. I think this is a real deeper insight into a bit of our real nature, which is also apparent outside of us. Even outside of religion and even outside our physiology. It almost seems like universal in abstract sense.

a reply to: johnb

I've also mentioned this before, but in my personal observation, there what I call "Aboveworld", "Overworld", or as a string theorist might refer to it, "the bulk", or the 'background reality' which exists prior to the "big bang".

Now when it comes to the "big bang', which I am not a total proponent of... I think it was a bit different.. but close enough for general conversation..what interests me is this:

en.wikipedia.org...
Wikipedia
Without major changes to the Big Bang theory itself, BBN will result in mass abundances of about 75% of hydrogen-1, about 25% helium-4, about 0.01% of deuterium and helium-3, trace amounts (on the order of 10−10) of lithium, and negligible heavier elements.

This shows that there was pre-existing "order" prior to the "big bang", and that ever since then, entropy has decreased order ever since... which makes pockets of relative order like ours very interesting.. but that's another conversation.

But in any case, I reference "pre-big bang", "The Bulk", "Aboveworld","Overworld" as "Spirit" to use the spiritualists vernacular.

I've spoken at length about Soul.

Now "Body" is not as straight-forward as one might think.

I view "Body", at least in part, to be like "Boltzmann Brains" in a certain sense, from the perspective of the "eternal now" so to speak.

So from this perspective, with the Body being plugged into even timeless mechanisms, there is no need for a false dichotomy of "spiritit-ish" and "non-spiritish" stuff. There is only one stuff.

However it is not a perfect "unity" from most practical perspectives.. as there is "Overworld" and then there are pot-hole universes which glorp up like bubbles from Overworld, or as "buds" from a "tree" in a manner of speaking when seen in a certain state of mind.

So I suppose this is the "above part" of the maximum I use, "As Below, so Above".

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

I shared this comment in another thread:

"The purpose of religion is to keep people broken. A broken person can exorcise no power and is easily manipulated or controlled."

Well as a lot of folks know, I find the Abrahamic faiths the most repugnant, as there is no actual basis in reality for any of them, not even a proper mythology. And as dominant religions, global-scale horrors are done in their name.

But that's not the point of this post.

The point of this post is that even Buddhism and Yoga are chock full of control loop circuits to keep us broken.

Even Kundalini Yoga, one of the moat amazing systems, is chock full of delusion.

This is why I had to throw out nearly everything.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That is plane wrong. If you think about Christianity you would see that in their very beginning they were revolustionists. That is why so many of them got fed to lions and stuff.
Besides that the mythology contains some of the very oldest stories humans tell each other: the flood and Noah,
for example, the building of salomons temple and so on.

Besides I don't know what you're trying to say about the big bang? There are three theories:
1. singularity
2. a collapsing older universe
3. popping into existence
which one is it you see different?

a reply to: UniFinity

We had a little discussion about trinity earlier and I thought about this a bit. All important things seem to contain it. The body mind and soul. And I mean soul as in "connection to the spiritual world". The son is the body, the mind the father of thought, and the soul is where the inspiration comes from. Beautiful actually in-spired, the spirit.
Now if you look at the "lingua pura" where sun and son are almost equal, because the body needs the universe, the father needs the body and both need consciousness to be experienced.

a reply to: Peeple

From what I can tell, Christianity was mostly written by the Flavian family of Romans and shoe-horned onto a few rebellious Jews, used as stooges.

There was no rebellion. It was a very smoothly implemented power grab, which continues to this very day.

As for the "big bang", I'd prefer to discuss that another time.

Kev

a reply to: Peeple

hah, had to google lingua pura, and I like what you used to describe the connection - pure language. I think this is really great insight. I will even tell you what it is in my opinion.

It is LOVE.

and we have to figure out personally what that really means and how to express it the BEST we can in our OWN way and form, there are NO limits ... well I took your analogy a bit further with my own imagination.

In my opinion there is no need for anything, at least as far as father is concerned. surrender must always come from our side in some form like prayer, meditation or ANY other action inspired with the very best of intentions and benefit for other beings or creativity or other expressions when one can "get lost" in the moment.

it is a bit about dissolving our egoistic will and being in "natural flow", I think. And this natural flow comes naturally with silence. Also when we are doing anything we love than inner silence comes naturally. In true love there is no place for words or for you and me or things only pure emotion without ANY labels or conditions. Emotions which can merge the trinity for a short moment when we are truly in the present moment as one. What about if there was, no separation, no interference just let true love flow out all the time?

I really like the Sufi poet Rumi. In his poems I find so much love and inspiration. And your post reminded me of him becouse I think love is lingua pura and he is the best for me at describing divine love. He is magnificent and his poems are radiating out so much emotion for me.

so here are two random videos for I hope your pleasure : ) ... Just to spread some of his wisdom. A lot more of him on youtube.

a reply to: UniFinity

Do not forget the ultimate triumvirate ... yes, no ...and maybe.

All this we see around us is some form of those three "things"...

The 'maybe' portion holds all the fun.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The "turning thoughts" on their arse (especially iconic thoughts) is always a worthwhile endeavor... thinking outside of the tesseract is my own phrasing, but which ones are you thinking of?

Give an example, if you would be so kind (as I am just this side of death today as far as cognitive calorie crunching).

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The loss of the fruit all day savanna life-style was also were we lost our all day access to vitamin c, heh, and that's a large can of sick worms that was opened up (or a big problem for health, is what I meant, for non English/Baddogma speakers).

I know that's seriously off whatever topic we were skirting, but ...

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That post refined some of my own understanding of your perspective... so thanks.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The loss of the fruit all day savanna life-style was also were we lost our all day access to vitamin c, heh, and that's a large can of sick worms that was opened up (or a big problem for health, is what I meant, for non English/Baddogma speakers).

I know that's seriously off whatever topic we were skirting, but ...

Not at all.

a reply to: UniFinity

Awwwww... hugging in your general direction.

Rumi (and folks like you and other gentle "souls" heh) is a nice reminder of why I love humans ...

in general theory, anyway.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The "turning thoughts" on their arse (especially iconic thoughts) is always a worthwhile endeavor... thinking outside of the tesseract is my own phrasing, but which ones are you thinking of?

Give an example, if you would be so kind (as I am just this side of death today as far as cognitive calorie crunching).

I'd rather you gave it a try.

I've already done these:

Humans created the gods, not gods created the humans.
The purpose of spirituality is not to enlighten, but to delude.
The purpose of religion is not to find God, but to hide from Her.
The Soul is not eternal---it is exceedingly temporary.

You try some..

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Okay.. .scanning for opposite maxims... and we're looking for something better than Capt Kirk or Stuporman with beards, right?

Freedom of choice is really what scares most humans?

The universe is not "out there."

Priests were once seen as superior to pedophiles...

Physics isn't physical...

Human leaders tend to be the ones least beneficial to follow...

dunno, that's about all I got until I even out a broken sleep schedule and feed my brain...

but I braved the relatively eternal post before great ponderous thought... should be good for a participation trophy.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I know you have mentioned it before but this time something clicked.

The soul being a temporary affair shines some light on being 'born again' a part of christianity not sure on the other majors but it is/was also a major part of the esoteric societies initiation ceremonies.
Not sure on the remaining gatherer/hunters but do they not also go through a form of rebirth when they go through their manhood ceremonies using fungi and plants and often/usually guided by the village/tribal shaman/ wise one/elder.

A lie is most believable when sandwiched between truths so it makes sense that those in control would leave some truth amongst their lying control mechanisms (religions) but i digress

Back to souls - would you say that most people go through this life with just one soul and its only those who reach 'certain' states that give birth to a new one or perhaps in extreme trauma or other major events in peoples lives. Or do we all have a few through life - baby child adult (another 3-self confirming personal bias?)) although could say baby-child - teen - adult which is 4 or any other variants 1st love, 1st child but to birth a new soul i would imagine would be something you would notice in some way - although we may well see it is as something to see the doctor about (white coat or not) and therefore not really notice.

I really must go back and reread this thread from the start and see what else clicks or thoughts come to me.

a reply to: johnb

Humans are soul generating machines.

Many people only use the machine once while yet alive.

Others due to circumstances beyond their control may find it happening more than once.

Your thoughts about "coming of age" ceremonies and souls is a good one..

I don't know which people would "get a new soul entirely" though, other than a shaman
or a 'twice born".

Kev

a reply to: UniFinity

Thanks I was aware 3 is a powerful occult number but hadn't really thought about it much before.

Yes I think understanding nature or realising we are nature and therefore understanding ourselves more deeply is key.

a reply to: lostgirl

Would their not be multiple versions of Jesus or maybe one many faced Jesus depending who is seeking him?