EU shock as 'out' vote sweeps 6% ahead!

a reply to: crazyewok

Good thing? Bad thing? Depend upon who you ask thing?

I'm gonna guess the third option.

Eton? Comes from money, does he?

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: crazyewok

Good thing? Bad thing? Depend upon who you ask thing?

I'm gonna guess the third option.

Eton? Comes from money, does he?

Probably third.

He got good points and bad.

And yes he has a money back ground.

I would suggest looking at a video of him as he is a walking English Sterotype.

a reply to: seagull
He plays the role of lovable eccentric, but in reality, he's a bit of a nob, even though his intellect is in no doubt.

A colourful character, is the politest way of describing him and no one goes to Eton without a ton of money behind them.

a reply to: crazyewok

Ministry of Silly walks stereotype? 'cause if he is, I'm movin' to England just so I can vote for him...

Sorry...was watching some old, really old, Monty Python last night. It's on the brain, you might say.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: crazyewok

Ministry of Silly walks stereotype? 'cause if he is, I'm movin' to England just so I can vote for him...

Sorry...was watching some old, really old, Monty Python last night. It's on the brain, you might say.

Silly walks, silly talking and just plan looking silly

a reply to: seagull youtu.be...

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
I won't be childish, so I won't ask for evidence

How is asking for evidence to support your opinions, in any way childish? You said that UK trade to the EU would have less favorable terms compared to trade from EU to UK. That's quite a claim so I wanted to know if you have any evidence to suggest that this would be the case following a Leave vote.

But being part of a European free trade association was NOT the reason the Brits joined the EU. You were already part of the EFTA (a European Free Trade Zone, Austria, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom). EFTA later had FTA's with the EEC. So, if all you wanted had been "being part of a FTA" - you did not had have to join in 1972.

That may be true but unfortunately we DID join in 1973 and a lot of us now want out. Considering how much the EU has changed since then and the fact that a massive majority of the British people haven't had their say at all, I would suggest it is time for a referendum.

The EU does not "force" anything on anybody - it are the national parliaments that do. They individually have to agree to any law or agreement made in the EP. For some matters the requirement for an EU agreement is complete unanimity. In most areas there is a very high ‘qualified majority’ threshold. And yes, it may happen that a nation that (mostly) votes against the overwhelming majority still has to comply - such is democracy.

Try telling that to the Greeks who had a referendum against the bailouts and austerity package, to have an even more demanding austerity package forced upon them a few days after. There are a load more examples, but I think the Greek example shows how the EU is not only undemocratic, but anti-democratic.

Firstly, the entire notion of "Brits" is ridiculous: I believe you have Scots, Welsh, Norther-Irish, English and Londoners and they are totally different in their culture and even language. Still, you don't preach dissolvement of the UK, but instead cheerfully talk about "the Brits".

This is a referendum on the EU not the UK. The notion of 'Brits' is not ridiculous. I am English, British and European. It's the notion of the EU that is ridiculous.

Ay, laddy. And how about the Welsh, the Scots? And in Scotland - how about the clans, can't they decide for themselves and govern themselves? But who needs clans - can't people just decide for themselves? Actually, did you know that I'm an anarchist - and as such are all in favour of self-government? Still, any anarchist is in favour of cooperation. And cooperation sometimes involves that you put your own self-interest aside, so voluntarily give up your right on self-government.

While you were trying to be clever, you are actually saying that we are not able to govern ourselves inside the EU (just like Scotland in UK), without even realising it! _javascript:icon('')

You had ELEVEN general elections since you joined the EU. Your bodies of Government all have MANDATES. You choose them and you did so because you had trust in them (or, the least contempt with them) A mandate is valid for a certain time period. And within their mandates, Governments are free to decide what they think is in our best interest. If you don't like it, leave the UK, as that was the cradle of this strange system. So, you had plenty of opportunity (within the Law) to express your democratic right. And you still do, hence the permanent discussion about being in the EU, the UK or in the mood. Ever heard of UKIP?

So if you wanted to leave the EU in the past eleven general election you should have voted UKIP. Is that what you are saying? UKIP won the UK European elections in 2014, so surely that also suggests that we should have an EU referendum.

If you leave the EU, you will still have the very same problems you have with migrants and refugees (and the benefits of them too!), only the EU will probably close their borders to you, so the influx of British migrants onto the continent will finally stop.

Sorry but it's sounds like more scare-mongering from you. We would be outside the EU so we could adopt a points based system immigration policy, and decide/plan the numbers that we would accept. Obviously if we needed a particular skill, like engineering or medicine, then of course we would welcome more in, that's the beauty with having control of our own borders, we can be flexible to suit our own needs. The idea of other EU countries stopping any British immigration is ludicrous.

Think its pretty clear the bureaucrap Eurotards in Brussles are just stringing Camron along and there will be no "real" EU reform and deal.

UK needs out NOW!

a reply to: crazyewok

How is it clear? We'll only know whether this is true by the outputs of the current negotiations. Wait and see. Maybe you'll be dissapointed, maybe not. Who knows?

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: crazyewok

How is it clear? We'll only know whether this is true by the outputs of the current negotiations. Wait and see. Maybe you'll be dissapointed, maybe not. Who knows?

He was meant to get a deal done by the end of next month. The Eurotards in Brussels are now telling him to extend the deadline.

They are just playing there normal games. Nothing has changed in Europe.

OUT!

originally posted by: 83LibertyHow is asking for evidence to support your opinions, in any way childish?

It was, as you know, a reference to the "proof" that I was supposed to provide for something that yet has to happen (or will never happen).

That may be true but unfortunately we DID join in 1973 and a lot of us now want out.

And a lot of you still want to remain in.

Considering how much the EU has changed since then and the fact that a massive majority of the British people haven't had their say at all, I would suggest it is time for a referendum.

It will be held, before the end of 2017. I am not against it. I'm not even against the UK leaving the EU, it's entirely their decision. I merely point out the rather obvious: that you will not benefit from it at all. Also, it's simply not true that the population did not have their say in this: they had in 1975, when in a referendum 2/3 of the population voted in favour of the EU, and the UK population had a say in ELEVEN consequent elections.

Yes, there is a strong tendency to "get out". People inevitably look for a scape-goat if things go south. And alas, in the UK a lot of things DO go south: right-wing neo-liberal tendencies, on-going and very expensive participation in ME wars, a lot of the structure of English society itself - which slowly turns into a class based society again, drug abuse, poor urban environments, educational failure, poverty, the loss of traditional values, teenage pregnancy, dysfunctional families, binge drinking.. the list goes on and on. These problems are far more serious than any you think you have by being part of the EU. Actually, you're benefitting from your membership: the Brits are scooping roughly 3K£/a of EU money to every British family, money that will not be available to British families anymore if you leave.

Try telling that to the Greeks who had a referendum against the bailouts and austerity package, to have an even more demanding austerity package forced upon them a few days after. There are a load more examples, but I think the Greek example shows how the EU is not only undemocratic, but anti-democratic.

Indeed, what happened in Greece was a disgrace; you should not have a referendum if you aren't willing to deal with the consequences of the outcome. Many EU citizens would have been relieved if Greece HAD left the union, as the general sentiment is "they are only consuming OUR money and are lazy bastards that like to sit in the sun, at our costs." (not my opinion, BTW). But the Greek government had no options left and were fools to even require a referendum. They could not leave, they have profited from the EU membership like almost no other nation, are heavily in debt and the only way they'll ever have to pay back is to remain in the EU and rely on our willingness to bleed a bit more so they can recover. Had they left the EU they would not have gotten another cent from us and would quickly have degraded into a new type of third world.

So if you wanted to leave the EU in the past eleven general election you should have voted UKIP. Is that what you are saying?

Nope, I merely replied to the suggestion that your population did not have a say in these matters. They had.

Sorry but it's sounds like more scare-mongering from you.

Sigh. I'm not scare-mongering here. I'm pointing out that there actually are a lot of benefits for nations that are part of the EU. If you aren't willing to wear a safety-belt is it scare-mongering if I point out that you have a substantially higher risk of getting killed in a car accident - or is that just a fact? You decide.

We would be outside the EU so we could adopt a points based system immigration policy, and decide/plan the numbers that we would accept.

I don't believe the EU forces you to take in immigrants. Actually, I believe that currently the UK already HAS its own policies, border controls etc. So, you do not need to leave the EU for that.

Obviously if we needed a particular skill, like engineering or medicine, then of course we would welcome more in, that's the beauty with having control of our own borders, we can be flexible to suit our own needs. The idea of other EU countries stopping any British immigration is ludicrous.

Well, and of course if the EU needed particular skills, they would simply pick that part of the crop themselves and leave the rest out there, for you. It's not that simple..

a reply to: ForteanOrg
Plenty of business leaders disagree with your opinions on how the UK will survive after an 'out' vote. Your unsubstantiated opinions certainly do not influence how I shall be voting, and I look forward to the challenges of rebuilding a sovereign nation outside of any European political union.
I hope the majority think the same as I do.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Plenty of business leaders disagree with your opinions on how the UK will survive after an 'out' vote. Your unsubstantiated opinions certainly do not influence how I shall be voting, and I look forward to the challenges of rebuilding a sovereign nation outside of any European political union.
I hope the majority think the same as I do.

Even Boris thinks we will do fine.

Whatever you say about him, good or bad, he is no fool where business and the economy is concerned.


I think the Eurotards are worried that if the UK leaves it will shatter there illusion of control and when we do fine and the EU continues to sink other countrys will jump ship!

a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm confused, the Daily Mail thinks that Boris Johnson is actually a vote raiser...clearly they are asking only a very limited demographic if that's the case. A very, very limited demographic. Probably just Daily Mail readers in fact. Ewww.

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm confused, the Daily Mail thinks that Boris Johnson is actually a vote raiser...clearly they are asking only a very limited demographic if that's the case. A very, very limited demographic. Probably just Daily Mail readers in fact. Ewww.

Boris Johnson might not be the most intouch or nicest of people.

But when it comes to buisness and the economy only a biased fool would ignore what he says.

originally posted by: crazyewok
I think the Eurotards are worried that if the UK leaves it will shatter there illusion of control and when we do fine and the EU continues to sink other countrys will jump ship!

We have never been all in because we have retained the independence of our currency, and due to that independence we have had to make other compromises in order to justify our continued membership with special rules just for us. As workers, the protection we receive as members of the EU is far greater than those we receive as UK citizens alone. Employers may be better off but whether that is filtered down to the worker is a matter of contention. European subsidies are essential in some areas of the economy. Large landowners may be better off, but small scale farmers will suffer from the lack of grants that help them to manage their land sustainably. Boris represents the Sterling set, and I agree we should keep it, it is important leverage in our physical seperateness from the mainland, but not at the loss of the protections, both individual and global, that our allegiance with Europe, economically and environmentally, provides to us. The EU most definately has short comings, but we can only work to improve those by remaining in the system and in ensuring that we are proportionally represented with the EU. We cannot avoid that our alliance with Europe is important to our own security, both in terms of food and in more general terms, and our fates are tied together whether we like it or not...unless we consider the only issue to be of importance is our ability to continue to control trade via currency, that will only ever protect us for so long, and it is only a protection for some, the traders, the rest of us are just cannon fodder for when the worms turn.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm confused, the Daily Mail thinks that Boris Johnson is actually a vote raiser...clearly they are asking only a very limited demographic if that's the case. A very, very limited demographic. Probably just Daily Mail readers in fact. Ewww.

Boris Johnson might not be the most intouch or nicest of people.

But when it comes to buisness and the economy only a biased fool would ignore what he says.

Or only a biased fool who thinks business is what drives an economy would agree with him. Depends where you're standing.

a reply to: Anaana
I don't read the Daily Mail so your post is informative, but if the mighty Boris supports leaving the EU and encourages those wh support him to do the same then its all good.

*Edit*
I think he's a cock but I'll take his 'out' vote and those of his supporters any day, all good.

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm confused, the Daily Mail thinks that Boris Johnson is actually a vote raiser...clearly they are asking only a very limited demographic if that's the case. A very, very limited demographic. Probably just Daily Mail readers in fact. Ewww.

Boris Johnson might not be the most intouch or nicest of people.

But when it comes to buisness and the economy only a biased fool would ignore what he says.

Or only a biased fool who thinks business is what drives an economy would agree with him. Depends where you're standing.

?????

Business IS what drives a economy!

I mean what else does? The economy centers around money and money only comes from business?


With your lack of understanding of how economics works maybe you should consider moving to Brussels?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Anaana
I don't read the Daily Mail so your post is informative, but if the mighty Boris supports leaving the EU and encourages those wh support him to do the same then its all good.

*Edit*
I think he's a cock but I'll take his 'out' vote and those of his supporters any day, all good.

Yup he is a complete Tory cock. But hey even a cock can speak sense